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I'm surprised everyone is hating on the K Wong, I actually really like the look of it and it appears to have some interesting new abilities. The TIE Interdictor or whatever it is isn't grabbing me as much, but Ill probably get one anyway.

The Hounds tooth doesn't hold any meaning to me, and the other scum fighter looks fairly tough for a small fighter, but I have no idea what real abilities it brings to the table. It looks to be an X Wing equivalent for scum

K-Wing has looked like that for ages. I remember the pictures in the old d20 SW RPG from WotC. It was clunky and ugly then, and it's clunky and ugly now. Just don't say that to the pilot's face, because that thing is armed to the teeth! (I'm a fan of the K-Wing, will definitely get one and the scum stuff.)

Is that a 2 or 3 attack dice on the kihraxz? I wonder what sort of roll it will fill. It's stats look very X-Wing-ey

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Is that a 2 or 3 attack dice on the kihraxz? I wonder what sort of roll it will fill. It's stats look very X-Wing-ey

Obviously a 3. And IMO it will fill a very important role that scum are kind of lacking right now: the 20-25 point generic ship with a 3-dice gun. Right now they have the swarm of z-95s and the 50-point large ships, but not much between the two. The "warthog" y-wing is great when you can get it up close, but if you're forced to take range-3 shots it's almost useless. And the scyk is just a terrible ship. Now they'll have a straightforward 20ish point ship that you can throw into pretty much any list and use effectively in pretty much any situation. The awkward situation where you have 18-22 points to spare (too much to spend on a z-95 but not enough for a better ship) should be gone entirely.

I'd love the Gunboat, I'd like an TIE Avenger too, also the Missileboat then that'd be all the ships from TIE Fighter.

Quite excited for everything except the TIE Interdictor, despite having fond memories or Galactic Battlegrounds over 10 years ago. However if it and the K Wing make missiles more viable I will be very happy, especially as the K Wing is a guilty pleasure of mine despite its rather... rough charms shall we say. Scum getting a midrange standard ship is nice and another large is awesome. I wonder if that's part of the goal for Scum, access to more large ships. Might be nice to eventually see a lone Aggressor paired with something else, if viable of course.

Zond wrote:
Quite excited for everything except the TIE Interdictor, despite having fond memories or Galactic Battlegrounds over 10 years ago. However if it and the K Wing make missiles more viable I will be very happy, especially as the K Wing is a guilty pleasure of mine despite its rather... rough charms shall we say. Scum getting a midrange standard ship is nice and another large is awesome. I wonder if that's part of the goal for Scum, access to more large ships. Might be nice to eventually see a lone Aggressor paired with something else, if viable of course.

I don't think we'll ever see the aggressor paired with anything else, just because you need the IG 2000 title.

 obsidianaura wrote:
I'd love the Gunboat, I'd like an TIE Avenger too, also the Missileboat then that'd be all the ships from TIE Fighter.

Then we just need upgrade cards for All Zaarin's specials. TIE Fighters with shields, anyone?

Well, at least the Kihraxz looks better than it did when I flew one in Star Wars Galaxies - mind you, all of the freelance ships in JTLS looked fugly except the Scyk, YT1300 and the Krayt.

I'd have loved to see a Loronar E-9 or an official YV-929 instead of the Hounds Tooth, though.

Aside from the Hound's Tooth, this wave just makes me feel sad. I know Wave VIII is on the way but seeing the K-Wing and that super generic computer game ship ... I have the feeling we're coming to the end of the line. Maybe Episode VII can turn things around.

I'm not inclined to blame the line, but more FFG's choices.

For example, instead of the Khi-unprouncible Fighter, you could easily have had the

R-41 Starchaser



Instead of the TIE Bomber Squared. (AKA TIE Interdictor, TIE Punisher), you could very easily have had:

Scimitar Assault Bomber




I'm afraid I've got nothing offhand for the K-Wing, because, well, that's just so incredibly OTT that I doubt any other fighter sized ship short of the Suncrusher could get close.

 Manchu wrote:
I have the feeling we're coming to the end of the line. Maybe Episode VII can turn things around.

That's a tad bit hyperbolic considering you're basing that off of the designs of two ships.

There are lots of people not only excited for the fixes this wave will most likely be bringing, but excited for using these ships in game, myself included.

