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Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.

Thanks ever so much for backing us too

 legoburner wrote:
Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.

Thanks ever so much for backing us too

Congrats on 9,800 posts Lego!

 greenbay924 wrote:
Backed the game, I really like what you guys are doing, after backing a couple failed miniature kickstarters, I've learned the red flags to hunt for, and you guys seem to have put in your due diligence. I really hope this game catches on, rules seem decent, though of course some games will need to be played to make sure!

One worry I have, is trying to grab from the 40k crowd. There seems to be some parallels to where one can make the argument it's just a knock off version; cybel network vs the warp, Esperians looking like straight up IG meets Tau, and the kind of "Grimdark" feel.

I can tell they might have been inspirations, and I plan to read the novels this weekend which I'll have a much better understanding. I'm in at $90 so far, and it should be going up.

Grats again on this, it seems like an amazing idea come to reality.

Thank you! We put a huge amount of time into trying to avoid as many of the pitfalls we'd seen other Kickstarters experience. So we concentrated on plastic rather than restic or metal, made the models as multipart and customisable as possible, got all of the models designed before we went public to guarantee that we wouldn't have long delays, and tried to create as deep a universe and game as we could. It's so hard to get every last thing perfect but we feel like for a startout company we've made a pretty good attempt at it!

Obviously as I'm one of the writers I hope that you and others will find that our universe is pretty unique - you can't make a space scifi without some similarities to other things but I've lost count of the number of different influences people have compared us to so I figure that means we've done our job of creating a diverse setting (which we want to keep improving and expanding). The feedback to the novels has been very pleasing to me personally as I (and Stephen) put a lot of effort in writing them and it's pleasing that people have both enjoyed them and seen what we're trying to achieve.

Thanks for the kind words and for everybody who's supported us so far, it means a lot to our little team!

 darrkespur wrote:

 greenbay924 wrote:
Backed the game, I really like what you guys are doing, after backing a couple failed miniature kickstarters, I've learned the red flags to hunt for, and you guys seem to have put in your due diligence. I really hope this game catches on, rules seem decent, though of course some games will need to be played to make sure!

One worry I have, is trying to grab from the 40k crowd. There seems to be some parallels to where one can make the argument it's just a knock off version; cybel network vs the warp, Esperians looking like straight up IG meets Tau, and the kind of "Grimdark" feel.

I can tell they might have been inspirations, and I plan to read the novels this weekend which I'll have a much better understanding. I'm in at $90 so far, and it should be going up.

Grats again on this, it seems like an amazing idea come to reality.

Thank you! We put a huge amount of time into trying to avoid as many of the pitfalls we'd seen other Kickstarters experience. So we concentrated on plastic rather than restic or metal, made the models as multipart and customisable as possible, got all of the models designed before we went public to guarantee that we wouldn't have long delays, and tried to create as deep a universe and game as we could. It's so hard to get every last thing perfect but we feel like for a startout company we've made a pretty good attempt at it!

Obviously as I'm one of the writers I hope that you and others will find that our universe is pretty unique - you can't make a space scifi without some similarities to other things but I've lost count of the number of different influences people have compared us to so I figure that means we've done our job of creating a diverse setting (which we want to keep improving and expanding). The feedback to the novels has been very pleasing to me personally as I (and Stephen) put a lot of effort in writing them and it's pleasing that people have both enjoyed them and seen what we're trying to achieve.

Thanks for the kind words and for everybody who's supported us so far, it means a lot to our little team!

 legoburner wrote:
Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.

Thanks ever so much for backing us too

This is true, I guess there is a lot of over-lap between sci0fi universes. Still really looking forward to it, just hope I can get a couple of those scarecrow and hunter models during the KS!

 legoburner wrote:
Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.

Thanks ever so much for backing us too

I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.

 warboss wrote:


I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.

So what... welcome to sci-fi

Is there any progress with the paperback books going up for sale on your site? I've got a long train ride coming up...

 warboss wrote:


I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.

Just wanted to point out a few mistakes that you and others might be making when comparing it(source my knowledge from reading this whole thread and the first book).

