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 Ozymandias wrote:


Look, I'm someone who didn't like the Epirian contractors based on the photos I saw. Then I was lucky enough to see the sprues in person, and all my misgivings about them (save the heads, but like I said, there is a plethora of alt heads out there so I'm not really bothered) went away. I'm not saying everyone who dislikes the models is wrong, just that my dislike of the models changed once I got to hold them and yours might too. I don't get why that is such a hard concept.

The concept isn't hard. What is problematic is the manner in which you and Gray Templar are presenting that information. You guys got to see the sprues in person and are urging others who have issues with the models to trust that they will feel the same way you did after seeing the models in person. Well that is great, except that unless others have an "in" like you two did to get a sneak preview they will have to buy based on the unflattering photos shown thus far and hope for the best. That isn't a great option for the vast majority of people who will only see these models when fulfillment occurs at the end of this year or sometime next year. Surely you can understand the push back.

It is awesome that your gaming group got a sneak preview. What about everyone else? The rest of us are left with the photos on Kickstarter and the opinions of two strangers from the internet (who may be completely biased since they apparently know people with early release samples, so both your and Gray's opinions are suspect right off the bat) to assure us that what we are being asked to buy is actually decent.

Do you see why there is resistance now?

 Theophony wrote:
, but I've gotten tactical and assault spruces which have terrible mood lines from wear.

I believe the really bad mould lines on some GW sprues are more often from misaligned or badly made moulds than from wear, as I've received brand new models with incredibly bad flash or shear.

Either way, wear showing on plastic models is going to require far, far more than a thousand shots.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Ozymandias wrote:


Look, I'm someone who didn't like the Epirian contractors based on the photos I saw. Then I was lucky enough to see the sprues in person, and all my misgivings about them (save the heads, but like I said, there is a plethora of alt heads out there so I'm not really bothered) went away. I'm not saying everyone who dislikes the models is wrong, just that my dislike of the models changed once I got to hold them and yours might too. I don't get why that is such a hard concept.

The concept isn't hard. What is problematic is the manner in which you and Gray Templar are presenting that information. You guys got to see the sprues in person and are urging others who have issues with the models to trust that they will feel the same way you did after seeing the models in person. Well that is great, except that unless others have an "in" like you two did to get a sneak preview they will have to buy based on the unflattering photos shown thus far and hope for the best. That isn't a great option for the vast majority of people who will only see these models when fulfillment occurs at the end of this year or sometime next year. Surely you can understand the push back.

It is awesome that your gaming group got a sneak preview. What about everyone else? The rest of us are left with the photos on Kickstarter and the opinions of two strangers from the internet (who may be completely biased since they apparently know people with early release samples, so both your and Gray's opinions are suspect right off the bat) to assure us that what we are being asked to buy is actually decent.

Do you see why there is resistance now?

Not really. Just don't buy it? That is an option you know. You have the information you have, the pics are in front of you. If you don't like them, and you are so unwilling to hear first hand accounts from people who have seen them in person, because they have to be biased lol... What is SAS supposed to do? Parachute sprues over the deep amazon and zimbabwe and hope some random human finds them and posts a review of them on the internet in the next couple of weeks? By that logic anyone who see's them is getting privileged treatment so they must be bought or biased.

So, assuming that is the case, then: you have the information you have, and the pics in front of you. Decide. It's totally cool not to buy. It's also ok to criticize what you don't like too even if you are not buying (assuming you won't make a habit of posting the exact same points on an hourly basis, at a certain point, that is just spam, general statement not directed at you). But being angry you haven't been convinced yet is not cool. Attacking people for saying they saw them like they are bought or privileged or both is not cool. At no point did either of them say 'I changed my mind, therefore so must you'. They just said THEY changed THEIR minds, fwiw, nothing more.

It doesn't sound like you are even on the fence above though... like zero actual room, your mind sounds pretty damned made up. If it is, what is it exactly that you are looking for here?

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


The concept isn't hard. What is problematic is the manner in which you and Gray Templar are presenting that information. You guys got to see the sprues in person and are urging others who have issues with the models to trust that they will feel the same way you did after seeing the models in person. Well that is great, except that unless others have an "in" like you two did to get a sneak preview they will have to buy based on the unflattering photos shown thus far and hope for the best. That isn't a great option for the vast majority of people who will only see these models when fulfillment occurs at the end of this year or sometime next year. Surely you can understand the push back.

