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Don't most tournaments Ban decurion style formations? I know at least two locally that straight up forbade Decurion formation and the Eldar Copy/paste. They also put severe restrictions on Eldar player specifically. probably because Fire dragons with a +3 to Dmg table roll just seems a bit....broken.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Don't most tournaments Ban decurion style formations? I know at least two locally that straight up forbade Decurion formation and the Eldar Copy/paste. They also put severe restrictions on Eldar player specifically. probably because Fire dragons with a +3 to Dmg table roll just seems a bit....broken.

No, they don't nor should they.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Some of the people claiming Eldar aren't OP are claiming Skitaari are more OP. In certain formations I can agree, but overall, I think Eldar are much stronger.

 OrkaMorka wrote:


At one point I had a group of 18 boys, a nob with power klaw, and a warboss with power claw jump on a unit of 20 Necron Warriors.

Straight up, just troops.

After all said an done with the armour saves and rolls on reanimation, I only killed maybe...5?

The power klaw is the trump for Orks. Our ol' faithful. Out of our entire codex the Klaw is probably the pin to our lynch. The only reliable thing that meant we could KILL something if we lived through it's first strikes. I've seen Klaw's do amazing things.

But when necron warriors shrug off a power klaw (okay, now a 4+ to a 5+; big D) it's a little ridiculous. Especially since I've taken down Riptides, ripped open Land Raiders, and cut down some pretty nasty HQ's

That's their primary selling point though: they're tough. The warriors can't take special weapons, they can't take melee weapons, and they aren't as cheap as boyz or gaunts. If they're going to kill something they have to outlast it and whittle it down. Because of this, Orks are one of the best armies to fight them: those 5 warriors you killed are going to force that Necron player to make a hell of a morale check or get his entire unit swept off the board with no saves allowed (most of the time, at least). They're definitely strong in their own way, but a Necron army is rarely going to blast you off the table like certain other armies will.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Don't most tournaments Ban decurion style formations? I know at least two locally that straight up forbade Decurion formation and the Eldar Copy/paste. They also put severe restrictions on Eldar player specifically. probably because Fire dragons with a +3 to Dmg table roll just seems a bit....broken.

Fire dragons get +3 to damage chart at all times. The only thing the detatchment would do for them is give them +1 BS.

Ratflinger wrote:
The main problem with the decurion detachment is that most of the constructible lists within the formation smörgåsbord are strong and will crush other casual lists, even if one does not optimise them. Sure, you can play a minimalist reclamation legion and company it with Annihilation Nexuses, Star Gods and Death bringer flights, but I guess that would be rare.

When everyone is running harsh lists, the Necrons are no longer unbeatable, but still strong.

When it comes to getting good or complaining, one can do both. If one wants to play against tough things, like Necrons, you almost need to tighten your lists and gameplay if you care about having an even game. However, I do not see why one cannot complain about unfair things when there are so many balance discrepancies and codexes filled with terrible units.

I do concur with this sentiment. Essentially, the (valid) complaint is that with Necron and Eldar, it's really easy to build a list that curb stomps casual armies -- even though that same list may have a relatively low competitive ceiling, against "harsh lists" as you put it. TBH, I think Tau gunlines fall into this category too. They're easy to construct and obvious to play.

So just look at it another way: those so-called "top tier lists" as training wheels to getting to know the game better Once you've mastered the Decurion and understand 40k, you can go build yourself a Dark Eldar, Dark Angels, or CSM army and be all proud when you win a tournament.

I've started to feel guilty bringing wraiths in my list. I play a pretty tame list, I guess? No Decurion shenanigans, just a CAD. I mean yes, I made an army that 1) I thought would be something the Necrons would make where units synergize very well together and 2) I wanted a good bit of 36" shooting and AP2 because I feel it's one of my biggest weaknesses.

But the guys I play with casually struggle against wraiths. So I've stopped bringing them. But I'm not trying to be a WAAC guy, part of my fun is making an army that I think is effective but not tourny-level.

Does this look like an over the top list?

D Lord w/ Warscythe + Phase Shifter
Illuminor Szeras

10x Warrior w/ Ghost Ark
10x Warrior w/ Ghost Ark
15x Warriors

10x Praetorians
1x Triarch Stalker
1x Triarch Stalker

3x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
3x Wraiths w/ Whip Coils
6x Tomb Blades w/ Nebulo and Vanes

1x Heavy Destroyer
1x Heavy Destroyer
1x Heavy Destroyer

Grey Knights really bash the sad robot zombies hard.