Eh, three out of four. FFG should have simply designed new stuff. The Raider looks a lot better than the Picasso-Wing, I mean K-Wing. The TIE Whatever is the least inspired TIE variant possible, although the S&V Shckirkzhxz fighter beats it in terms of the all time most generic championship. The assault gunboat packaged with a fix card for the TIE bomber would have been much better. And maybe just skip small ships for S&V in favor of Punishing One so the faction gets a bit more of its own flavor.

Im a huge fan of the K-Wing. Been waiting for the ship to drop since Wave 1. If they keep it true to the fluff (something theyve been very good at doing), Id expect it to have a turret, cannon, missile, bomb, torpedo, and crew upgrade (seriously, this the A-10 of the Star Wars universe), the new action I would expect to be a speed 2 boost straight ahead, but maybe they surprise us with something new.

The TIE Punisher is whatever to me, I would have much preferred a Scimitar Assault Bomber instead.

The Khiraxz is frustrating to me, not because they made the Khiraxz, but because IMO they picked the worst style variant for that ship



Hounds Tooth was to be expected, no surprise.

Personally, Im hoping they fixed the issues with secondary weapons in this wave, which seems to be the intent.

Also, as a side note, based on Armada we know that the Hounds Tooth is an Imperial ship, yet it seems that its being released as an S&V option. I would expect that at some point FF will release an expansion that allows you to take the Hounds Tooth as an Imperial ship, similar to how S&V can take the HWK-290 and Slave 1. I would expect the Millenium Falcon and Outrider to receive similar treatment at some point as well.

Its been suggested that Fantasy Flight cant make the missile boat/assault gunboat because its an IP they dont have access to due to the nature of previous licensing agreements, etc.

 Manchu wrote:
FFG should have simply designed new stuff.

And then you'd have people asking "where's my k-wing". They were able to design the Raider because there weren't any canon ships in the right size range (at least outside of obscure video game stuff that nobody cares about). You can't do that with heavy bombers because the k-wing is an appropriate ship, has appeared in multiple non-game sources, and is something people are going to expect to have. They might have been able to do something new for the imperial bomber, but would yet another TIE variant really be so much better than what we actually got?

The assault gunboat packaged with a fix card for the TIE bomber would have been much better.

And it would be completely against the fluff. The gunboat isn't a heavy bomber like the k-wing, it's an imperial equivalent of the A4 y-wing. FFG clearly wanted a missile/torpedo-focused wave and that rules out a ship that only uses its missiles as a secondary weapon.

And maybe just skip small ships for S&V in favor of Punishing One so the faction gets a bit more of its own flavor.

Which would be terrible for balance. Scum desperately need an x-wing equivalent to fill the gap between z-95s and 50-point large ships. The scyk is a complete failure, and the y-wing's range and speed limits force you to plan your strategy around it. Now scum have an efficient 3-dice gun that is useful in pretty much every situation and that should be a major buff to the faction.

I wouldnt say the Scyk is a failure. Ive had pretty good success with it, mostly because you can make them virtually unkillable with the right combination of named pilots and upgrades.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Its been suggested that Fantasy Flight cant make the missile boat/assault gunboat because its an IP they dont have access to due to the nature of previous licensing agreements, etc.

That doesn't make much sense. Sure, it first appeared in the X-Wing series of video games, but it's had (brief) appearances elsewhere and we've already seen them take ships (HWK, TIE phantom) that only appeared in video games from that era and publisher. What would be special about the gunboat?

It also contradicts the hint FFG gave that the gunboat is going to be released. At the store championship where the lead designer was playing someone asked "where's my gunboat" and the answer was the kind of "no comment" that pretty clearly means "I can't tell you officially, but it's coming". If it really is a licensing issue then why wouldn't they just say "we know it's a popular ship but license issues are getting in the way right now"?


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chaos0xomega wrote:
I wouldnt say the Scyk is a failure. Ive had pretty good success with it, mostly because you can make them virtually unkillable with the right combination of named pilots and upgrades.

You have a very strange definition of "virtually unkillable". In fact, the scyk's biggest weakness is that it's an incredibly fragile ship for its point cost.


