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I'll keep posting in all these negative Wayland threads till be replies gentleman, don't worry.

Because I have an idea where they are going next, and they are planning on ruining a FLGS.

Noir wrote:
Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Actually, if you read the post by the chap from Wayland it was in response to a comment that the company was in its death throws.

It sounds like he has spoken to the OP as well, so I don't think it's unreasonably to reply if someone is making a claim that your company is about to go under?

I recently placed an order with Wayland,, last Friday in fact. I also placed an order with Element Games the next day. Both order were for various Batman Miniatures and both stores had stock levels. The status on my Wayland order still shows as payment accepted and I've emailed to get an update and had no response. So no movement on this order for a week.

Element games dispatched my order on Monday, sent me an email about 1 item out that was out of stock and that it would be sent no charge. The original order is due today and I received a shipping confirmation that the out of stock item shipped yesterday.

If I thought that Wayland looked at email correspondence, I'd cancel my order! Lesson learnt though.

Hope you get sorted OP.

Element always get my money since they answer the phone and are happy to help you match up paints which can't be found online. They sorted me out with matching GW into Vallejo when even Dakka couldn't. Not just about the discount, but it is nice

 Pacific wrote:

Noir wrote:
Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Actually, if you read the post by the chap from Wayland it was in response to a comment that the company was in its death throws.

It sounds like he has spoken to the OP as well, so I don't think it's unreasonably to reply if someone is making a claim that your company is about to go under?

Not if he knew one thing about how PR works. Like someone posted after me, he shouldn't of posted at all. You know how to answer post of going under, you don't. Sells/cost reports are all the answer needed.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Venerate1 wrote:
Surely these guys have to be in their death throes by now? Off to the cemetery reserved for companies that display wrong stock information with you!

Actually last year was one of our best yet and we are continuing to grow. We just opened another FLGS last month and have another three in various stages of planning and resourcing. We have just invested in a range of new agreements with key suppliers to help us obtain large enough quantities of stock to fulfil our huge orders each month (a key problem which is the main cause of the issues our customers have faced in the past). Our new webstore has clearer stock information too but I appreciate that as it only went live in the last month so it does not help customers with older orders.

2013 had a number of one off costs and challenges which we had to deal with. Last year was back to business and represented a real improvement in every measure for us (barring anecdotal).

For the first few months of 2015, business has been really exciting for us with massive sales growth up over 50% like for like on last year (which in itself was a good year by any measure).

Having just come back from Salute, anyone who saw us there would struggle to connect us with a notion of being in our 'death throes'. We had double the size of any other retail stand, we had close to forty staff on hand to help customers and had more stock on our stand than any other retailer. And our sales on the day were massively up on last year. In fact when you looked at our offers, there was no 'clearance' or bargain basement style promotion (which to my mind really are the sign of a failing business desperate for cash). Rather we offered value, quality and had a great time where it was really gratifying to meet the many supporters and enthusiasts of Wayland Games (few of which post on forums clearly!)

But looking at forum posts like this one, although more than a few are begun or commented on by people with interests that are envious of Wayland's success, there are genuine customers who have had retail experiences with us that were not as good as they should have been. There is no point being disingenuous and pretending otherwise. When you have a large successful business in this industry, you are ultimately judged by how well regarded every single customer finds the retail experience with you. Because of this, the two key areas I am the most keen on improving is our communication and the time it takes to get customers orders out to them. We hold a terrific amount of stock, but popular items have been going out of stock faster than we were able to get them in. We have a number of measures in place or being developed which begin to address that and I am confident that as we continue to grow those two areas will measurably improve and reflect more the excellence found elsewhere in our business.

2015 and nothing changes with you guys.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'll keep posting in all these negative Wayland threads till be replies gentleman, don't worry.

Because I have an idea where they are going next, and they are planning on ruining a FLGS.

I can assure you that we are great supporters of FLGS's as these stores are where the hobby flourishes and new players are recruited. Without a strong local presence and a place to gather, play and buy this hobby would be short lived.

 eskimo wrote:
Hope you get sorted OP.

Element always get my money since they answer the phone and are happy to help you match up paints which can't be found online. They sorted me out with matching GW into Vallejo when even Dakka couldn't. Not just about the discount, but it is nice

Our customer service team always answer the phone in office hours and are more than happy to assist with any requests and assistance we can offer.

fleegle23 wrote:
I recently placed an order with Wayland,, last Friday in fact. I also placed an order with Element Games the next day. Both order were for various Batman Miniatures and both stores had stock levels. The status on my Wayland order still shows as payment accepted and I've emailed to get an update and had no response. So no movement on this order for a week.

