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David Clarke wrote:Ah yes, we are in agreement on the basics then. 28mm would be an obvious choice for raking in the cash, rather than the fleet or 15mm games so its absence from the beginning line up is the puzzling factor for me. The one thing I wonder about is the dreaded "licensing issues". Thinking back to New Line Cinemas and the Lord of the Rings deal with Gamesworkshop, where the game was deliberately made in an incompatible scale with pre-existing products to avoid brand dilution and weakening of the IP. It all sounded like complete and utter rubbish at the time but I guess that's the world of international copyright law. So when I look at Spartan launching the Halo:Ground Combat game in a different scale to their pre-existing sci-fi game I do wonder if similar shenanigans are afoot.

It certainly seems so I really hope that Spartan does the 28mm game, when I look at the UNSC I see fantastic opportunities for some counts-as guard of general sci-fi human uses, and the Covenant are just so superbly diverse that many people would use them for Deadzone, 40k or anything other use really. They do seem like they are working together well, but I am also fearful of the licencing issues that using someone else's IP can bring. I hope that they are not pulling a new line, because while Lord of the Rings was (and, indeed, is) a fantastic range, had it been a similarly scaled affair to Warhammer, there would be a plethora of Fantasy armies made of LotRs models. This, in turn, would fuel the success of the models, and the game whilst giving gamers options.

Spartan's own IPs are made for games and gamers, and their current success is built on their appeal to mini wargamers, and thus interest in them, providing continued support from Spartan, should remain relatively stable. In contrast to this, Halo's IP is an independent entity that appeals to a great many people, of whom a significant proportion will be non-gamers who enjoy the Halo video games currently. It is precisely the Newline-GW issues that you mentioned that have me concerned; releasing quality minis takes time and effort, and the process of collecting and painting them also does, it is this issue that has me wondering about the future of the Halo franchise 5,10 and 15 years down the track. If Spartan Games makes minis incompatible with mainstream wargaming, then the IP will be the primary draw, not the aesthetic.

As we have seen, even HUGE IPs much bigger than Halo, like LotRs, can and do wilt. This is the main reason why I see doing at least a somewhat 28mm compatible scale as a logical decision; with cross compatibility, these gorgeous models we are seeing can be rationally purchased for their beauty but still be used in a game that the player will like, without the player having to find an IP specific opponent of this exclusively scaled range. I believe that scaling them as such in the skirmish game will firmly entrench the Halo models as candidates for gaming pieces, not collectable pieces and promote the widespread macro sale of the models that just isn't possible if they are not viewed as gaming pieces. I think by doing it this way, Spartan can borrow strength of mini wargaming in general, bolstering itself during times of peak sales and more critically, supplementing itself during times of lulls; doing so means the game can stay healthy for a long time to come, perhaps even to the point where ideally it can establish itself as a truly permanent tabletop presence (long shot, I know; but to me very possible)

caylentor wrote:A 28 or 32mm ODST platoon would make me explode with joy. Every couple of years I get the desire to do a small force of them and go looking for suitable bits only to be disappointed. Having some genuine miniatures would be amazing, especially given how good Spartan's Firestorm spec ops stuff looked.

Me too! Check out the link in my sig and you can see what I've managed to do for ODSTs, feel free to steal my ideas, I can send you some pms of more recent work, trying to get more progress on my Halo forces but didn't want to get my hard work invalidated by Spartan releasing superior stuff just after I got my forces done!

Collinsas wrote:I think they hinted towards using the same development strategy they use for their other games (Fleet-Ground-Skirmish) in one of the podcasts that they where on. I think it was when they went on Dakka Dakka's own D6 Generation to discuss their upcoming Halo release.

@ ONI-S3 I sent you a PM with a bunch of links for terrain. I didn't want to sidetrack this topic too much with discussion of terrain.

Thank you kindly for that

DrRansom wrote:Are they really confirmed for two scales for ground combat?

From one podcast, Meeples and Miniatures, the Spartan guys said that the ground game would be in 15mm. They reasoned that the video games are already functionally 28mm games, making a 28mm game redundant. A 15mm game, on the other hand, gives players the chance to do larger scale battles, unlike the video game.

Yes, in a PM from a reliable person I got confirmation of 2 scales, however I don't know the 2nd scale. As I'm sure you' know, one of the obfuscating factors is the mildly confusing situation where Halo ground combat is 15mm, but that 'ground combat' is the name of the game, and that not all ground combat that occurs is in the 'ground combat' game's scale.

