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How common is it to see 1st company veterans joining a strike force?

I assume that usually if space marines are required, squads from a battle company are deployed. What would warrant a 1st company squad also being deployed?

Edit: This is probably more appropriate for the background forum.

depends on the chapter, dark angels generally attack a few to each ofrce as far as I know, I don't really know any other chapters, so sorry if I can't help m8.

BTW I am flagging for this to be moved for you b0ss.

When the 1st company of a Space Marine chapter is deployed in force, something has gone terribly wrong. I imagine *Elements* of the 1st company are deployed with other battle companies as support and auxiliary elements to account for tactical flexibility on a basis as regular as situations when a few squads are not enough to handle the problem at hand. If the reserve devastator company are the only guys who can answer the call, they may send out for some assault veterans/ terminator veterans as necessary.

keep in mind that TT does not reflect marine fluff as well as it should. In most situations, maybe a tactical squad or some devs, and bike/ assault marines in forward positions are deployed and may account for 10-30 men and that is really all you need to tie up most threats the guard can't handle. Taking this further, where terminators or veterans are deployed, a singe squad is deployed at a time (because for every 1000 marines, less than 100 suits of TDA are available) and they basically single handedly solve your problems, but they get swamped hard so, you want to drop them where you think they will get it done and give them exactly one thing to do. The first company is an elite force, and they handle elite jobs like assassinations and decapitation operations where you want to be sure the guys you have will get it done.

Space hulk is the best example of this I can think of. you have six guys (5 termies+ 1 librarian) and they are up against how many hundreds of genestealers? (I know the set comes with like 20, but they respawn.) they walk in and get to a specific target at the end of the game.

I wish I had specific examples of fluff like this, actually. Will be back on this thread.

Pandorax?

Individual squads of the first company are usually spread out among the other companies to provide support and their wealth of experience. It wouldn't be odd for squads to be seen. They may even spend decades with another company or strike force.

The 1st only ever gets deployed in force when something seriously bad is going down. Heck, in general its very rare for an entire company, let alone the 1st company, to be deployed together.

The vast majority of engagements are small squad actions with no casualties. When the proverbial poop hits the fan, you might see an entire company. When you see multiple companies, it means the death of worlds. An entire chapter with the 1st in one place, thats the death of sectors. A battle that will resonate for thousands of years.

So on the scale we build our forces for games which usually includes about 20-30 marines ish per 1000pts, would a situation which requires a force of that size also require a squad of first company?

could we say 5 veterens could be deployed along side every 25 marines or something as a rule?

The reason i ask is cause i like my lists to be pretty fluffy and i'm trying to work out how often a squad of terminators or sternguard might show up

Taffy17 wrote:
The reason i ask is cause i like my lists to be pretty fluffy and i'm trying to work out how often a squad of terminators or sternguard might show up

Initially they'd be there if it was deemed necessary to deploy them (terminators in particular are pretty specialized), but once that engagement is over they might not have time to go back home before something else comes up. You go to war with the army you have and all that. Marines aren't going to skip a fight just because they don't have their favorite toys along - provided the commander sees some way to do it with what he has ofc.

It depends on the army. The Crimson Fists are disproportionately composed of veterans, so they tend to attach their Sternguard and Vanguard Veterans to other companies as the other companies are half strength at best.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It depends on the army. The Crimson Fists are disproportionately composed of veterans, so they tend to attach their Sternguard and Vanguard Veterans to other companies as the other companies are half strength at best.

I think the Salamanders are like that, too. Their 10th scout company is small but they make up for with the size of their veteran company.

I'd say you'd have a one in ten chance fir the most part.

Yea, I like to think spacemarines are more or less continually on deployment, and as the first company makes up one tenth of the chapter (assuming no losses) then a tenth of the marines 'you' might see will be from 1st company.

I think this makes sense too, games seem to be of the size where a force is a half company plus a combat squad of vets / terminators.

The chances of a Veteran joining the frey are about 1/8 the chances of regular Space Marines getting involved. Unless its DA where its guarenteed as any battle may bring news of the Fallen.

GK maybe being the exception. Their first Brotherhood isn't exactly the "Veterans" as each Brotherhood are equal in skill as per GK requirements. I guess the Paladins or Purifers are Veterans of sorts.