Element games dispatched my order on Monday, sent me an email about 1 item out that was out of stock and that it would be sent no charge. The original order is due today and I received a shipping confirmation that the out of stock item shipped yesterday.

If I thought that Wayland looked at email correspondence, I'd cancel my order! Lesson learnt though.

We do look at e-mail correspondence, simply drop us a line at support@waylandgames.co.uk or raise a ticket here: support.waylandgames.co.uk and we will be more than happy to resolve any issues you may have with your order.

I'm glad you are fans of FLGS. And I'm sure you'll know that they can't offer quite the discount and stock you can. So again, and a straight yes or no answer please, are the towns or cities you plan on opening stores at already served by a local FLGS. I don't care about GW stores.

"We do look at e-mail correspondence, simply drop us a line at support@waylandgames.co.uk or raise a ticket here: support.waylandgames.co.uk and we will be more than happy to resolve any issues you may have with your order. "

If you read my post you would see I had contacted you but had no reply. I contacted you again today to say please cancel the order, and got a message to say my order had been held up due to an item being out of stock, but you had sent the rest today. Despite this my order still says 'Payment Accepted"

Motograter wrote:
Classic wayland games. This is why people should look at reviews or any forum. They get bashed a lot for being the new maelstrom/total wargamer

Maelstrom's issues were totally different. They were great, fast and efficient - and even great at fixing up issues until right before the end, when they started lying to customers and not supplying things. Wayland's issues are a bit different, and (many of them) have been ongoing for years now. I do agree with reading reviews and getting feedback about retailers, as with any other service or product.

I'm not currently an active customer of Wayland's for reasons I've written about before, but I do order from Firestorm and Troll Trader (as well as Warlord and Foundry directly) and I've recently added Arcane Scenery & Models to my list (no discount, but free post). As with FSG and TT, they have live stock levels and my order went out just hours after placing it. I understand that Wayland's reasoning for delayed processing times is due to the size and volume of their organisation, but to me that's not my problem, and I'll all the happier to support smaller indies with my purchases.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'm glad you are fans of FLGS. And I'm sure you'll know that they can't offer quite the discount and stock you can. So again, and a straight yes or no answer please, are the towns or cities you plan on opening stores at already served by a local FLGS. I don't care about GW stores.

We have plans over the next decade to open lots of FLGS across the UK. We have identified a few sites and if you want to give me a call I'd be happy to chat about our retail strategy with you. Of course I'm not at liberty to go into detail here on an open forum, but Division Of Joy, I feel I can trust you to keep a confidence and so if you give me a call on the Wayland number we can have a chat. So I know it's you, can you ask to speak to me, Stuart, and give them your username here. They will then put you through to my red phone (the secured line) and we can talk privately. If there is a specific store you are worried about us ruining, let me know what it is called and I'll be sure to make a note of it. I'm not looking to unduly ruin anyone.

In more general terms I can't promise that those dozens of towns and cities we open in won't have another FLGS in them (London, Nottingham, Birmingham, Glasgow etc are large enough to support more than one). There are also areas where the FLGS isn't giving the best service that we think a bricks and mortar store can provide and the community has asked for us to consider putting a store there (like a fabulous blue and orange hobby life-raft).

But I can tell you that we do not specifically plan on opening stores where there is already an FLGS - it is not some kind of hideous plan for us to snuff out the FLGS across Europe. We would rather work together with FLGS across Europe as a grand coalition than for us to set about in futile competition against each other.

Building Better Worlds.

Stuart/Jake

So after a week of no movement on my order, I receive two messages within hours of each other, telling me completely different things...

Hi David,

Unfortunately one of the items in your order was not in stock when you ordered it. This has delayed the shipment of your order. I have arranged for the rest of the items to be shipped today and Clayface will follow shortly.

Kind Regards

Hi David,

Apologies for this matter as I am unable to find an email from you recently.
We are currently only missing the Arkham City Sickle and Arkham City Joker Crew.
Would you like these two items removed and credited or refunded so that the rest of you order can be shipped out to you as soon as possible?