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 Compel wrote:
For example, instead of the Khi-unprouncible Fighter, you could easily have had the

R-41 Starchaser

Would that really have been much better? It would just trade one bland and forgettable video game ship for a different bland and forgettable video game ship.

Everybody is always asking for their _____. Nothing will prevent that. And I don't buy the argument that while video game and comic book companies can make up ships, FFG should not.

I don't get what happened with the M-3A and StarViper. Maybe something will come out with the Hound's Tooth or the other thing to explain FFG's thinking. S&V could be very neat focusing on large ships, if FFG could get the design right. I don't think that is presumptively impossible.

 Peregrine wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Its been suggested that Fantasy Flight cant make the missile boat/assault gunboat because its an IP they dont have access to due to the nature of previous licensing agreements, etc.

That doesn't make much sense. Sure, it first appeared in the X-Wing series of video games, but it's had (brief) appearances elsewhere and we've already seen them take ships (HWK, TIE phantom) that only appeared in video games from that era and publisher. What would be special about the gunboat?

It also contradicts the hint FFG gave that the gunboat is going to be released. At the store championship where the lead designer was playing someone asked "where's my gunboat" and the answer was the kind of "no comment" that pretty clearly means "I can't tell you officially, but it's coming". If it really is a licensing issue then why wouldn't they just say "we know it's a popular ship but license issues are getting in the way right now"?

The Assault Gunboat/Star Wing has basically appeared nowhere outside of Totally Games products. There are vague references to 'assault gunboats' in certain works of fiction, etc. but they are never stated to be the Xg-1 Star Wing design specifically. Also, IP licensing is a very careful thing, FFG isn't saying anything because they basically can't say anything.

You have a very strange definition of "virtually unkillable". In fact, the scyk's biggest weakness is that it's an incredibly fragile ship for its point cost.

81 ponts, use the remaining 19 points to add ships/upgrades to taste:
Laetin A'Shera w/Stealth Device
Serissu w/ Squad Leader and Stealth Device
Guri w/ Bodyguard and Stealth Device.

Each ship is throwing a minimum of 4 defense dice (until it gets hit). If you miss an attack against Laetin you add an evade token to him.Serissu lets you reroll 1 defense die at range 1. Squad Leader gives a free action to a friendly ship at range 1, use it for an extra evade token on one of your ships. Bodyguard increases the agility value of any of the other 2 ships to 5, 4 after one of them takes a hit.

Its really not that complicated to see how you might make it difficult for an opponent to get a hit off on one of your ships chaining the three abilities together.


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Technically speaking you could probably make a better list if you put Bodyguard on a Tansari Point Veteran (youd be saving about 15 points), but Guri can get you a free focus token to use Bodyguard, and I dont have a 3rd Scyck yet to try that out with. A Kaato Leeachos Z-95 could also possibly work, but is not really as survivable due to the reduced agility.

 Manchu wrote:
Everybody is always asking for their _____. Nothing will prevent that.

But some ships are going to have more demand than others. The k-wing is an obvious choice that a relatively large number of people are going to expect.

And I don't buy the argument that while video game and comic book companies can make up ships, FFG should not.

They're allowed to make new stuff, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Part of the appeal of a setting like Star Wars is that everything is part of a single shared universe. Ships/characters/etc in one game/story/etc appear in another, and you can think "oh yeah, I remember that from X". If you're working in a shared universe like that then you should take advantage of those shared elements, especially when they fit neatly into what you're already trying to do. The Raider was an example of a good new addition, no appropriate ship existed yet so rather than screw around with scale changes FFG created a new ship. Making a new rebel heavy bomber doesn't make sense because in the fluff they already have the k-wing.

I don't get what happened with the M-3A and StarViper.

Probably just a balance mistake. The scyk could have been fine with a cheaper point cost or a bit more HP, and the starviper mostly just needed a better high-end pilot and/or the evade action. Even swapping the abilities on Guri and Xizor would be a significant upgrade.

S&V could be very neat focusing on large ships, if FFG could get the design right. I don't think that is presumptively impossible.

It's not impossible, it's just a very small design space. Once you're limited to taking a pair of 50-point ships or a single 50-point ship and support list diversity disappears. To have an interesting faction you need the whole range of stuff from cheap swarm ships to 50+ point superships.