The Maelstrom isn't another universe, it's a destructive explosion that one faction believes will ascend you to a higher consciousness. The Cybel tunnels from space travel remind me most of the gates in Cowboy bebop or maybe the mass effect gates. People don't travel through the maelstrom, rather are doing there best to get as far away from it as possible. The maelstrom itself does becoem accelerated if it comes into contact with a gate though.

 warboss wrote:

 legoburner wrote:
Other than the scale being in the same ballpark due to personal preference, we've worked hard to avoid any direct analogues to 40k as we want to create a distinct and individual universe that stands strong on its own. Since 40k liberally 'borrows' from so many major sci-fi franchises up to the mid 1990s, it has been a challenge! The cybel network is dramatically different from the warp, and an update in the next couple of days on the kickstarter will show you just how different they are, in both function and practice. The idea of it being a 40k crowd grab is something you really dont need to worry about - we are much more interested in people who like new universes than trying to merge in with an existing game or universe.

Thanks ever so much for backing us too

I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance. Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy? Sure, no problem. Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it? It's a bit sticky there but still fairly standard scifi stuff. Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels? Sure, no problem. Medge and 40k having a destructive other universe filled with dark energy that has tunnels used to travel through it safely but it now bleeding into the normal universe in destructive ways along with creatures that feed/exist on that energy as well as humans who worship it? That's a mass effect 3 green to 40k's blue ending. I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM) but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.

The trouble is, once you start down that route of comparing things, you can always find similarities. FTL is by far the biggest one where the need to travel between stars quickly only has a few ways that really work, at least if you look at just a one-line description. If you really want to be as broad as possible, it's basically wormholes or jump drives (which you can divide into warp, which is somehow going really really fast, and jump, which is more like a teleport using folding space). We decided to go for the cybel tunnels, which is a wormhole like network, and we linked it the dark energy that astrophysics says should be there, as this linked nicely with the idea of the Maelstrom. There's obviously other universes that have chosen to have some form of wormhole for their FTL method, but the main other way of doing it (through a FTL engine built into the ship rather than the ship accessing a physical dimension) is just as well travelled, if not more so - Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, all go down this route.

I appreciate that people could come in and say 'oh, that reminds me of 40k' when told of a couple of details. But people have also told me it reminds them of Star Wars, or Firefly, or BSG, or Mass Effect, or Alien, or a host of other universes, depending on what piece of background they home in on. At the end of the day, if you try and describe any of those universes in three paragraphs, you're going to get similarities, and also miss out on a whole bunch of things that make them great. It's not the choice of hyperdrive vs warp speed that makes those universes memorable, it's the combination of all the technology, aliens, planets, characters and stories that are told within them that combine to create something people enjoy.

We're a new universe, and inevitably people are going to compare us to other things. We just have to keep telling the stories and making the game the best we can, so that people can enjoy what we've made. It's our goal to make the depth of the whole universe good enough that people dip their toe in and want to stay. I don't know if we've achieved that yet, but we're going to keep trying, because we're passionate about what we've made. We can't make every casual viewer of our initial launch fall in love with it, but hopefully over time people will enjoy what we've created enough that people feel Maelstrom's Edge is a universe worth exploring.

legoburner wrote:Pegasus' RRP for their hexagon kit is $16 for 50 pieces (including some really tiny bits), ours is $12 for 32 pieces with no tiny bits. That puts pegasus at $0.32 per bit (including their 'gap filler' bits) and us at $0.375 for larger pieces. Our sprue is huge! Quite comparable I thought.

I wouldn't recommend the Hexagon kit. The Chem Plant and to a lesser extent the Platformer kit would be my recommendations.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:OT: Can you actually still get hold of the Pegasus Platformer or Chemical Works kits ?

if so can I get a link as I've been after the chemical works for a fair while and have not found it

(and if you can't the cost comparison is pretty irrelevant)

Don't want to get to bogged down in this, but My FLGS had them a few weeks ago. They're out of stock many places, but I wouldn't bet on them being gone for too long. The Russia import situation (these are russian products) will shake itself out in a while. If you really need one PM me and I'll direct you to an Ebay reseller who can probably source one for you. Regardless of in or out of stock status the value comparison is still valid. It's not like I can go out and pick up a Maelstrom terrain sprue right now.