Kind Regards

I've checked the status of the order and it has not shipped and is still showing as Payment Accepted. The order number is LDKELXHWF. Please cancel this order and refund please.
Surely you must see, a week after ordering items that were showing in stock, to have no communication until I send two requests, the second to cancel my order, is very poor service. To compound it when I do receive a reply, it's completely conflicting information.

Thanks

Same as it ever was, by the sound of things.

An amazing wall of text, containing a lot of non committal rubbish.

There's a reason I, and others in the gaming community don't want a 'chat' or anything else. Because these threads flash up on search engines. And thousands of people read them.

I hope you pick on the wrong community and get bitten on your snake like behind . You can see my location, so we'll see if it ends up near me..

The sad thing was that I used Maelstrom Games and they were the best company and their communications were second to none.

All orders were sent with 2 weeks of purchase even in the middle of your northern winter.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
An amazing wall of text, containing a lot of non committal rubbish.

There's a reason I, and others in the gaming community don't want a 'chat' or anything else. Because these threads flash up on search engines. And thousands of people read them.

I hope you pick on the wrong community and get bitten on your snake like behind . You can see my location, so we'll see if it ends up near me..

My snake-like behind? That's a little rude, sure I have a little eczema on my backside and I thought I had it under control but thanks for posting it on this thread. Now because these threads flash up on search engines literally thousands of people will read about my skin condition.

Your location is Lincolnshire right? So I guess the closest to you would be those brilliant guys at Titan Games? Fantastic store from what I hear. I can assure you that at present we have no plans to open a retail store in sunny Lichfield.

A thread highlighting exactly how communication with customers should not be done.

I buy from Element Games after a few rather lengthy delays from Wayland and a complete lack of communication on their part.

I think the longest I have ever spent between hitting "place order" and getting my stuff from Element Games has been a couple of days. An accurate stock link between website and warehouse certainly helped that I'm sure

A little advice for the Wayland rep that's commenting here.
It would go over far better if you wouldn't use humor as it seems like you're not taking complaints seriously enough. Just use simple, professional writing and you'll get much better reactions.

Lincoln actually. And fingers crossed it stays that way for both Lichfield and us.

And keep up the passive aggressive nature, this is all good search engine fodder.

As a retailer, i found this thread interesting.

Wouldn't the best way to regain some customer goodwill and combat negative posts be to just fix people's problems and ship them the items they ordered?

And the worst way to go about it be to just talk about how you are fixing things and how good you are, and then not fix those problems?

My personal guess:

Cash flow problems, and poor inventory control. It's not that stock is selling too fast. That normally just means profits come in faster as well. They probably are behind on cash flow, and even though they have the money from customers, they don't have enough to keep orders flowing in. A case of needing new orders to generate the money they need to pay for more stock.

By poor inventory control, i mean selling items that your inventory shows as in stock. This confuses the hell out of people. Ordering in stock items means your shipment goes out. Not a message a couple of weeks later that you have to wait even longer.

Lack of funds also means lack of employee hours for filling orders, making sure real inventory matches what's posted online, reading emails, and fixing problems.

The ironic thing, is that an efficiently run company makes more profits. The cashflow strapped one wastes a lot of time putting out fires, refunding money, and fixing problems. And they have less time to analyze their problems and find fixes. So neither they, nor their customers are happy about how things are running.

interesting fact, i got not a single mail answering my problems so far, but my order that i bought long time ago in another store is now on its way... says so ..;-)
we will see.
interesting fact.


wayland uses threads about bad business behaviour to advertise their new business strategy and not answering one of my posts.
they actually never adressed me.
im tempted to make a homepage with all the bad facts about wayland and spread it over facebook, twitter etc etc...
maybe this will hrt them?

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

On the plus side it's mostly just the same old stuff from the same old posters. The important bit is to keen an eye out for genuine customers with genuine concerns. Those are the ones that make checking these threads important - they are the ones who need actual help.

Just thought I'd transplant this from the other thread about Wayland's poor service as it might get missed now that it's been locked.

I hadn't participated in either thread, as I'd no particular axe to grind, Wayland seem unable to match the speed of dispatch and general support of other retailers, so I simply don't use them, but I've never felt particularly aggrieved on any time I have used them in the past.