It is awesome that your gaming group got a sneak preview. What about everyone else? The rest of us are left with the photos on Kickstarter and the opinions of two strangers from the internet (who may be completely biased since they apparently know people with early release samples, so both your and Gray's opinions are suspect right off the bat) to assure us that what we are being asked to buy is actually decent.

Do you see why there is resistance now?

No need to bust out the tinfoil hats. This isn't a case of "trust me, you are going to LOOOVE these models." This is a case of, "I was like you, then I saw the models and I like them a lot more now." If you don't believe me, I really couldn't care less, I'm just sharing my thoughts and opinions based on actually seeing the sprues in person. If that helps someone pull the trigger on backing, great, if not, I think I'll manage to survive. I was already backing this at the $90 level, I figured I'd just shelve the contractors and replace them with other models. Now, I'm actually more excited about them than I am the Karists.

My opinion has hardly been bought. I had fully backed long before I got to handle the sprues. It just made me even more excited about my choice to back, and was confirmation that my money will be well spent.

If people don't like the design, they don't like the design. I'm just saying that the pictures don't do the sprues justice so dismissing them off hand is a little unfair. Its not like I have any ulterior motives to get people to pledge aside from ensuring there will be a community for it.

Okay, I really like the robots, and I'm excited at the prospect of the rules, but the human figures from BOTH sides appear to be deformed at the shoulder. Both factions seem to have arms that start out some distance away from their bodies.

The details all look great. The sprues look good and it's clear that they've had a lot of work put into them, but the figures look anatomically improbable. Especially the heavily-armored guys - the tempest elites. Those guys have shoulders that are a good hand's width away from their bodies.

I'd love for someone to show me pictures that show that I'm wrong. The ones on the Kickstarter aren't filling me with hope.

 Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
We love the depth of thought over the Epirian ammo storage situation

The Epirians have two pouches, one on each leg. The magazine which slots into the bottom of the rifle is the combined energy source and caseless ammo container. The caseless ammo is driven by the Maglock mechanism, not conventional explosives, so a lot more can fit into a smaller space, and even nuts and bolts and other ferrous metal junk will fire somewhat functionally through the gun in a pinch (but with next to no accuracy of course).

Note this from the rifle description posted in the KS updates a while ago:

The caseless rounds used in the assault rifle are designed to be interchangeable with many other weapons systems including those mounted on drone units

As such, the actual reloadable bullet elements are smaller and inserted into the rear of the master magazine. The bullets run out before the energy supply, so rather than carrying more than is needed, the bullet elements of the magazine are ejected and replaced within the larger 'full' magazine itself. Because of this standardisation around a small shape, contractors and drones can resupply each other without having to reload full magazines.

Have you got any concept sketches and drawing detail of how this works? I'm such a nerd for this sort of thing and I'm sure others would be interested too!

 Spiral Arm Studios wrote:
We love the depth of thought over the Epirian ammo storage situation

The Epirians have two pouches, one on each leg. The magazine which slots into the bottom of the rifle is the combined energy source and caseless ammo container. The caseless ammo is driven by the Maglock mechanism, not conventional explosives, so a lot more can fit into a smaller space, and even nuts and bolts and other ferrous metal junk will fire somewhat functionally through the gun in a pinch (but with next to no accuracy of course).

Note this from the rifle description posted in the KS updates a while ago:

The caseless rounds used in the assault rifle are designed to be interchangeable with many other weapons systems including those mounted on drone units

As such, the actual reloadable bullet elements are smaller and inserted into the rear of the master magazine. The bullets run out before the energy supply, so rather than carrying more than is needed, the bullet elements of the magazine are ejected and replaced within the larger 'full' magazine itself. Because of this standardisation around a small shape, contractors and drones can resupply each other without having to reload full magazines.

Small projectile magazines or "stripper clips" that can be stored in the contractors leg pouches, that slot into the large combination magazine and energy cell, works for me, thanks for clearing that up.

I just want you all to know that I can be bought. Just putting that out there.

 agnosto wrote:
I just want you all to know that I can be bought. Just putting that out there.

There are words I'm not allowed to use in a public setting for people like that

 malfred wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I just want you all to know that I can be bought. Just putting that out there.

There are words I'm not allowed to use in a public setting for people like that

"Showing entrepreneurial spirit"?