Tyran wrote:

DrRansom wrote:
Are they really confirmed for two scales for ground combat?

From one podcast, Meeples and Miniatures, the Spartan guys said that the ground game would be in 15mm. They reasoned that the video games are already functionally 28mm games, making a 28mm game redundant. A 15mm game, on the other hand, gives players the chance to do larger scale battles, unlike the video game.

Eh... Halo Wars already does the large scale battles.

That's a really good point, if the reason they chose to do 15mm was because 28mm could never equal the FPS video game, why would they go for something Halo Wars does quite nicely as well? That being said, I believe Neil, the guy in being interviewed in the Meeples podcast, is actually the owner of Spartan Games, so he probably has an inkling or tow of where the company is going haha , which only further confuses me as to why he'd say that he's avoiding the video games. Again, I am not sure if this is the same Neil, and it is conceivable that two people sharing the same first name can work for the same company.

David Clarke wrote:Halo Wars definitely had the larger scale battles done. English wargame's designers come out with some very odd thing's during interviews, I suspect the poor chap may have been suffering from a distinct lack of cups of tea and answering too many questions whilst labouring under an NDA. At least no ones started talking about narrative wargaming,wishing that tournament players would just go away, or insisting that the rules are almost completely irrelevant to the models they sell.

Haha, if this Neil is indeed the owner of Spartan Games, I don't think he is truly that bound by NDA. But you're entirely right, why say we're trying really hard to avoid the video games, when they're doing precisely the kind of scale seen in the Halo Wars video game?

DrRansom wrote:I'm a bit confused. There is an interview with a developer describing a reason for the scale. He talks about how Spartan and 343 discussed the scale and agreed upon it. But he must be wrong, because English Developer? That is a ridiculous argument.

As for Halo Wars, that is a good point. I think that Spartan games and 343 are looking to the future video game environment. Halo 5 comes out this fall, so the miniature game will have to compliment Halo 5 but not replace it.

There is another point to consider. No 28mm game can feel like Halo video game, but a mass skirmish 15mm game is far enough removed from Halo that there isn't that inbuilt issue of replicating the video game play.

All of this is beside the point. The only scale information we have is this podcast and the podcast is extremely clear:

I think David meant more that when someone is talking about something in person, the pressure is on to present a succinct and engaging summary of their reasoning and decisions, which can sometimes lead to fumbles. Add to this that this person might not be able/allowed to reveal certain details and it leads to a lot of internal filtering that the individual has to go through before answering, and is a much less forgiving venture than taking the time to write out a written response.
Hell, I've had all the time in the world to write out this response and I'm still unsure if I've achieved my aim of putting forth my interpretation of what David meant whilst also trying to make sure I do so in a polite manner! I can very much see how an individual trying to respond verbally in a timely manner may state things that in hindsight seem a little off, such as their statement of avoiding the video games thing which is somewhat off given the style of play offered by Halo Wars.

It's also an interesting point you raise about Halo 5, you think they're going to focus on that? Personally, I think the Human-Covenant War is the iconic Halo conflict, and that setting the game in this period, at least initially, would be the way to go. I also have the evidence of the Elite, Grunt, Marine and Warthog aesthetics, all of which are distinctly Bungie's Halos 1-3; then again, that is far from a conclusive indication of the 3rd game's timeline and, correspondingly, overarching aesthetic.
You also have another good point in that Halo Wars was very much an outlier and more of a nuanced demographic. 15mm is indeed within video game territory, but only one game's domain and that game was a tiny blip compared to the FPSs.

warboss wrote:Maybe he was referring to the 28mm clix game? I don't know if they still have that license from so many years ago.

Hopefully not! I would be deeply, deeply saddened if that was the thing preventing us from getting a much greater quality set of miniatures

I wouldn't be too surprised if by Video Games he simply meant the Halo FPS series and completely forgot Halo Wars existed. x)

Spartan games have just posted the box contents-
"There are 49 highly-detailed plastic ship models in the upcoming Halo: Fleet Battles, The Fall of Reach two player battle box. For the UNSC, there is 1 Epoch-class Heavy Carrier, 4 Marathon-class Heavy Cruisers and 27 Paris-class Frigates. The Covenant get 1 ORS Class Heavy Cruiser, 2 CCS Class Battlecruisers and 14 SDV Heavy Corvettes"

And Oni-S3 does a better job than I could do of explaining the unspoken half of my analytic, before it descended into an anti-GW rant. Being interviewed face to face isn't easy. Being interviewed at the end of a busy day, when there's a whole bunch of stuff that you can't publicly share is harder. Its so much easier to compose thought and control the message in a written article.