This comment, however, I'm not prepared to let pass without comment. It seems to betray an attitude of Workshopian dimensions and frankly Stuart, if I caught one of my staff communicating this way with customers in private, let alone in the largest public forum on the planet dedicated to the market my business catered to, I'd hand down a bollocking so hard I'd render your descendants sterile.

Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

No wonder these threads keep occurring every month or two, Wayland never changes and it appears that at least one staff member doesn't seem to think that it's a problem.

Well, the hubris and disdain of the comment is Workshopian......

But whatever other complaints anyone has had about GW, it's never been about their customer service in fixing problems. They still seem to have that going for them, replacing bad product or missing pieces nearly immediately. Even now, when they only warehouse full kits, and no bitz, i'm encouraged as a retailer to fix customer problems and they reimburse me with full kits, and don't quibble about the left overs, or having damaged boxes returned to them.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
An amazing wall of text, containing a lot of non committal rubbish.

There's a reason I, and others in the gaming community don't want a 'chat' or anything else. Because these threads flash up on search engines. And thousands of people read them.

I hope you pick on the wrong community and get bitten on your snake like behind . You can see my location, so we'll see if it ends up near me..

My snake-like behind? That's a little rude, sure I have a little eczema on my backside and I thought I had it under control but thanks for posting it on this thread. Now because these threads flash up on search engines literally thousands of people will read about my skin condition.

Your location is Lincolnshire right? So I guess the closest to you would be those brilliant guys at Titan Games? Fantastic store from what I hear. I can assure you that at present we have no plans to open a retail store in sunny Lichfield.

This is exactly what a pr rep should not do.

 MWHistorian wrote:
A little advice for the Wayland rep that's commenting here.
It would go over far better if you wouldn't use humour as it seems like you're not taking complaints seriously enough. Just use simple, professional writing and you'll get much better reactions.

In all these comments there are actually only two from customers with a current issue and both were sorted as quickly as we could. I appreciate with all the other banter on the thread it makes it hard to see (and I accept I play a part in that for the casual observer).

I would say though that at no point have I used humour to downplay a customer's issue. I only tend to use it when people are either calling me a snake, telling me I'm part of some plan to ruin someone's shop or that I've got a brilliant business strategy whereby I run a multi-million pound business based on earning interest on people's orders and then cancelling them. Or that my business is about to go bust. All of which are more likely a case of the need to tilt at windmills.

Those kind of things I don't take seriously. Interestingly the people that seem to get the most upset that I'm not taking them seriously are the people who are making these bizarre allegations. But I understand how it can play out to a casual observer so I'll lower my eyebrows as I'm typing my responses to the peanut gallery in future. Besides, it makes sense that really I should focus on the occasional customer with a problem that their raise on here as we have done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

I think my point may have been lost amongst the banter. Let me be clear:

Do I believe that there is an element of forum user who enjoys the drama and general discourse on these threads and contributes even though they have no direct involvement in the issue from the OP and cannot meaningfully move the conversation forward? Absolutely.

You only have to look back to see people making reference to the fact that they've never used Wayland, but then give their opinion anyway. The nature of forums means everyone is able to give their opinion. That does not mean that they all carry equal or (for some) any weight compared to the issues raised by real customers with real concerns. There have only been two customers on this thread who have a current issue that I could affect. There were also a couple pof comments by customers that had received improving service by us and a few by customers whoi had agreat experience with us. The rest is just people giving their opinion who are either uninvolved entirely or wish to pass comment on some aspect of the conversation.

Do I believe that we need to be better at communicating with our customers? Yes of course. Do we need to get faster at getting ordered goods out? Yes we are working on improving that too.

Do I need to stop taking the bait when the same faces make the same baseless allegations... probably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterwind85 wrote:
interesting fact, i got not a single mail answering my problems so far, but my order that i bought long time ago in another store is now on its way... says so ..;-)

Apologies Winterwind85, my understanding is that you have no outstanding orders with us and everything you have ordered has been shipped last week.