We added this video to the Kickstarter page a couple of days ago, but had so much content to promote that we didnt get around to posting this until just now!




This video explains the concepts which make Maelstrom's Edge unique and distinctive. The content is similar to the overview PDF we put out previously, but is a lot clearer and easier to digest with visual queues!

Today's update on Kickstarter has some important information for those on $1 pledges and those interested in terrain-only pledges - due to the way Kickstarter works, we can only send our post-Kickstarter survey to those who have selected a pledge, so we've added a $1 placeholder pledge for this purpose.

If you've joined the Kickstarter but not selected a pledge, please use this $1 pledge level to ensure we can contact you to make sure you get what you want.

We've also got some sneak peaks at some spaceship concept art! Thanks again to everyone who's supported us so far.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/medge/maelstroms-edge-a-next-gen-sci-fi-miniatures-warga/posts/1225939

 malfred wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I just want you all to know that I can be bought. Just putting that out there.

There are words I'm not allowed to use in a public setting for people like that

Hey, I'll be a corporate shill for the right reward.

And, I've been called worse by better people Malfred.

Why is there spaceship concept art? Is there already going to be a spaceship game based in this universe?

They don't have plans for one yet, they're just background fluff and artwork. But in 5 years time who knows?

I'm all over it.

I just want to know if we can start talking about the 28mm Heavy Gear/ Mech game with these guys in it.

Questions- Are there going to be vehicles?

Is there an interactive website, where we are supposed to track the Maelstrom, get scenarios, get modeling tips, plans etc. for the game?

How many other aliens are we looking at in game?

How does production/ staying power look for this game? Are you just going to crank out a couple thousand units and call it a day, or are you looking at long term production/ business?

What sort of characters are we looking at in game?

That such a thing would exist in their long-range plans is somewhat...expected? If you have a sci-fi universe dealing with space travel and combat, it'd be more surprising to NOT have plans for such a thing.

They have said that they're not planning on doing anything other than this squad-based game for a long while though, so I wouldn't expect firm talk about it for many years unless this explodes massively. Even then, it'd just be changing from "many years" to "a few years". The concept art is being shown to give people an idea of the universe and expand the setting. Concept art is (comparatively) easy and cheap to produce compared to a model, but it does fill in the skeleton of the world to see how things get from A to B. At this point, it's window-dressing to help with immersion and not a product roadmap unless I've horribly misunderstood statements by legoburner and yakface.

I think that like with anything, if there is enough demand things will happen. I think most would agree that most wargamers or at least a very respectable percentage have interest overlap with other table top games, and with a resurgence in popularity for ship mechanics it doesn't seem like a stretch that any of them would be taking a 2nd look right now.

I think X-wing was a kick in the pants to a lot of people in the market that 'simpler', non-terrestrial games can catch fire.

I am also noticing a big update of space combat in the videogame sphere, and about damn time as the genre has been neglected for a very, very long time if you ask me!

In any case, I think few would argue that the importance of ships in the fluff as presented would be more than enough to justify exploring the idea at some point when and if the circumstances are right . As X-wing also demonstrated, a strong IP to sit the game on top of sure doesn't hurt!

MLaw wrote:Why is there spaceship concept art? Is there already going to be a spaceship game based in this universe?

Krinsath has it right, we have images of cities and planets as well, but are not planning any city or planet models just yet! The spaceships are just part of the aesthetic which we want to create so that when people are thinking about their forces, they can consider how they got to their planets, what they are fighting for, etc. It also adds great illustrative depth to the fiction which is strong enough to be an effectively distinct range of products.

Grot 6 wrote:I'm all over it.
I just want to know if we can start talking about the 28mm Heavy Gear/ Mech game with these guys in it.

We'll definitely support any fan-based initiatives for spinoff games, but our focus is on Maelstrom's Edge itself.

Grot 6 wrote:
Questions- Are there going to be vehicles?

There are some early designs, but nothing will be made in plastic for at least a couple of years.

Grot 6 wrote:
Is there an interactive website, where we are supposed to track the Maelstrom, get scenarios, get modeling tips, plans etc. for the game?

http://www.maelstromsedge.com will be the home of everything with scenarios, modeling and painting guides, etc. The content is quite spartan there at the moment as all of our updating efforts are focused on the kickstarter, but post-KS that will be the place to be.

Grot 6 wrote:
How many other aliens are we looking at in game?