That box is a massive deal at only £60 from wayland!

As I said before I strongly suspect that Spartan will follow their prestablished model, it's cool to hear that ONI-S3 has a source that re-enforces my supposition.

To elaborate on a point made by others here; I have come to take in any info that Neil provides in interviews with a grain of salt unless it's a product who's release window is very close at hand. The Spartan team I have found tend to get a little overwhelmed by their love and enthusiasm of the products that they get to develop.

A good example of this that comes to mind is that I remember listening some years (3 or 4) ago that Neil went on the D6 Generation for an interview and he announced that Spartan was playing new prototype models along with a New "Fleet Scale" Rulset of Firestorm Armada where in you would have multiple ships on one base and each player would be acting out the larger fleet actions of the Firestorm Universe / Maelstrom Zone.

That game never came out, as much as I at the time wanted it too, since I had a nice purple and white Dendrenzi fleet that was painted by Spartan Giovanni. Although it is cool to see that the squadron basing idea has lived on here in halo.

Edited for clarity and grammar.

Sorry if this was in the thread already, but is it known how many ships or size of fleet is intended for a full game?

Is the boxset around the mark or will this be like X-Wing where I'd be stuck trying to get hold of 100 billion booster packs to obtain ships and cards? If its like X-Wing in that regard, Im not interested. Hopefully someone can answer before I preorder.

If the 15mm game isn't called Ground Combat Evolved I'll be very disappointed in everyone involved.

Hey-hey, they'll be at GenCon! I can put this three-year stent living in Indianapolis to good use then!

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Sorry if this was in the thread already, but is it known how many ships or size of fleet is intended for a full game?

Is the boxset around the mark or will this be like X-Wing where I'd be stuck trying to get hold of 100 billion booster packs to obtain ships and cards? If its like X-Wing in that regard, Im not interested. Hopefully someone can answer before I preorder.

It's a starter. You can play a game with it, but it's expected that you'll buy more ships to add to your fleet. Nearly every miniatures game works under this model.

However, it's not like X-Wing in that you don't need to buy UNC frigate boosters to get an item that you'll primarily be using with your Covenant Assault Carrier. When you buy ships, all that you're buying are the figures. Any add-ons, boosts, or similar items for your ships either come with the ship or are represented by notes scribbled on your list.

GenRifDrake wrote:I wouldn't be too surprised if by Video Games he simply meant the Halo FPS series and completely forgot Halo Wars existed. x)

HOW DARE HE. Seriously loving Halo Wars, especially now that I get to fantasise about making the maps into boards... *significant drool*

David Clarke wrote:Spartan games have just posted the box contents-
"There are 49 highly-detailed plastic ship models in the upcoming Halo: Fleet Battles, The Fall of Reach two player battle box. For the UNSC, there is 1 Epoch-class Heavy Carrier, 4 Marathon-class Heavy Cruisers and 27 Paris-class Frigates. The Covenant get 1 ORS Class Heavy Cruiser, 2 CCS Class Battlecruisers and 14 SDV Heavy Corvettes"

And Oni-S3 does a better job than I could do of explaining the unspoken half of my analytic, before it descended into an anti-GW rant. Being interviewed face to face isn't easy. Being interviewed at the end of a busy day, when there's a whole bunch of stuff that you can't publicly share is harder. Its so much easier to compose thought and control the message in a written article.

Glad I hit the nail on the head, also updated the OP with the new contents, thanks!

Collinsas wrote:That box is a massive deal at only £60 from wayland!

As I said before I strongly suspect that Spartan will follow their prestablished model, it's cool to hear that ONI-S3 has a source that re-enforces my supposition.

To elaborate on a point made by others here; I have come to take in any info that Neil provides in interviews with a grain of salt unless it's a product who's release window is very close at hand. The Spartan team I have found tend to get a little overwhelmed by their love and enthusiasm of the products that they get to develop.

A good example of this that comes to mind is that I remember listening some years (3 or 4) ago that Neil went on the D6 Generation for an interview and he announced that Spartan was playing new prototype models along with a New "Fleet Scale" Rulset of Firestorm Armada where in you would have multiple ships on one base and each player would be acting out the larger fleet actions of the Firestorm Universe / Maelstrom Zone.