If that is not the case please either PM me or get in touch with our helpdesk and we'll get it sorted.

you are such a joke man, as my first post clearly said
I WANTED A fething REFUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I BOUGHT THE ITEMS IN A DIFFRENT STORE!!!!!!
AND THE HELL YOUR fething SUPPORT DID NOT ANSWER A SINGLE E MAIL, IM WRITING TO YOU FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!
If you like i can upload all the e mails as evidence for rhe audience
pray to god we never meet in reallife man...

 winterwind85 wrote:
Im Realy Realy done with this retailer.
I ordered some City of Death buildings that got lost on the post way, not their fault... After Several Mails i got a Voucher cause i Said em i wanted to buy some space marine stuff.
Reordering the buildings from them Would have taken several weeks.
Now im waiting for my stuff for more than a month.
And it has not Even shipped!!!
If i ordered from elementgames or Even amazon i Would have Gotten my products, could have played with them and now im facing the Long planed Apokalypse game with my new blood angels in the Hope i can get my stuff painted in a hurry and get them in the local gw...
Otherwise im in real Trouble.
Sorry but Had to rage!!!
Such gak!!!

 winterwind85 wrote:
you are such a joke man, as my first post clearly said
I WANTED A fething REFUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I BOUGHT THE ITEMS IN A DIFFRENT STORE!!!!!!
AND THE HELL YOUR fething SUPPORT DID NOT ANSWER A SINGLE E MAIL, IM WRITING TO YOU FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!
If you like i can upload all the e mails as evidence for rhe audience
pray to god we never meet in reallife man...

Apologies Winterwind85, but I can't see where you had asked for a refund in your original post. My understanding is that all orders have either been shipped or refunded. If there is a particular order that hasn't either been shipped or refunded, please let us know either in a PM or on our helpdesk and I'll get it sorted out straight away for you.

Entschuldigung für die Verwirrung.

i already wrote 3 mails to your "helpdesk" asking for a refund from my last voucher, 21 pounds....

Just a casual observer putting in my 2 cents.

Stuart, this thread has turned into a perfect example of why Wayland Games should get better about answering customer complaints, promptly, and in private (email). This thread, among others, doesn't paint your company in such a great light.

I am a very small online retailer (ebay). I promptly answer any complaints a customer may have. The last thing I need, is for a disgruntled customer complaining about my store, on a public forum.

That, and false stock levels are the biggest problems WG has. These threads pop up to often for it to be coincidence.

When you tell someone you have something in stock, only to turn around and tell them it is on order, you violate a customers trust. Is that really the business model that WG wants to follow?

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

I think my point may have been lost amongst the banter. Let me be clear:

Do I believe that there is an element of forum user who enjoys the drama and general discourse on these threads and contributes even though they have no direct involvement in the issue from the OP and cannot meaningfully move the conversation forward? Absolutely.

You only have to look back to see people making reference to the fact that they've never used Wayland, but then give their opinion anyway. The nature of forums means everyone is able to give their opinion. That does not mean that they all carry equal or (for some) any weight compared to the issues raised by real customers with real concerns. There have only been two customers on this thread who have a current issue that I could affect. There were also a couple pof comments by customers that had received improving service by us and a few by customers whoi had agreat experience with us. The rest is just people giving their opinion who are either uninvolved entirely or wish to pass comment on some aspect of the conversation.

Decided not to take the advice about being professional then?

Let me be clear. As a representative of your employer, you're not allowed an opinion. Your 'banter' is undermining your position and making you come across in a manner that does you and the company you're representing no favours at all.

Every single person on this board is a potential customer or an actual one, therefore all their opinions carry weight. Your company has a problem as evidenced by the consistent appearance of threads such as this one over the entire time I've been a registered user. These threads continue to appear despite constant assurances from people like yourself that things have been updated/replaced/expanded etc, etc. You not only have a systemic problem, you've got a PR one too. People don't use you because of the reputation you've developed for being slow to dispatch and clumsy in your after sales. These people are all potential customers whose contribution you've just dismissed as 'being dramatic.'

Do I believe that we need to be better at communicating with our customers? Yes of course. Do we need to get faster at getting ordered goods out? Yes we are working on improving that too.

Well, respectfully, work harder, because whatever you're doing isn't enough. Might I suggest that pumping resources into new locations, a game development studio and any other plates that are spinning in the background before you've got this house in order isn't necessarily the correct priority?

Do I need to stop taking the bait when the same faces make the same baseless allegations... probably.

Probably?

Definitely. You're not here as an individual hobbyist, you're here as a representative of Wayland Games. You're not doing very well at that right now. I appreciate you're trying to be light hearted and friendly, but the problem with that is people who are pissed off with your service are unlikely to take a very positive view of your jocularity, much better to be polite and to the point, leave the 'bantz' for down the pub or when you're logged in under your own username and not representing the company.