I just want to be clear that I think the product is great, just not the price. $12 may be acceptable for some, but it just isn't a bargain (why else would I pay for a product on KS that's already made?) to me and if they're even more expensive post-KS, it's even less so.

I mean this in the best possible and constructive way but IMO the similarities are much more than just coincidence or shared earlier sources at a casual glance.

No problem, a lot of this is down to how little we've revealed to date unless you read the novels. I know that is a big ask for new people to do, but it is totally worth it for those who are even partially interested and we're already well in to triple figures for readers of those novels now as well.

We like to leave stuff ambiguous to encourage discussion but it is worth jumping on a few points...

Medge and 40k both have a destructive other universe filled with dangerous energy?

There is no alternate universe in Medge like the warp. The cybel network is part of our physical universe and the Maelstrom is ultimately a gigantic explosion, not the birth (or entry) of a new dimension.

Some folks worship that destructive force and other creatures feed on it?

To me, it is a religion trying to justify continued existence and create hope where everything is hopeless, though mileage varies amongst the internal team. The angels do not feed on the destructive energies, only the cybel energy that is a direct output product of the cybel tunnels. Everyone is afraid of and fleeing the Maelstrom, even the Angels.

Medge and 40k both have FTL that involves crossing over to another dimension of sorts via safe tunnels?

...ish. 40k is an alternate/mirror dimension/universe wired on emotion, MEdge is breaking in to physical tunnels of energy that extend between objects of large mass and they are just small tunnels - it does not act as a mirror image of the real galaxy, akin to some very out-there theoretical but real world physics.

I plan on pledging for the rules to support you guys (and indirectly this site in particular since I'm not a DCM)

Thanks, your support will be much appreciated and will help us make the game better for everyone!

but I can easily see someone reading the info given and thinking 40k fluff clone if they don't go any further. The casual readers/pledgers won't buy the kindle novels just to find out something more about a universe that already gives off that type of first impression; they'll just fill in the blanks and move on. I hope that you can take this in the constructive manner in which its given.

Indeed, this is a problem we've known about and realised, and we considered adjusting the presentation to mitigate any invalid comparisons at surface level perception but decided to keep things as they are on the hopes that as people are exposed to more and more of the universe, they'll see just how distinctive it is. We can be compared to elements from dozens of sci-fi universes, but overall we are one of, if not the most unique new sci-fi IPs in a long time. Our fiction and game is focused on everyone who is trying to survive rather than the specific mechanics of the Maelstrom's explosive growth or the technicalities of cybel travel (though both have detailed documents ensuring consistency amongst our authors). We are not dipping in to any alternate dimensions, we have no psychic forces or energy, and have avoided 'space magic' that does not have a believable scientific explanation behind it (though in many instances those explanations are kept out of public view, we do write them so that things remain consistent and thematic).

p.s. I know darrkespur will have replied in the time it took me to post this, so hopefully we match up

Lukez wrote:


Just wanted to point out a few mistakes that you and others might be making when comparing it(source my knowledge from reading this whole thread and the first book).

The Maelstrom isn't another universe, it's a destructive explosion that one faction believes will ascend you to a higher consciousness. The Cybel tunnels from space travel remind me most of the gates in Cowboy bebop or maybe the mass effect gates. People don't travel through the maelstrom, rather are doing there best to get as far away from it as possible. The maelstrom itself does becoem accelerated if it comes into contact with a gate though.

Exactly. It isn't the warp, at all. It is an out of control forest fire, and the fuel for its burning is matter and energy itself, it is burning away everything it touches, but it is not fuelled by demons and it is not a dark reflection of our psyches. It is not known if it is a natural event or the result of some catastrophe (though seems to be that since it originated near the capital worlds of human space, there is a lot implied there), but it is not supernatural at all from what they said. In fact, I'm not even sure there is any psychic behaviour at all in Medge. The Maelstrom is similar to cybel energy and the key is that unlike cybel (which is quite dangerous itself in its 'natural' state) it is self propagating, that is the huge problem, cybel goes boom but then that's it... maelstrom energy goes boom and boom and boom and boom. It's a tidal wave of fire that from what they can tell, will never stop until there is nothing left to burn.