That game never came out, as much as I at the time wanted it too, since I had a nice purple and white Dendrenzi fleet that was painted by Spartan Giovanni. Although it is cool to see that the squadron basing idea has lived on here in halo.

Edited for clarity and grammar.

I really think this IP can push them to stardom, I like a lot of Halo's lore and love some of it, but I love almost all of the aesthetic. Every unit, to me, has a life and character that really shines. I'm glad you're hopeful, but also see why you'd be concerned given your past experiences.

Dropbear Victim wrote:Sorry if this was in the thread already, but is it known how many ships or size of fleet is intended for a full game?

Is the boxset around the mark or will this be like X-Wing where I'd be stuck trying to get hold of 100 billion booster packs to obtain ships and cards? If its like X-Wing in that regard, Im not interested. Hopefully someone can answer before I preorder.

I'm not entirely sure, but what I have read confirms what Eumerin wrote

ArtIsGreat wrote:If the 15mm game isn't called Ground Combat Evolved I'll be very disappointed in everyone involved.

Me too! But sadly I think the title is actually going to be "Halo: Ground Combat Game" which doesn't have quite the same appeal

Accolade wrote:Hey-hey, they'll be at GenCon! I can put this three-year stent living in Indianapolis to good use then! Of course, I will also be taking many, many pictures and posting them here, in this thread, for those poor people that live in nations essentially devoid of big events.

It seems you cut off part of your post, I edited it for you haha

Good news, Busts have been sighted not just in the U.S., but also in Australia, more specifically, my Warhammer room. They're gorgeous in person, I've included an Officer of the Fleet (GW) for scale, as well as placed it on a cutting board with 1cm cubes (1cm²= 05⁄32in²)

Edited for photo mishap.

I did come back to a missed parcel slip - it must be my shipmaster!

They do look pretty brilliant!

Moor to the point, you bought 3 sets?! Those ought to keep you going for a while when they arrive!

caylentor wrote:I did come back to a missed parcel slip - it must be my shipmaster!

Go to that post office, rescue that Elite. It sounds like Truth and Reconciliation in reverse. Use a shotgun with limited ammo

Paradigm wrote:They do look pretty brilliant!

Moor to the point, you bought 3 sets?! Those ought to keep you going for a while when they arrive!

I actually like Stanforth a lot more now that I have him in person, I'm really glad I didn't just get another Elite instead. And sadly, no, only two are mine haha. A friend sent me the money and I just paid for all three so that they would be eligible for free postage. I think they might be persuaded to let go of their UNSC stuff though... *fiendishly plans*

Hey guys, no new news but some clearer shots found on the interwebs of Halo Ground Combat; some of them even seem to be without the glass in front of them

From Halo Fan for Life:







Still not too taken with those Spartans, though the marines are just superb

From brueckenkopf-online.com:









I wonder if the Warthog windshield is going to be resin on the final product? That would be annoying. Still, the models themselves are looking amazing, plus there's a whole 6 months + minimum of future tinkering. It will also be interesting to see how close they go to either Bungie Halo or 343 Halo, so far we're definitely in Bungie territory, which I have to say I approve of.

I am so getting those warthogs just for terrain.

 ONI-S3 wrote:


I wonder if the Warthog windshield is going to be resin on the final product? That would be annoying. Still, the models themselves are looking amazing, plus there's a whole 6 months + minimum of future tinkering. It will also be interesting to see how close they go to either Bungie Halo or 343 Halo, so far we're definitely in Bungie territory, which I have to say I approve of.

Eh... define 343I's or Bungie's territory.

So for us who haven´t kept up to date on this, Do we know what material the 15mm infantry will be in and do we have a release date? (also what happened with the 28mm game?)

 Tyran wrote:

Eh... define 343I's or Bungie's territory.

When 343i did Halo 4 they made a fair few aesthetic changes to some of the Halo staples Bungie had slowly refined over the previous 4 games. The Warthog, Battle Rifle and Pelican are the worst offenders. Some fans didn't mind - others did.

Aus Askar wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Eh... define 343I's or Bungie's territory.

When 343i did Halo 4 they made a fair few aesthetic changes to some of the Halo staples Bungie had slowly refined over the previous 4 games. The Warthog, Battle Rifle and Pelican are the worst offenders. Some fans didn't mind - others did.

Bungie also did plenty of aesthetics changes each time a new game was released, so it would be better to differentiate them by game instead that by company.

Must admit I prefer the later (343) Scorpion, Warthog and Pelican. I'm still not sold on Spartan IVs, though. Some of the weapon redesigns that popped up in the H5 beta were pretty awesome as well!

