First Tourney experience with Eldar (sky is not falling)

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**FratHammer**

Eldar are better across the board other than wave serpents and war walkers. So if you run a list you don't know or understand against people practicing to beat Eldar players who do, yes, you will most finally be squashed on a windshield.

Instead I recommend playing your normal Eldar list against the people you normally beat /do alright against, take your exarch upgrades, and see how much better you do.

**HawaiiMatt**

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Ghazkuul wrote:

Wraithguard...thats basically terminators and you can figure that one out on your own.

And with out that 2+ armor or even the 5+ invulnerable they fall to massed shots almost as easily and once you start ignoring their armor they fall much faster.

T6 counts for a lot. And it's pretty rough when the attached warlock rolls up the power that gives +1 armor save.
Sure they don't have power fists/thunder hammers... they've got D weapons instead.

-Matt

**Kaela_Mensha_Khaine**

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
Ghazkuul wrote:

Wraithguard...thats basically terminators and you can figure that one out on your own.

And with out that 2+ armor or even the 5+ invulnerable they fall to massed shots almost as easily and once you start ignoring their armor they fall much faster.

T6 counts for a lot. And it's pretty rough when the attached warlock rolls up the power that gives +1 armor save.
Sure they don't have power fists/thunder hammers... they've got D weapons instead.

-Matt

T6 is why I said they fall almost as easily, and the terminators roll up with invisibility or sanctuary. But yes the Wratihguard get much better with psychic support, but with out any support I think that while overpriced that TH/SS terminators will beat either version of wraithguard. Only one needs to make it into cc to destroy them or tie them up and normal ones can ignore the invuln on a 6 but do less wounds over all and against the scythes they will always have a save and while the overwatch is nasty again only one needs to make it.

**Martel732**

Or shoot them with grav. Seems to be a bit of a cure-all, unfortunately.

**RancidHate**

Mavnas wrote:
Galef wrote:
RancidHate wrote:
You brought a gargantuan creature to a 1000 pt match. That's putting roughly 30% of your whole list in 1 model. I know cavalry are fast but, a jump creature is much faster. Also, as tough as WraithKnights are, aren't Storm Shield / ThunderHammer users the 1 thing you want to avoid?

Lets play this out shall we? Assume a 6x4 board, TWC deploy first, right in the middle of their deployment zone. WK counter deploys in the left corner. Turn 1, TWC move and run straight toward the WK. The WK cannot move up the board, or along the table edge without getting CLOSER (read: within charge range) to the TWC, therefore the WK has to stays put. The TWC are just outside of charge range if they move toward the WK on turn 2. The WK CANNOT get away. TWC will charge WK on turn 3, therefore it is better to have the WK charge the TWC first (after shooting it of course).

Of course, there will be other things that will shoot at the TWC, but my point is that if the Wolf play rolls good on his save (which happens often enough) the Eldar player will not be able to avoid having the WK charged by the TWC, unless using sacrificial speed bumps.

And this was my list:

Farseer on Jetbike with spear
4 Windriders + Warlock with spear (no scatters since I planned to Jink to protect Farseer)
5 Scatterbikes
5 Scatterbikes
Crimson hunter Exarch
WriathKnight w/ shuricannons

The most the WK did the whole tourney was to kill a Nid Tyranocyte with a Hammer of Wrath, thereby getting the objective it was on. And it also got a lucky 6 to kill a Plasma Obliterator. Against the Guard player I couldn't kill the tanks by shooting them, I had to charge them.

So 3 TWC cav have 6 wounds. Scatter bikes do 2/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 4 wounds on average = .6 per bike. Two squads of 5 should wipe out the TWC in a single turn unless you are rolling poorly. Incidentally this means you've killed 240 points with 270 in a single turn (assuming they had SS and TH or 150 if they just had SS). The TWC making it into your WK intact is either horrible lack or poor target priority. Once you kill those guys, there's probably not much chance your WK will be killed at 1K points.

Now I understand bad luck. I've fired 4 heavy bolters and inflicted a single wound on enemy Scouts (12 S5 BS4 shots to inflict one wound on T4!!), but that doesn't really prove much in terms of balance.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anything TWC are a perfect illustration of why the WK + Scat Bike combo is scary.

Weight of fire is useful for bringing down things that paid a lot of their invuln saves, things that might kill the WK if they get close.

