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So, now that they're Brotherhood of Psykers etc. it's a bit annoying. Nice in someways, but annoying in others.

We now need to take at least 4 to get Mastery 2 and thus more than one power; worth it? I've just finished building my jetbike seer council, which is currently 2 Farseers and 3 Warlocks. Is it worth getting a 4th Warlock to get the extra goodies?

Thoughts?

If you're running the formation for Seer Council then you must include 5 or more warlocks. I believe it is worthwhile to take 7 warlocks in a Seer Council to make them ML 3.

For a normal unit of Farseer plus Warlock Conclave (not in the formation) I think 4 is a good number for ML2 and body count.

I'd run 6 Jetlocks led by two Jetseers.

Seer Council aside, I think you should be aiming for either 4 or 7, depending on how tight you are for points. That one extra power you unlock will come in useful and so it's definitely worth paying for that one extra warlock to bump up the unit to 4 from 3, for example.

The relevant breakpoints for jetseers seem to be:

1- Bare-bones. Keep him in reserves at the start of the game, then lark about harassing things. It’s a 50 point tax for the host, but not a terrible use of the points.

4- ML2 This seems to be the sweet spot for general use. You got some psychic umph, but aren’t hideously expensive (yet)

5- The seer formation with the two farseers minimum.

7- ML 3. Expensive, but you get to blow things away with space magic. When talking jetseers, this is 350 points for 7 wounds, so you probably need to make sure it’s protected, either with powers, or someone to soak wounds. It’s a little too many eggs in one basket for my tastes. I could see it on foot, but bikes it’s a little rich.

I think the magic numbers for a seer council are 3, 5, or 8. This way you get to keep the ML 2 and 3 through the first casualty and you won't be giving up powers as quickly.

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I think the magic numbers for a seer council are 3, 5, or 8. This way you get to keep the ML 2 and 3 through the first casualty and you won't be giving up powers as quickly.

While a noble goal, I think the cost is too high (at least for bikes). Reaching the breakpoint is more important then staying there. If you fall below, you choose which power you give up, so can toss the one that’s not as relevant to the fight. But getting to choose an extra power at the start will help you get something good.

IMHO, YMMV, etc...

I also agree about the 3/5/8 number for Warlocks. It strikes a good balance between cost, survivablility, and Warp Charge generation.

Mind you, this is only on foot. On jetbikes, I would run 5 maximum. Anything over that is simply too expensive, especially within the Warhost formations.

IMO 4 or 7 is the magic number. Due to the fact you get to choose the power you loose going down a ML is not very meaningful (you still get the same number of warp charge).

I like the seer council formation with 5 warlocks, 2 farseer in formation, and +1 additional farseer out of formation. This gives 8 models which was the traditional sweet spot but 3 of those models are farseers which are vastly better value than warlocks. That is also 13 warp charge a turn.

If you are not getting another farseer then you will probably want 3 extra warlocks.

If you are going full on deathstar then you will need a hit and run character like Bharroth as well. Then I would take between 4-8 warlocks keeping the seer council death star to less than 50% of my army list

 ansacs wrote:
I like the seer council formation with 4 warlocks, 2 farseer in formation, and +1 additional farseer out of formation. This gives 7 models which was the traditional sweet spot but 3 of those models are farseers which are vastly better value than warlocks. That is also 13 warp charge a turn.

You need 5 warlocks for the seer council

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I think the magic numbers for a seer council are 3, 5, or 8. This way you get to keep the ML 2 and 3 through the first casualty and you won't be giving up powers as quickly.

Do you lose powers if you lose Mastery Levels, then? It makes sense, but I can't find anywhere in the rules to back it up.

 The Shadow wrote:

Kaela_Mensha_Khaine wrote:
I think the magic numbers for a seer council are 3, 5, or 8. This way you get to keep the ML 2 and 3 through the first casualty and you won't be giving up powers as quickly.

Do you lose powers if you lose Mastery Levels, then? It makes sense, but I can't find anywhere in the rules to back it up.

It is in the rules for the warlock conclave.

 statu wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
I like the seer council formation with 4 warlocks, 2 farseer in formation, and +1 additional farseer out of formation. This gives 7 models which was the traditional sweet spot but 3 of those models are farseers which are vastly better value than warlocks. That is also 13 warp charge a turn.

You need 5 warlocks for the seer council

Sorry, forgot to change my number. I will edit it in my comment to avoid confusion.

Are Footlocks any good these days? I remember having fun with my Ulthwé Seer Council back in the late Cretaceous, but the game has probably power crept a bit since then.

Okapi wrote:
Are Footlocks any good these days? I remember having fun with my Ulthwé Seer Council back in the late Cretaceous, but the game has probably power crept a bit since then.

On foot the point cost gets a lot more reasonable. And the dollar cost, for what that’s worth. You trade a lot of mobility though. Psychers don’t like being shoved into boxes to move around. It limits the powers you can use quite a bit. Although eldar on foot, particuarly in the formations with the 6” run, are pretty zippy. The toughness hit is also something to consider.

Would it work well? Probably. Is it the most efficient use of points? Maybe not.