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Ok, didn't mean to have a long title but wanted to save your time.

I'm interested in any new or in production games that uses no lead metal or plastic miniatures. I think 28mm is a good scale. What I am particularly interested in is a game that has an interaction mechanic like De Bellis Antiquitatis, a non numerical combat resolution, or something just as interesting, and as simple.

I am looking for a skirmish level game that emphasizes unit roles, abilities and weaknesses.

"No lead metal or plastic". That doesn't really leave you any options unless you're asking about board game style wargames.

Did you mean to exclude miniature wargames?

discwars?

either the original iteration or the newish warhammer one

Pretty sure he meant "no-lead metal", as in he wants plastic minis or metal minis that have no lead in their mix.

Sorry, yes I meant metal without lead content, so plastic or metal would be fine.

DBA is a great game! Not sure of any parallels in sci fi, but Two Hour Wargames (http://www.twohourwargames.com/) has their 5150 line. You can get Chain Reaction, which is the core mechanics, for free. It is perfectly suitable on its own, but lacks the additional alien species, weapons, and detail rules of 5150. Best of all, you can use whatever figures/tokens/etc. that you want. Warzone, Mantic, WGF, Dreamforge, etc. all make plastic sci fi 28mm figs.

The interesting thing about the CR mechanics is that quality tends to mean more consistent activation and performance, but there are no guarantees and models react to each other and don't just sit there when they see an enemy, get shot at, etc. However, reactions also mean you don't always get to micro manage figures, and they tend to do things consistent with their "class" (IE civilians tend to run under fire while soldiers are much more likely to return fire).

I dont think they use lead in metal minis it went out of use in the 1980s its mostly tin as its safer and doesnt rot

jmurph wrote:DBA is a great game! Not sure of any parallels in sci fi, but Two Hour Wargames (http://www.twohourwargames.com/) has their 5150 line. You can get Chain Reaction, which is the core mechanics, for free. It is perfectly suitable on its own, but lacks the additional alien species, weapons, and detail rules of 5150. Best of all, you can use whatever figures/tokens/etc. that you want. Warzone, Mantic, WGF, Dreamforge, etc. all make plastic sci fi 28mm figs.

The interesting thing about the CR mechanics is that quality tends to mean more consistent activation and performance, but there are no guarantees and models react to each other and don't just sit there when they see an enemy, get shot at, etc. However, reactions also mean you don't always get to micro manage figures, and they tend to do things consistent with their "class" (IE civilians tend to run under fire while soldiers are much more likely to return fire).

Thank you for these suggestions. Yes the Chain Reaction thing seems similar. I will have to look at that. And wow, I saw a video review of some Dreamforge figures on Beasts of War: very cool. By the way "5150" is a great name (10 code).

dekinrie wrote:I dont think they use lead in metal minis it went out of use in the 1980s its mostly tin as its safer and doesnt rot

Yeah, I though a lot of manufacturers changed. However, I have attempted to research Corvus Belli on this point and I read that they use 5% lead. I do not know if this is true though. I would like to find an answer.

If you like DBA, then Alien Squad Leader may be for you. It's sci-fi element based and I believe has DBA as at least partial inspiration.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/15557/alien-squad-leader

Warfare in the Age of Madness is another possibility:
http://www.wargamevault.com/product/133205/Warfare-in-the-Age-of-Madness-11?term=warfare+age

I will forever maintain that Striker is the best Sci-Fi game to have ever been produced.

It is nominally 15mm (for the miniatures used), but it can be used with 10mm, 6mm, or even 25mm/28mm miniatures (which was done with Striker II.

I don't recommend using 25mm/28mm miniatures with it, but there is a Skirmish game that was done prior to it, called Ashanti High Lightning, which uses the same combat resolution mechanics, but different movement rules (each figure has a number of action points in AHL, and "actions" are simultaneous - to a point - with each player choosing an action, paying the points, and then the "phases" of the turn go by, one point at a time, until each figure's actions are complete).

Striker uses Fire Team Basing, with two to Five men per base/Fire Team, but there are instances where figures can act individually.

Due to the ground-scale, we switched to playing in 6mm with a 1:2000 (the "normal" ground scale is 1:1000) ground scale, so that vehicles could be used more easily.

The game can now be bought from Marc Miller's Far Future Enterprises.

MB

-The THW Reaction System games like 5150, has already been suggested. It wasn't my cup-o-tea when I played it, but it is really well done/developed/playtested and would definitely tick the boxes you mentioned. It's also probably the best solo-capable wargame series around. 5150 games have been written for RPG, small unit and platoon+ sizes of games.

-Tomorrow's War is another one worth checking out. It also has a reaction-style system like 5150, but not quite as involved. It's a bit more focused on the relative quality of the units involved than their fine details, but it would probably also be worth looking at.