As far as the Cybel tunnels, this is a wormhole mechanic, the twist is requiring large mass objects. The webway is a gateway through the warp, the tunnels go through a cybel field, but it isn't the warp, it is more like subspace that I can see. The cybel tunnels are no more similar to the webway than they are to the wormhole in DS9, the jumpgates from B5 or any other number of spacefold/warp mechanics in sci-fi. In fact, it is least like the webway as A the tunnels are not reliant or through the Maelstrom and B there is absolutely nothing psychic to do with it.

It's really being the height of superficial to say these things are like 40k to be honest. Look deeper.

I think it is also misunderstood that not every part of the galaxy is under imminent doom. A very cool part, to me, of the story is that the places further away are being forced into conflict as desperate refugees flood their worlds... do you help them? Or do you protect what you have realizing that you will never have enough to feed/shelter the constant mass of humans and aliens running away? Or maybe some kind of inbetween where you cherry-pick the best of the refugees for skill or resources and you leave the rest to die in the cold? You may not need to worry about the Maelstrom for 100 or a 1000 or 10000 years... but you do have to worry about the desperate, hungry and perhaps violent people streaming away from it at a constant rate. Like wolves running out the trees in a forest fire, hungry, scared, desperate.

The universe seems to be based on a story about what people will do to survive, what happens to your morals, your mind, your entire mentality both in regards to your own people as well as to outsiders... what happens to society during a massive natural disaster guts the heart of the capital and leadership, who takes over, who has authority? Are allies still allies? Can you count on some things staying the same?

All these things, the mix of them, this is not 40k. Is it grimdark? I guess... but only if you count walking dead or Battlestar or Dune as grimdark as it addresses similar questions in micro. But really, you are missing out if you can only see 40k'ishness here, there is a heck of a lot more to see.

I hope this is the right place to ask rules questions.

In the Maelstrom's Edge Rules Preview, it lists: 1A: Activation Discipline Check. It's example is 3 WP vs 3 ST. which is equal and causes a 4+. But which counts as the attacker and defender? Is the unit attacking the ST's to activate? or is the unit Defending against STs to activate? ((Meaning if it were 3 WP vs 6 ST Is my unit rolling 5+ or 2+? I figure it's 5+ but I'd like to get it clarified))

Secondly, on the 9th page, it shows a Model Characteristics bar on the top of the page. The graphic shows a gray line from the "MAS 2" box to "Fortitude (FOR): The number of injuries the model can sustain before it is removed as a casualty." Is this a typo? As the rules state MAS (mass) is the HP of the unit. Fortitude isn't explained.

Yakface has a more detailed explanation of Mas vs. For over here.

 Vanguard-13 wrote:
Secondly, on the 9th page, it shows a Model Characteristics bar on the top of the page. The graphic shows a gray line from the "MAS 2" box to "Fortitude (FOR): The number of injuries the model can sustain before it is removed as a casualty." Is this a typo? As the rules state MAS (mass) is the HP of the unit. Fortitude isn't explained.

It takes (#Mass) Penetrations to cause an injury, and (#Fortitude) injuries to cause a casualty. The difference between the two is that fractional injuries are discarded (i.e. if you have 2 Mass and your armour takes 1 Penetration this turn and 1 Penetration the next turn, they don't combine to cause 1 Injury, but if you have 2 Fortitude and you take 1 Injury this turn and 1 Injury next turn, they do combine to put you out of action).

 Vanguard-13 wrote:
I hope this is the right place to ask rules questions.

In the Maelstrom's Edge Rules Preview, it lists: 1A: Activation Discipline Check. It's example is 3 WP vs 3 ST. which is equal and causes a 4+. But which counts as the attacker and defender? Is the unit attacking the ST's to activate? or is the unit Defending against STs to activate? ((Meaning if it were 3 WP vs 6 ST Is my unit rolling 5+ or 2+? I figure it's 5+ but I'd like to get it clarified))

Secondly, on the 9th page, it shows a Model Characteristics bar on the top of the page. The graphic shows a gray line from the "MAS 2" box to "Fortitude (FOR): The number of injuries the model can sustain before it is removed as a casualty." Is this a typo? As the rules state MAS (mass) is the HP of the unit. Fortitude isn't explained.

yakface might correct me if I get this wrong as the rules are his baby but basically the more STs you have the harder it is to pass, so the Willpower is the attacking stat, so for 3WP vs 6ST it would be a 5+.