Force/Hammerhand, get into cc, mulch things.

Dreadknights are bad news for us too.

zerosignal wrote:
Grey Knights really bash the sad robot zombies hard.

Force/Hammerhand, get into cc, mulch things.

Dreadknights are bad news for us too.

Grey Knights are one of the easiest match ups for Necrons to cope with. The Grey Knights try their crushing alpha strike, it bounces off Necron durability, then they start losing members and firepower every turn until all hope is lost. Generally it's obviously over by turn 3.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii in drop pods are just the best thing. Your entire army can be compromised of 9 drop pods with 2-3 special weapons in each pod. Either melta (blood angels), rapid fire haywire or 3-shot plasma guns. Haywire and plasma would be BS 7 due to doctrines.

So turn one you, you'll probably drop 9 plasma shots, anywhere from 6 to 12 haywire shots and 6 melta shots. Can't get rid of it because nothing is on the table at the start of your first turn.

Force weapons tend to do bad things to durability.

Not more than rending tarpits or ap2 does to Grey Knights, I would bet. I rarely get to play them, though.

Expensive units and slow like hell. Never lost agains them in objective games

DaPino wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii in drop pods are just the best thing. Your entire army can be compromised of 9 drop pods with 2-3 special weapons in each pod. Either melta (blood angels), rapid fire haywire or 3-shot plasma guns. Haywire and plasma would be BS 7 due to doctrines.

So turn one you, you'll probably drop 9 plasma shots, anywhere from 6 to 12 haywire shots and 6 melta shots. Can't get rid of it because nothing is on the table at the start of your first turn.

It's like drop pods are too good for 35 points when they're not dedicated transports and you can stuff anything you want in them...

 SilverDevilfish wrote:


It's like drop pods are too good for 35 points when they're not dedicated transports and you can stuff anything you want in them...

They're even better for ASM where they ARE DT.. and free!

Look as a Necron player I really want to say you are just having a sook over a bad game (and please excuse me for having that impression, I've seen a few examples of major butthurt over lost games) but if nothing else you have a point they are still a very powerful Codex and it isn't hard to put a tougher than nails list.
Though with things like Escalation there are easier ways of dispensing Necrons, I just had a game where my friend fielded a Baneblade and up until the last turn of the game it had blasted most of my army away with minimal effort or damage. Though even I have to admit a 230 ish point lord being able to single handedly knock of half the hull points of a superheavy tanks and survive a Titanic Explosion after that and having not lost a single would the entire game is insane

 gmaleron wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I'll take Necrons or Skitaari over Wraithknights and Eldar psychic gak.

not sure why Skitarii are even spoke of in the same breath as 'crons and eldar? are they really that good? I thought they where good but never really saw em as being that great unsupported

Skitarii when combined with the Flesh Tearers Formation is insanely dirty. You put lots of cheap 5 and ten man squads with rapid firing Haywire Rifles or x3 shot Plasma Guns in them and then boost their BS to 7 on the turn they come down, it tables almost everything.

As a BA player I am proud we excel at something: We make for a superb taxi service. Glad I chose this army instead of anything else. Now I just need to spend a few euros to get 6 more drop pods, a bunch of Skitarii and then I can compete with my BA!

Back to Necrons, GW has always loved them. No reason they will ever get nerfed. With IoM changing one codex drastically is not possible, but with xenos? Easy to introduce big changes.

Naw wrote:

Back to Necrons, GW has always loved them. No reason they will ever get nerfed.

I think most of us that played them with the 3rd edition codex till they got their update in 5th would disagree. They may not take a kick in the junk directly, but it can certainly happen through BRB and meta changes.

Trying to play them before the 3ed edition codex was even worse

Imagine: An army with no Heavy Support.

Ffyllotek wrote:
I play Necrons. Since the new codex came out I practically tabled tyrands at 1k and lost heavily to Khorne + Kane formation at 2k. Necrons are impressived, but they are not invincible. Other than the basic warrior their toys are very, very expensive.