Thank you Mavnas, for pointing his incredibly bad target prioritization. I was also pointing out that his Shuriken Cannon + Sword-Shield WK and Crimson Hunter makes it about 500 points for a grand total of 10 shots, that aren't large blast, ignore cover, on 2 models. That's poor list building (if you're trying to be competitive that is). I just don't care of I sound rude anymore because, if I built a list with 40 Rangers, deployed them not in cover, aimed at vehicles and, -then- claimed Eldar aren't OP, I would -expect- criticism. I concede you are talking about individually powerful units like WK and JBikes, not Rangers but, still...

Let me be constructive, for 1000, drop the WK, Hunter and, that Warlock. With the remaining 540 or so points you could get MSU Spiders, a Serpent and Fire Dragons, or a Fire Prism for AP3 large blast... or keep the WK but use its' Wraithcannons, if they got a problem with the D, run it as S10, it'll still do the business. Just because people lost with Sagat in Vanilla SF4 doesn't mean he wasn't broken, same with Eldar

**AtoMaki**

Galef wrote:

NOTHING can out run drop pods.

Warp Spiders can.

**Galef**

RancidHate wrote:
Mavnas wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anything TWC are a perfect illustration of why the WK + Scat Bike combo is scary.

Weight of fire is useful for bringing down things that paid a lot of their invuln saves, things that might kill the WK if they get close.

Thank you Mavnas, for pointing his incredibly bad target prioritization.

For your information, I did fire all my bikes at the TWC for 2 turns. That's how I turned 6 TWC into 3 TWC. Unfortunatelty, 3+ saves are a thing. After I killed his Plasma Obliterator, the WK shot at them too. However, by my turn 2, I had to make a choice: Back up the WK to the board edge, but the TWC will still have about a 7-8" charge, or charge him and get a Hammer of Wraith + extra attack. Thinking I should at least kill 2 of them, I chose the second option. I gambled and lost.

So the lessons learned here are: don't bother bringing a WK in under 1500pts (2 Fire Prisms would have been better) and don't post "light at the end of the tunnel" threads on DakkaDakka.

**PipeAlley**

niv-mizzet wrote:
I was waiting for one of these "I totally played eldar and didn't win, they must not be OP guys!" posts.

A while back one of my friends won with his IG to a flyrant spam list in a league-tourney. They play each other a lot, so they decided to rematch those lists in funsies games. The IG were horribly slaughtered every game.

Point: one tourney of unknown size and location with players we don't know, lists we don't know, house rules we don't know, and lastly, dice luck that we don't know, is NOT a significant data point. Just like "I killed a draigostar with a unit of gretchin once" is not a significant data point.

playing against Eldar with one of the lesser armies right now is like a guardsman fighting a marine in cc. It's not impossible to for the marine to lose, but that is not the same as saying that he is stepping up to the plate with no advantage, because the eldar certainly are stepping up to the table with an innate advantage, and a pretty noticeable one.

As a counterpoint: if you've been watching Reece over at frontline, he put up a 250$ challenge to beat him while he plays eldar. He's been tearing apart some of the best players in the ITC running their best lists, including a dual-cent star and a daemon invis and 2++ reroll abuse list. (admittedly, that game was really close, but the eldar still won.)

All excellent points. However, my Grots did finish off a partially wounded unit of 5th edition Death Company, when they had to attack the closest unit, in the shooting phase. It does happen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Galef wrote:
RancidHate wrote:
Mavnas wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If anything TWC are a perfect illustration of why the WK + Scat Bike combo is scary.

Weight of fire is useful for bringing down things that paid a lot of their invuln saves, things that might kill the WK if they get close.

Thank you Mavnas, for pointing his incredibly bad target prioritization.

For your information, I did fire all my bikes at the TWC for 2 turns. That's how I turned 6 TWC into 3 TWC. Unfortunatelty, 3+ saves are a thing. After I killed his Plasma Obliterator, the WK shot at them too. However, by my turn 2, I had to make a choice: Back up the WK to the board edge, but the TWC will still have about a 7-8" charge, or charge him and get a Hammer of Wraith + extra attack. Thinking I should at least kill 2 of them, I chose the second option. I gambled and lost.

So the lessons learned here are: don't bother bringing a WK in under 1500pts (2 Fire Prisms would have been better) and don't post "light at the end of the tunnel" threads on DakkaDakka.

My point is to bring dedicated screening units for your Biggie. My Stompa (which is 200 points more than 2 WK's) always has screening Grots. And they always work and do their job, against very seasoned opponents. Feel free to bring the WK at 1000, just invest in some screens. Never not have screens protecting your Biggie.