-Infinity is a really well developed set of rules. If you dont' like lead in your minis, there are now quite a few makers of miniatures in a similar anime sci-fi aesthetic that you should have no problem finding proxies. If you don't mind the cleanup-process for plastiresin/restic miniatures the "Sedition Wars Battle For Alabaster" game box will get you 22 human-faction troopers (as well as a bunch of mutants and a game) in that style for about $30 on amazon. You can see what I did with mine here: http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.com/2015/01/sedition-wars-good-deal-for-patient.html .
The Mantic Deadzone and Warpath lines (especially rebs, Marauders and Enforcers) are also worth looking at.

-You said skirmish, but if DBA/HoTT is your flavor, then what you want is "Alien Squad Leader 2.0" http://www.15mm.co.uk/collections/alien-squad-leader-asql2-0 Very similar to those rulesets. The downside is that the minis from the publisher are metal. However, there are 10mm minis in plastic, resin and vinyl from Dropship commander (another good game, but not skirmish), CAV from Reaper is bringing out resin figs, Planetfall, etc..

games that uses no lead metal

May I ask why no lead? It's only poisonous if you ingest it and simply washing your hands after doing any filing will take care of it. Once primed, it's no danger to anyone.

Still, as has been said, there are alot of good plastic and vinyl options out there, Dreamforge, Reaper Bones (Check the IMEF and NOVA troopers) , Mantic, Wargames Factory, etc. as well as the dozens of makers of resin miniatures.

If roles are a focus, I'd highly recommend Malifaux as having a ton of non-traditional combat roles where the pieces are still effective on the board, though I guess it's closer to steampunk than sci-fi. In sci-fi, I'd echo infinity.

Thank you for all the great suggestions. I am reviewing them.

Lead: I have found varying information on lead as to its effects from ingestion, inhalation (dust) and skin absorption. While I'm not particularly concerned with its effect on me, I want zero chance of it affecting other people. Infinity figures are extremely awesome in their details and the Infinity rules look fun, maybe substitute figures is the way to go for me with that game.

Eadartri wrote:
Thank you for all the great suggestions. I am reviewing them.

Lead: I have found varying information on lead as to its effects from ingestion, inhalation (dust) and skin absorption. While I'm not particularly concerned with its effect on me, I want zero chance of it affecting other people. Infinity figures are extremely awesome in their details and the Infinity rules look fun, maybe substitute figures is the way to go for me with that game.

Lead figs really aren't harmful, but you can't put a price on peace of mind, so I understand your decision.

EDITED to remove erroneous statment about Infinity minis.

Wait. Infinity has a starter set with plastic minis? Since when?

Eadartri wrote:Thank you for all the great suggestions. I am reviewing them.

Lead: I have found varying information on lead as to its effects from ingestion, inhalation (dust) and skin absorption. While I'm not particularly concerned with its effect on me, I want zero chance of it affecting other people. Infinity figures are extremely awesome in their details and the Infinity rules look fun, maybe substitute figures is the way to go for me with that game.

All pewter miniatures contain a certain percentage of lead, it helps with detail capture and softness of material, the miniature line with most lead was R (that's why they were such a soft metal) at the % level encountered in the pewter used for models the health risk is minimal also after the models are painted the metal is effectively sealed.

Eilif wrote:

Eadartri wrote:
Thank you for all the great suggestions. I am reviewing them.

Lead: I have found varying information on lead as to its effects from ingestion, inhalation (dust) and skin absorption. While I'm not particularly concerned with its effect on me, I want zero chance of it affecting other people. Infinity figures are extremely awesome in their details and the Infinity rules look fun, maybe substitute figures is the way to go for me with that game.

Lead figs really aren't harmful, but you can't put a price on peace of mind, so I understand your decision. You will be pleased to hear that the Infinity starter set is all plastic minis.

There are not "lead figures" for a long time, the mixture used by all modern companies has some lead in it at a really small % but that does not make the models made from lead, that been said, there is no Infinity starter set that has plastic miniatures.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

There are not "lead figures" for a long time, the mixture used by all modern companies has some lead in it at a really small % but that does not make the models made from lead, that been said, there is no Infinity starter set that has plastic miniatures.

Oops, my bad. You all are correct about the infinity starer-set minis. I'll modify my post.

I could be wrong, but I believe there are quite a number of companies making minis without lead, or with lead so minute as to be practically non-existant. IIRC, the "white metal" formula of Tin Antimony Bismuth and Copper doesn't require any lead to keep from being too brittle.

Eadartri wrote:

Yeah, I though a lot of manufacturers changed. However, I have attempted to research Corvus Belli on this point and I read that they use 5% lead. I do not know if this is true though. I would like to find an answer.

It is on the card stock they close their clam shell packs with.

Eilif wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

There are not "lead figures" for a long time, the mixture used by all modern companies has some lead in it at a really small % but that does not make the models made from lead, that been said, there is no Infinity starter set that has plastic miniatures.