Tyran wrote:
Eh... define 343I's or Bungie's territory.

Anything from H:CE anniversary onward is 343 in my book, that's when the marines started changing quite a fair bit. By Halo 4 we had distinct differences physiologically in the Covenant's member races :-) At least that's what I would refer to as 343's territory

ulgurstasta wrote:So for us who haven´t kept up to date on this, Do we know what material the 15mm infantry will be in and do we have a release date? (also what happened with the 28mm game?)

At this point there is very little that is certain about the 15mm game, though I suspect (based on the HIPs for Fleet Battles) that it will be HIPs, that being said, I'm not particularly fluent with the nuances of this scale and whether that is practical. I presume it is, but it is just a presumption. The release is scheduled for early 2016 at this point, hopefully we'll know more after Gencon

As for the 28mm game, it will be coming after

Aus Askar wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Eh... define 343I's or Bungie's territory.

When 343i did Halo 4 they made a fair few aesthetic changes to some of the Halo staples Bungie had slowly refined over the previous 4 games. The Warthog, Battle Rifle and Pelican are the worst offenders. Some fans didn't mind - others did.

You hit the nail on the head. Some of the stuff I liked, others were strange to see, such as the Covenant's suddenly beefed up infantry. Plus the marines lost their (armour's) identity entirely and now more look like Mass Effect humans than UNSC

Tyran wrote:

Bungie also did plenty of aesthetics changes each time a new game was released, so it would be better to differentiate them by game instead that by company.

I can see the argument for that, but maintain that while changes were present within each game, overall (accounting for graphics improvements and excluding additions of new weapons and vehicles) I believe that the change between previously established objects and races envisaged by Bunige and then revamped by 343 were drastic: in particular the changes in H4 stand out, which, to me, were greater than all the changes in the previous games combined.

Paradigm wrote:Must admit I prefer the later (343) Scorpion, Warthog and Pelican. I'm still not sold on Spartan IVs, though. Some of the weapon redesigns that popped up in the H5 beta were pretty awesome as well!

Haha, I prefer the front of 343's Pelican, but the rear and top of the Bungie Pelican. I'm liking quite a few of the S-IV armours (Honestly love the S-IV recruit armour), I'm not too keen on the ones that look simply impractical and have silly additions that are clearly there to look strange and cool and not even vaguely efficient. I also like their hunters a lot more

Look at the changes between Halo 3 and Halo Reach, those were quite drastic.

As for the miniatures, they can use any design they want, all of them are canon.

Picked up my shipmaster yesterday - he's a really nice figure, though sadly I'm not going to have time to paint him by June 4th :(.

June 4th...
I got my Covenant commander 1,5 week ago (love the model) and don't know if i will be able to paint it before 4th either.
But i will probably try to make time for it this weekend.

Tyran wrote:Look at the changes between Halo 3 and Halo Reach, those were quite drastic.

As for the miniatures, they can use any design they want, all of them are canon.

I know, I was listing what I would like to see, not claiming that they couldn't use certain designs

caylentor wrote:Picked up my shipmaster yesterday - he's a really nice figure, though sadly I'm not going to have time to paint him by June 4th :(.

ORicK wrote:June 4th...
I got my Covenant commander 1,5 week ago (love the model) and don't know if i will be able to paint it before 4th either.
But i will probably try to make time for it this weekend.

Ah, yes, I fell for the 4th of June as a date as well, but that's actually an omission on Spartan Games' part. I thought to myself judging =/= last opportunity to enter the competition, so I did a little more digging and it turns out Judging takes part on the 4th, but entries must be in by the 31st of May. Found that on an official update, I'll try and find it and post it here, plus I'll update the main post so people don't leave it to the 3rd to enter and find out they're not eligible.

Ah... 31th of May... even more pressure...

That IS good news!
I Always work and paint very well under pressure!
;-)

So let's see if i can get this boy painted within a week.

Only one question: will i use metallic purple or not...

I believe that the answer to that question is a resounding yes, yes you shall. I am also enjoying the time pressure! Even updated my painting blog for the first time since Halo miniatures were announced, I've got a partially painted Stanforth on the way.

Updated main post with warning about the deadline, it's in the terms and conditions section at the bottom.



Edit for the photo

I'll see if I can get everything else I need to do finished over the weekend then try to paint him in a week :p

No news so far?

Nothing new. Spartan posted their release list for June and it was sans Halo, so I guess we're looking at July at the earliest.