They're allowed to make new stuff, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Part of the appeal of a setting like Star Wars is that everything is part of a single shared universe. Ships/characters/etc in one game/story/etc appear in another, and you can think "oh yeah, I remember that from X". If you're working in a shared universe like that then you should take advantage of those shared elements, especially when they fit neatly into what you're already trying to do. The Raider was an example of a good new addition, no appropriate ship existed yet so rather than screw around with scale changes FFG created a new ship. Making a new rebel heavy bomber doesn't make sense because in the fluff they already have the k-wing.

Well remember that the K-Wing does not formally exist any longer. Its part of the 'Legends' continuity, which is to say the old fluff that Disney did away with, which somewhat raises a question - is what FFG produces considered part of the new EU canon? If so, that means that all these ships and designs and characters being produced for FFGs licensed materials are still canon and could possibly result in future continuity issues if Disney is not careful.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The Assault Gunboat/Star Wing has basically appeared nowhere outside of Totally Games products. There are vague references to 'assault gunboats' in certain works of fiction, etc. but they are never stated to be the Xg-1 Star Wing design specifically.

Is that really much different from the TIE phantom or scyk or HWK? All three of those ships appeared in their respective games and then pretty much disappeared

Also, IP licensing is a very careful thing, FFG isn't saying anything because they basically can't say anything.

Why can't they say anything? Are the terms of the license so secret that FFG isn't allowed to say "our license doesn't cover that material"?

Its really not that complicated to see how you might make it difficult for an opponent to get a hit off on one of your ships chaining the three abilities together.

Difficult? Sure. Virtually impossible? Not really. Serissu is the clear weakness in the chain because she can't use her ability on herself. Squad leader takes away her own action, so you've got a high-agility ship with no dice modification. And once Serissu goes down the rest of the chain collapses.

Also, this doesn't really address my argument that the scyk is a complete failure in the "20-25 point generic filler ship" role. You're proposing a strategy that takes up almost all of your points and requires you to fly in a rigid formation, that's not even remotely the same as the "I have 25 points available, I guess I'll take a FCS b-wing" role that scum are lacking.

chaos0xomega wrote:


81 ponts, use the remaining 19 points to add ships/upgrades to taste:
Laetin A'Shera w/Stealth Device
Serissu w/ Squad Leader and Stealth Device
Guri w/ Bodyguard and Stealth Device.

Each ship is throwing a minimum of 4 defense dice (until it gets hit). If you miss an attack against Laetin you add an evade token to him.Serissu lets you reroll 1 defense die at range 1. Squad Leader gives a free action to a friendly ship at range 1, use it for an extra evade token on one of your ships. Bodyguard increases the agility value of any of the other 2 ships to 5, 4 after one of them takes a hit.

Its really not that complicated to see how you might make it difficult for an opponent to get a hit off on one of your ships chaining the three abilities together.


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Technically speaking you could probably make a better list if you put Bodyguard on a Tansari Point Veteran (youd be saving about 15 points), but Guri can get you a free focus token to use Bodyguard, and I dont have a 3rd Scyck yet to try that out with. A Kaato Leeachos Z-95 could also possibly work, but is not really as survivable due to the reduced agility.

Meh. Dodge arcs with high PS ships. Because your abilities tie you to a PS5 pilot, it doesn't even need to be that high. Stay at range 2 (denying Guri her extra focus). If Guri uses bodyguard, pound her. Sure, she's tough, but without focus she will take a hit, and will go down fast after that. If it's a Tansarri Point Vet, it's even easier. Once Guri is dead, or if she doesn't use bodyguard, hit Serissu, denying the re-rolls. While Serissu will have a defence token, you only need one hit to break stealth, and another to kill. Once the support is dead, then deal with Laetin A'shera and any other ships.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well remember that the K-Wing does not formally exist any longer. Its part of the 'Legends' continuity, which is to say the old fluff that Disney did away with

This is kind of a misunderstanding. IIRC the old EU isn't gone entirely, Disney just isn't going to pay attention to any story elements when making their own stories. Theoretically they could ignore the k-wing or explicitly say that it doesn't exist anymore, but what would be the point?

which somewhat raises a question - is what FFG produces considered part of the new EU canon? If so, that means that all these ships and designs and characters being produced for FFGs licensed materials are still canon and could possibly result in future continuity issues if Disney is not careful.