Oops, my bad. You all are correct about the infinity starer-set minis. I'll modify my post.

I could be wrong, but I believe there are quite a number of companies making minis without lead, or with lead so minute as to be practically non-existant. IIRC, the "white metal" formula of Tin Antimony Bismuth and Copper doesn't require any lead to keep from being too brittle.

Did you know when the law was passed in the US on lead in products, table top miniatures and collectable miniatures are one of the few product exempt from the law. The reason is detail you can not get it with out a soft metal mixed in and lead is simple the best for this, as it give a good mix of detail and durability. Without jumping the price.


OP You are more like to get poisoned by resin dust then lead in a metal model and really in less you playing with bare unpainted models you never touching the lead.

Noir wrote:


Did you know when the law was passed in the US on lead in products, table top miniatures and collectable miniatures are one of the few product exempt from the law. The reason is detail you can not get it with out a soft metal mixed in and lead is simple the best for this, as it give a good mix of detail and durability. Without jumping the price.


OP You are more like to get poisoned by resin dust then lead in a metal model and really in less you playing with bare unpainted models you never touching the lead.

IIRC these lead laws only concern toys. Miniatures, collectibles, models, etc are not considered toys. You can however get excellent detail without lead.

Very true about resin dust. Resin dust is extremely fine, many times easier to inhale/ingest/etc than lead and notably toxic.

The issue with lead miniatures being toxic to the touch, eating, etc is really only relevant if you are eating the miniatures or handling them for an extended period of time, then eating your fingers before washing them. ^_^ As long as you wash your hands, you are fine. For the most part the miniatures will not be undercoated, unless you will be playing with unpainted miniatures. Once you clean them and primer them then they are fine to touch. Although oils from your fingers can cause the paint to eventually rub off, that is why most people once they are done painting will seal them afterwards. So if you are planning to paint them, there isn't going to be a real issue. As people have pointed out there are more toxic pieces out there and I don't suggest eating any miniatures, including plastic. ^_^

Thank you for your consideration everyone. I am not debating the issue of handling or generating lead dust from working with lead content miniatures. I am looking for games which use plastic miniatures or miniatures that do not have a lead content. I have detailed my concern and I am not asserting that miniatures should not have a lead content. I am thankful for the suggestions provided and I have explored them. Any other suggestions are appreciated. Again, thank you everyone for your consideration.

Eadartri wrote:

dekinrie wrote:I dont think they use lead in metal minis it went out of use in the 1980s its mostly tin as its safer and doesnt rot

Yeah, I though a lot of manufacturers changed. However, I have attempted to research Corvus Belli on this point and I read that they use 5% lead. I do not know if this is true though. I would like to find an answer.

There was a NY state PROPOSED BAN on lead in children's toys back in the day. It NEVER passed, but the miniatures companies of the day changed metal formulations to comply just in case it had. AFTER doing so, it became not cost effective to switch back for many of them. GW had to comply as this was on the crest of the wave that propelled them into the US market and not doing so would have locked them out completely. Ral Partha was the biggest US maker at the time. GW themselves switched to a higher TIN content alloy (the minis were a LOT harder to cut, and shrapnel often flew around stores during conversion days).

A lot of OTHER miniatures makers around the world fought back with "THIS IS NOT A TOY" labelling (since it was ONLY "Toys" that would be affected by the bans). It is possible to replace the lead in the various white metal alloys (family of alloys, there is more than one "white metal") for the most part, the replacement for Lead is usually also toxic, but not in the same way.
Bismuth, for example, can be used to replace the lead - as it has similar properties, but is not an accumulative toxin (most dangerous to GROWING brains, ie - children).

"I want a science fiction game that uses plastic or non-lead metal figures."

Now specify which formulas of plastic you consider "plastic" and which you consider "resin".

Is there some reason that the game must come with miniatures made specifically for it?

MB

Eadartri wrote:
I am looking for games which use plastic miniatures or miniatures that do not have a lead content. I have detailed my concern and I am not asserting that miniatures should not have a lead content.

I would suggest sticking to plastic miniatures then, because resin, although no lead content will have just as many 'health' concerns for you.

The best bet is Chain Reaction games, getting your own miniatures since they aren't miniature specific for the game. There is Maelstroms Edge KS which just ended that has all plastic miniatures. It doesn't really have the interaction mechanic you are looking for, although suppression mechanic is interesting. There is Malifaux, just stick to the M2E, which are all plastic, that utilizes an interesting card mechanic to resolve conflicts.

I heard about the most perfectly balanced skirmish wargames. Its made in scotland and is sci-fi + fantasy + zombies + robot dinosaurs + gundam + historicals.

All the miniatures are buy one get one free.

It blends a very strategic card playing / deck building mechanic.

All miniatures are made of 100% organic non gmo fairy wings and unicorn horns. With free downloadable 3d printer files.