Space Wolves don't have a First Company, only the company of a Great Wolf so its as likely as any other company. They have Wolfguard and Long Fangs which are equivilent but that depends on the Wolf Lord's preference who to send.

Besides that, Vets only join the battles where gak needs done. Sternguard for holding lines if that line needs to be motherfething held, Vanguard if you REALLY need to take that base, and Terminators if a whole Battle Company just won't do.

It ranges from chapter to chapter. General rule of thumb is 1st company is deployed as a supporting force to the other companies.

There are exceptions like Deathwing, who seem to regularly send their full might at enemies.

While they probably would not see action as frequently as the other Companies, I'm sure 5- or 10-man teams are attached to strike forces at least half as often as Scouts.

Of course, I have always thought that if you want the most "fluffy" of Space marine forces, the army would likely have more than just Company-pure squads. There would be squads from other companies, especially the reserve ones, interspersed with the main force and so you would see squads with those companies markings.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Of course, I have always thought that if you want the most "fluffy" of Space marine forces, the army would likely have more than just Company-pure squads. There would be squads from other companies, especially the reserve ones, interspersed with the main force and so you would see squads with those companies markings.

Maybe it's closer to fluffy than some armies of people who have never thought about it, but maybe it's fluffier to always have another army made exclusively of reserve squads playing in a different table and fighting a different, less important battle. The codex says they "launch flank attacks en masse" so they wouldn't be interspersed, and are reserves that " combat unexpected enemy manoeuvres" which they should do by not being in the same battle at the same time as the battle companies.

so they should be interspersed in that they came to the system on the same ship as the battle company.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
It depends on the army. The Crimson Fists are disproportionately composed of veterans, so they tend to attach their Sternguard and Vanguard Veterans to other companies as the other companies are half strength at best.

most companies attach elements of their 1st company to each of the battle companies.

I imagine the norm is a single terminator squad. this would then allow for 60% of the first company to be kept on standby for important tasks.

The 3rd edition codex contained the full order of battle of the Ultramarines at the time. This included three task forces, describing which elements were assigned to them. While out of date, this should give an idea how marines deploy.

Joran VI retaliation force:
Armory:
10 preds
6 razors
3 LRs
4 vindis
3 WWs
5 rhinos
5 techmarnies w/18 servitors

4 librarians, 1 apothocary, 10 servo-meds

2 strike cruisers, 12 thunderhawks

1st company:
10 terminators, 2 LRs

3rd company:
Captain, chaplain, command squad
35 tac marines
20 devs
8 assault
2 dreads
6 rhinos
6 speeders
10 bikes, 2 attack bikes

10th company:
20 scouts


Protection Force - Explorator Fleet Delpa
Armory:
2 techmarines, 6 servitors

1 librarian, 1 apothocary, 5 servo-meds

3 thunderhawks

1st company
10 vets, rhino

4th company
Captain, chaplain, apoth.
30 tacs
20 assaults
6 rhinos

10th company
5 scouts

Counter-Incursion -Gerio Sector
Armory:
2 preds, 1 vindi, 1 razor, 2 techs w/4 servitors

1 Librarian, 3 servo meds

1 strike cruiser, 3 thunderhawks

1st company
5 terminators

6th
Captain, command squad
15 tacs
1 dread
1 rhino
2 speeders
5 bikes, 1 attack bike

8th company
10 assaults

9th company
5 devs

10th company
5 scouts

Now the Joran VI force is a hammer. They are going to link up with 3 guard regiments and go kick some teeth in. 10 vets, 63 battle co. troopers, 20 scouts. (plus HQs, command, etc)

The protection force is attached to a rouge trader, probably going out to stick their noses in the dark parts of the galaxy looking for trouble a/o profit. 10 vets, 50 troops, 5 scouts.

The Gerio sector force is a patrol organization. 5 vets, 30 troops, 5 scouts.

Looking at these numbers, 10 vets to a demi-company seems normal. You probably end up with 15-20 vets attached to a full battle company, which still leaves a few extra squads to shore up the reserve companies or do their own thing. From a table-top POV, including a squad of vets or two in any reasonable sized game is fine and fluffy. And considering the games we play are not supposed to be the hum-drum battles, but the critical ones, having a few extra vets show up for the fight would not be out of place.