This depends greatly on how "canon" is defined. The simplest answer is to have a policy that the movies are the highest level of canon, and other material only counts when it doesn't contradict the movies (this is the policy used in Star Trek, where novels/games/etc often contradict each other). Disney has no obligation to force every single thing with the Star Wars name on it to fit into a single canon.

I think people are getting a bit sidetracked comparing the Missile Boat and Assault Gunboat to the various Star Wars Galaxies, Rebel Assault 2 etc games.

The TIE Defender premiered in an expansion for TIE Fighter, in the exact same way the Missile Boat did. In fact, the TIE Defender and Missile Boat were explicitly linked during the expansion campaign itself.

I think the Assault Gunboat first appeared in X-Wing though, so slightly different game. But still, same company and series.

It's hard to know how many people are lusting after a K-Wing or how much that matters, especially when weighing them against those who think the ship is a visual abomination and/or those who would welcome a brand new visual design that doesn't baffle the eye for a ship with the same role/rules. And then there are folks, likely in greater numbers than any of the aforementioned groups, who have no idea what a K-Wing is and will be like "WTF is that supposed to be?" when they see it at Barnes & Noble, which is not a great reaction to get from consumers when you are trying to rehabilitate the IP's brand image (a.k.a., why X-Wing does not have prequel ships).

What really matters when it comes to toys of fictional space ships is they make brand sense. The Outrider didn't appear in any SW movies but you can tell it looks Star Warsy at a glance because of the design influence of the Millennium Falcon. In fact, anybody who saw the Outrider in some SyFy made for TV movie would be like "hey they're ripping off Star Wars." Like how when you see the Schrizxtz fighter, or whatever, you think "hey they're ripping off uninspired video game design from a decade ago. Maybe from a Star Wars game? Or Halo?" Brand new ships created by FFG for the sake of X-Wing can do better and now one has done better. Even if FFG decided to invent the Raider because there wasn't a small enough Imperial ship for X-Wing, they obviously did think to make it iconic: triangular shape PLUS solar panels! And now it's going to also appear in Armada, where that size-based excuse is unnecessary.

And of course already being a part of the brand does not automatically make something valuable. Certain images cut against value, and deeply. Jar Jar Binks is probably the best example of this for Star Wars. The K-Wing is pretty much the Jar Jar Binks of starfighters in terms of visual design. And this isn't just a matter of personal taste. I realize that some people really like how the K-Wing looks (and I'm not just talking about blind people, either). Along the same lines, I realize that some people don't like the way the E-Wing looks. But even people who think the E-Wing is ugly have to admit that it is definitely and obviously a riff on the X-Wing and therefore visually fits into the established iconic look of Star Wars.

But none of this will change that FFG is making a K-Wing. Heck, I will probably even buy one if not two. I'm just trying to explain why it was neither necessary nor even especially wise for FFG to bind itself to material even the current IP owner has abandoned.

For what it's worth, the outrider IS in A New Hope special edition.



Surprisingly, a TIE Shuttle also turns up in Empire Strikes Back too, which was news to me.

There is also a senate pod of E.T.'s in Phantom Menace. Could they be X-Wing's fourth faction???


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And here they are:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/4/20/hit-them-hard-and-fast/




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I was really hoping Bossk's Z-95 would be a repaint.


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Top Kihraxz pilot at PS9 for 29 points. Wonder how the dial looks.

 Manchu wrote:

Effectively makes other munitions cheaper. TIE Bombers benefit the most - A Scimitar bomber will get three rounds of shooting with missiles for ~25pts (or 30pts for 6 shots).

There are some awesome looking pilot abilities there.

Miranda (K-wing): Spend a shield to roll an additional attack die, or (I think) roll one fewer attack die to regain a shield.
Edit: And she can take a gunner. +2 shields a turn?

Talonbane Cobra: When attacking/defending, double his range bonus'.

Bosk: Cancel a crit, gain two hits.

"Redline": Maintain two target locks on the same ship.

And some good upgrades:

Glitterstim (Illicit): Once per game, start of combat, discard the card, treat all eyeballs (attack and defend) as hits/evades.

Plus, Called it on the Slam action!