If that were the case, I don't think you'd see so much Necron hate. Truth is, most people tend to think Crons are slightly undercosted for the majority of their units. Wraiths, Lychguard, Praetorians, generic Overlords, and Flayed Ones are a steal for the most part. True, there are a few "expensive" units, mainly their vehicles and the C'Tan, but even that is questionable in comparison to similar units in other armies.

use a nurgle demon force and toss blind grenades at them all day and laugh the whole time as they cant shoot you..

JamesJunior wrote:
Look as a Necron player I really want to say you are just having a sook over a bad game (and please excuse me for having that impression, I've seen a few examples of major butthurt over lost games) but if nothing else you have a point they are still a very powerful Codex and it isn't hard to put a tougher than nails list.
Though with things like Escalation there are easier ways of dispensing Necrons, I just had a game where my friend fielded a Baneblade and up until the last turn of the game it had blasted most of my army away with minimal effort or damage. Though even I have to admit a 230 ish point lord being able to single handedly knock of half the hull points of a superheavy tanks and survive a Titanic Explosion after that and having not lost a single would the entire game is insane

Baneblades should not be difficult for Necrons to kill at all. Also, saying that Superheavies are the way to kill Necrons is kind of stupid in it's own right. Most people don't have/want Superheavies, much less like seeing them in regular games. Plus, Necron infantry can literally hurt any superheavy in the game, even Gargantuan creatures. And if they bring some of the better formations, forget it.

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

 Zippokovich wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

I've seen this happen maybe twice. Necrons either kill enough to not have to worry about it, or just contest it. Most armies don't bring tons of Obj Sec.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

I've seen this happen maybe twice. Necrons either kill enough to not have to worry about it, or just contest it. Most armies don't bring tons of Obj Sec.

I won't disagree that most people don't take much obj sec, so the importance of it doesn't come up too much but a list with none at all is really weak to an army which makes good use of it.

I usually feel pretty safe against decurian because along slide no obj sec necrons lack the range to catch jet bikes which run away all game and come in at the end.

 Zippokovich wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:

lustigjh wrote:

 Zippokovich wrote:
Biggest problem with the decurian - no objective secured.

My issue with decurian though is that is makes all necron lists very similar and 5+ RP would have been awesome enough - 4+ is top much without the rerolling 1 stuff.

So far I have faired OK against necrons but thats mostly using new elder so cheese on cheese

No Obj sec is hardly an issue when you just shoot any contesting units off the point next turn or sic Wraiths on them

You can't do that in Maelstrom and I've never ever come up against an army with enough firepower in turn 5 on an eternal war mission to remove an obj sec jetbike rush. Even when the games go on until 6 or 7 most of them usually don't get killed. By that stage the enemy is usually so light on the ground they can't take out jinking bikes or they have one super unit left which can only engage one group. I've played games against necrons where I was doing worse in kill points but won overwhelmingly because of objective secured. In Maelstrom this advantage isn't even fair - the ability to turbo boost a cheap jetbike unit on to any objective regardless of what the necrons have there (unless they surround it 3'' deep obviously) is insane.

The way I see it with a decurian, you have a 1/6 chance of getting purge the alien and being on your home turf and a 5/6 chance of getting screwed by object secure if the enemy can capitalise on it and not just try to kill everything.

I've seen this happen maybe twice. Necrons either kill enough to not have to worry about it, or just contest it. Most armies don't bring tons of Obj Sec.

I won't disagree that most people don't take much obj sec, so the importance of it doesn't come up too much but a list with none at all is really weak to an army which makes good use of it.

I usually feel pretty safe against decurian because along slide no obj sec necrons lack the range to catch jet bikes which run away all game and come in at the end.

So to beat Necrons play Eldar?

I'm pretty sure all new codexes will get Decurion-style formations; this has happened with Eldar and Khorne.

bibotot wrote:
So seriously, why hasn't anyone talk about how OP Necrons are compared to Eldar?

Please no. The massive mass QQ about Necrons has just died down a bit, the Eldar is still ongoing.

 jreilly89 wrote:


So to beat Necrons play Eldar?

No, take advantage of their deficiencies - I'm pointing out obj sec is one of them and I'm sure other armies besides eldar can be played to make good use of it.

you could always just run without decurion and get obsec if it's such a big game-turner in your eyes.
Skitarii and Harlequinns are the only armies that literally cannot get obsec.