For the second point, we had this come up in the other thread and yakface gave a very detailed explanation: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/645537.page#7796287

Basically, mass is how hard it is to kill something in one shot, whereas fortitude is the amount you have to whittle them down. A unit of 1 mass but 6 fortitude and a unit of 6 mass and 1 fortitude take the same number of penetrating hits to kill, but the 6 mass needs to be all in one round of shooting (as if you don't get enough hits to overcome their mass nothing happens and it doesn't carry over), whilst you could kill the unit of 1 mass with 6 different attacks each hitting only once.

EDIT: Ninja'd twice!

Ah, thank you both! AlexHolker, and Janthkin.

 Vanguard-13 wrote:
I hope this is the right place to ask rules questions.
g
In the Maelstrom's Edge Rules Preview, it lists: 1A: Activation Discipline Check. It's example is 3 WP vs 3 ST. which is equal and causes a 4+. But which counts as the attacker and defender? Is the unit attacking the ST's to activate? or is the unit Defending against STs to activate? ((Meaning if it were 3 WP vs 6 ST Is my unit rolling 5+ or 2+? I figure it's 5+ but I'd like to get it clarified))

I'm sure yakface will address this better than I can. But you are correct in assuming that the check gets harder when more STs are affecting the unit making the check. It is a VS roll, but it's simply one stat VS one number (# of STs). I suppose that would make the WP stat the 'attacker' and the ST # the 'defender' as darrkespur mentioned above. The suppression mechanic wouldn't really work as intended if the check got easier to pass, the more suppression tokens got stacked on the affected unit. I hope that helps!

*edit - ninjad as well, I should leave these responses to the better informed.

No worries at all! Thanks to everyone for the explanations!

 legoburner wrote:
No problem, a lot of this is down to how little we've revealed to date unless you read the novels. I know that is a big ask for new people to do, but it is totally worth it for those who are even partially interested and we're already well in to triple figures for readers of those novels now as well.

*snip*

Indeed, this is a problem we've known about and realised, and we considered adjusting the presentation to mitigate any invalid comparisons at surface level perception but decided to keep things as they are on the hopes that as people are exposed to more and more of the universe, they'll see just how distinctive it is. We can be compared to elements from dozens of sci-fi universes, but overall we are one of, if not the most unique new sci-fi IPs in a long time. Our fiction and game is focused on everyone who is trying to survive rather than the specific mechanics of the Maelstrom's explosive growth or the technicalities of cybel travel (though both have detailed documents ensuring consistency amongst our authors). We are not dipping in to any alternate dimensions, we have no psychic forces or energy, and have avoided 'space magic' that does not have a believable scientific explanation behind it (though in many instances those explanations are kept out of public view, we do write them so that things remain consistent and thematic).

p.s. I know darrkespur will have replied in the time it took me to post this, so hopefully we match up

Thanks to you and to the others for explaining the deeper level differences. My original point though was from a surface first impression perspective and the similarities (note that I chose "similar" which is NOT a synomym for "exactly the same" for others reading the thread) that folks might get from reading some of the info. The truth may be out there (to borrow from an old tv show) but not every casual passerby will be inclined to dig for it. I don't think it is too much to give fans novels to jump inot the universe but I don't think, regardless of the quality there, that most folks will choose to take advantage of a preliminary ancillary purchase just to evaluate a much larger primary purchase. They'll simply go off of what is freely available at first glance (as is the nature of first impressions).

This next part isn't directed to Lego but rather the other respondents. You can choose to point out to someone that a tangerine is a different species of plant, 40% smaller, more sour, and easier to peel than an orange and you'd of course would be correct. Unfortunately, for someone who doesn't taste both and who has is already has a bushel of oranges, the tangerine may be similar enough to warrant a pass. You can choose to sit there safe in the certainty of your phylogenetic correctness or acknowledge the similarities on the surface that lead to that (at a deeper level erroneous) conclusion. In any case, I just wanted to give the feedback and won't belabor the point further.

That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.

BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.

But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.

It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when supplied by amply available additional facts no?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.

BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.

But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.

It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when compared against amply available additional facts no?

 MajorTom11 wrote:
That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.

BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.