There are loads in a future faction - we aim to have a roughly star wars level of aliens in our universe, it's not all human.

Grot 6 wrote: How does production/ staying power look for this game? Are you just going to crank out a couple thousand units and call it a day, or are you looking at long term production/ business?

The entire 8 man core team are in it for the long term and are all willing to go without pay as and when needed to keep things moving forwards as it is a long term dream for us all to be able to build something on this scale. That means that all surplus cash can be pushed back into models rather than out into salaries until our production schedule is consistent and even. Every single thing we've done is focused around the long term, with our general plans stretching a good eight years and the next two years of development fully locked in.

Grot 6 wrote:
What sort of characters are we looking at in game?

TBA, but generally not much in this first year as we are going 100% plastic, and the demand for plastic named characters is pretty low, even for GW. We are exploring a bunch of really interesting options on that front though so stay tuned!

 agnosto wrote:

 malfred wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
I just want you all to know that I can be bought. Just putting that out there.

There are words I'm not allowed to use in a public setting for people like that

Hey, I'll be a corporate shill for the right reward.

And, I've been called worse by better people Malfred.

"Do you bite your thumb at me sir?"

Looking forward to seeing this video later.

I had a question about the rules. Will the weapons in the game be abstracted, like in Song of Blades and Heroes or others using its engine, or will it be more like Infinity where different weapons can have different attachments and ammunition? Basically, will the weapon options on the sprues be purely cosmetic, or will they actually serve an in-game function?

Will there ever be a rules and tokens pledge or option at retail?

The $50 Everything but the Models pledge is exactly that.

You get the rulebook, tokens, dice, bases, unit cards, mission cards. Its basically the $90 level for stuff, but without the models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Barzam wrote:
I had a question about the rules. Will the weapons in the game be abstracted, like in Song of Blades and Heroes or others using its engine, or will it be more like Infinity where different weapons can have different attachments and ammunition? Basically, will the weapon options on the sprues be purely cosmetic, or will they actually serve an in-game function?

I believe the weapon options like the underslung grenade launcher or the little raygun do indeed have their own rules.

 MLaw wrote:
Why is there spaceship concept art? Is there already going to be a spaceship game based in this universe?

It helps to sell the overall style and scale of the universe. Knowing what their spaceships look like can give us an idea of what to go for in style when kit bashing landing craft, hangars, corridors or construction yards using our handy terrain sprues. It's important to establish a look for the brand, so that if we're playing in the ME universe, and a character needs to go to a ship, has block, hot dog stand, toilet, whatever, we have a clear picture of it in our mind's eye. You know, instead of picturing some other company's terrain.

I love, love, love the look of the spaceships shown so far, and their art is slick.

Nm. found it.

Are there plans in the future for any alien factions based on a single alien race, rather than a "star wars" mix of various aliens and humans? Dreamforge is currently working on the Shadokesh, 40K has the Tau, the Eldar, the Orks, the Tyranids, the Necrons, etc.

If not, is it because you consider a monolithic alien race faction a financial risk? Too old school? Too provincial? Too fattening?

What?

Well I'm in. I just haven't been near my personal PC long enough AND cogent enough to pledge before now.

Now to find someone to foist the Karists on.

How much will models cost after kickstarted if we want to expand? (Obviously it will take a long time to paint all the models before getting more, but it would still be nice to know. Also, the model count seems slightly skewed towards the Epirian faction. Will there be a points system so you don't take everything in the box, or will some Karist units be slightly stronger with the Kaddar Nova and big angel model balancing it out?

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
How much will models cost after kickstarted if we want to expand? (Obviously it will take a long time to paint all the models before getting more, but it would still be nice to know. Also, the model count seems slightly skewed towards the Epirian faction. Will there be a points system so you don't take everything in the box, or will some Karist units be slightly stronger with the Kaddar Nova and big angel model balancing it out?

They said the set is balanced out against each side.

The Karist stuff seems, and this holds with the few stats they have shown, to be a little stronger individually. I'll bet the Shadow Walkers are super fast and deadly. And the adult Angel is probably pretty durable so it counters out the Hunters and Scarecrows. And there is definitely a point system. Plus there is the mechanic where you can bring back units that have been destroyed, so I'll bet there is some balancing done with that in mind too.

As for the retail prices, they did say it depends on the ultimate success of the kickstarter. If they have more initial volume they can have a lower retail price when things hit store shelves.

Thanks