But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.

It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when supplied by amply available additional facts no?

If it wasn't a 28mm squad based scifi tabletop wargame (before someone points out the differences in figure count... similar =/= the same) in addition to the backstory surface similarities, I'd agree with your food based comparison rather than mine.. but they both are "citrus" in that respect IMO. It wasn't taken as an attack but rather like a passionate bulwark defence against a perceived assault.

So long as it wasn't taken as an attack

 warboss wrote:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
That kinda assumes that we are talking oranges and tangerines here... which are subtly different. If you look even vaguely past the surface, it is far more apple vs tomato. They are both round and red.

BTW, speaking only for myself, there was no intent to make you or anyone else feel bad or like you did something wrong. Despite being demonstrably different, I suppose on the surface you are right and they do both look round and red and it needs addressing.

But in order to turn the dialogue into actually talking about the real differences, of which there are many deep changes in tone, intent and focus, it has to be pointed out that the superficial similarities are just that, superficial... and superficial in the extreme if weighted against the tropes that make up the sci-fi genre in general.

It's not wrong to have whatever impression you may have... but it's also not an attack to point out how the impression is actually misleading when supplied by amply available additional facts no?

If it wasn't a 28mm squad based scifi tabletop wargame (before someone points out the differences in figure count... similar =/= the same) in addition to the backstory surface similarities, I'd agree with your food based comparison rather than mine.. but they both are "citrus" in that respect IMO. It wasn't taken as an attack but rather like a passionate bulwark defence against an imagined assault.

I guess my opinion is if someone isn't willing to spend the relatively short amount of time to see just how different the two universes are, they probably aren't going to be in our target market, at least to begin with. We've put a lot of effort in to design a new universe (its pretty unusual to have two novels available to read even before release, for example) but if people don't want to explore that universe and actually see what it is offering, there's not much we can do other than keep trying to make what we do better. You can lead a horse to water, and all that...

The unlocked model has great rules. The rules follow the fiction and give a huge range of options, if that is the standard for future special units than I'm very excited.

I especially like the suicide bomber aspect, fits the fanatical aspect with the right rules too. Keep a model alive to use the local aspects or suicide him for the global benefit.

I'd love a hint at the bot controllers rules, hopefully he has as much of an influence on the battlefield.

Curious about the value of the Kickstarter versus buying retail at a later date.

What is the planned retail cost for the game? Right now I'm pledged for one copy which will cost me $90+shipping, so probably $100ish total. There's no difference between what I'll get in the retail box and my kickstarter pledge. Is the retail box going to cost $100? Less?

The next stretch goal will add a terrain sprue, but if it is like the first stretch goal then I'd still get it if I just bought it at retail later anyway.

I like the sound of the game and want to stay pledged, but some money issues came up so I'm not sure if actually have a good enough reason besides the good feeling of supporting the launch of the game to stay pledged since I'll get the exact same physical content.

What will the rules PDF and VIP membership for the website cost when available to purchase after the Kickstarter?

They've said they won't know what the retail cost will have to be until after the KS (as the number of units pledged for will have a impact on the volume discount costs they can get from their manufacturers)

but they have stated the KS prices will be cheaper than the eventual retail price

(although I think that's probably manufacturers recommended price rather than 20-30% discounted internet retailer price IF such retailers get the game)

so pledging now will probably save you money (especially if you normally shop at a FLGS), and break even at worse (if you only shop at high discount internet retailers)

Yeah, nothing tends to beat Miniature Market deal of the day level sales, although those don't always show up for the things we want either.

I'm probably gonna stick around for the base pledge, and if certain things are offered and not unlocked, I may see about getting those too.

Should be a bit of a cascade effect though, as more things get unlocked for adding on, more things should show up in the core set, so hopefully still quite a bit of backer cash to come.

 GrimDork wrote:
Yeah, nothing tends to beat Miniature Market deal of the day level sales, although those don't always show up for the things we want either.

I'm probably gonna stick around for the base pledge, and if certain things are offered and not unlocked, I may see about getting those too.

Should be a bit of a cascade effect though, as more things get unlocked for adding on, more things should show up in the core set, so hopefully still quite a bit of backer cash to come.

Yep, I'm waiting patient for the potential for more addons