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The $115 plastic giant robot kit like the Imperial Knight or the Wraithknight with friction joints aren't "high quality". They're what anyone else would be selling as $25 fixed pose models, but they're being sold to wargamers that don't know any better.

For $115 (or much less) a person can get a model with an articulated internal skeleton, armor plates, and rubber joints so that the model can be reposed without wearing out or breaking the joints. The resin kits from Forge World had the excuse of labor prices, I don't know how anyone excuses the plastic kits.

I haven't brought as much this last 12 months from GW as I did the previous 12 months, the pick up in pace as meant I can't keep up with the painting so I opted out and now buy mostly FW instead, and at that is at a lower rate than I did before as I'm close to completing my 30k UM company.

Price isn't a massive issue for me, the rate of release is a far bigger issue as I simply can't keep up, and there is always something newer and shinier come out so I lose interest in last months release...

Marines have to be one of the easiest armies to buy second hand, strip, and repaint. I've brought Marines by the hundred and done just that, so so much cheaper.

I have not bought any since I last picked up a couple of Vampire models a year back.

My problem is the pricing. I like the models that they produce and I love the single ones for use in Dungeons and Dragons but I protest at having to pay £12 for a single middle quality resin mono-pose casting of one figure. Likewise I refuse to have to pay £18 to £22 for a single 10 man squad that lacks almost all the basic upgrades when for £24 I can get two whole squads and an extra 5 men whom can either be combined with another 5 to form a new squad, built as a command squad, built as a sniper squad, built as several characters or constructed, with the addition of another man, as a special weapons squad.

Likewise I will not pay £35 to £45 for a single tank kit that resembles a childs toy when I can get a historical tank kit in the exact same scale that full fills the exact same role and looks better and goes with my Infantry for £18 to £25. Oh, and it is a superior casting.

I buy from Warlord Games. My old Khantonian 13th regiment is being put on the back burner until prices come down. In the meantime I am building 2 armies, a German one and a British one that I can use in 40K, Bolt Action and any other historical game.
The models are cheaper, they are of the same or better quality, I get all the upgrades and more in the boxes and they look good.

GW has a LOT of catching up to do.

Still buy them. But then I fairly bew to the hobby overall. Recently bought big pack of Skitarii. But I can only wish prices were more afordable.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
In my opinion, not much comes close to GW's quality and level of detail.

 winterwind85 wrote:
There Are still People around with such low income they Cant afford gw Minis?
Spend your Time gettin a better job rather than whining in the Internet.
Sorry but so Done with mimimi i have no Money... Gw should give away Minis for free mimimi

Hi Jervis, how goes the work on White Dwarf?

The GW models and books are ridiculously good quality. But I'm saying that there is no reality where they are worth the money being charged. I believe the Eldar Codex is now £45. Ten years ago they were either £8 or £12. I respect it's been a long time, but not much else has increased in price by 400%. My wages certainly haven't. If new cars went up in price like GW products, a BMW 3-series would be £140,000 by now. Don't worry though, we'll all just get jobs as Premiership football players to afford it - if you don't you're obviously lazy and don't deserve to buy expensive stuff.

 NoPoet wrote:

 winterwind85 wrote:
There Are still People around with such low income they Cant afford gw Minis?
Spend your Time gettin a better job rather than whining in the Internet.
Sorry but so Done with mimimi i have no Money... Gw should give away Minis for free mimimi

Hi Jervis, how goes the work on White Dwarf?

The GW models and books are ridiculously good quality. But I'm saying that there is no reality where they are worth the money being charged. I believe the Eldar Codex is now £45. Ten years ago they were either £8 or £12. I respect it's been a long time, but not much else has increased in price by 400%. My wages certainly haven't. If new cars went up in price like GW products, a BMW 3-series would be £140,000 by now. Don't worry though, we'll all just get jobs as Premiership football players to afford it - if you don't you're obviously lazy and don't deserve to buy expensive stuff.

The Eldar one is £35. It is a lot, but not quite as high as you think haha. As far as 'ridiculously good quality', well they're not any better than the competition. The fluff isn't great these days and the rules are worse. PP books for example are cheaper, in full hardback still, but with the option to get them in soft back for a bit cheaper too. The fluff is good, the art is awesome, the rules are better than GW. Infinity rules are free, but the book was expensive if you wanted fluff. But you didn't need to spend the money to play the game. I mean, books really are pretty comparable price wise across games (that I play at least). I will spend a lot of money on books if I feel they're worth it, I have three of the FW Horus Heresy books at ~70 quid each; but with the GW Codexes I don't feel it's worth it. Especially when 1-2 years down the line I'll have to rebuy it anyway with little difference. With other companies your £20-30 purchase isn't obsolete within a year or two.

Its simple, you want them? You buy them.
In the reality nicht one cares if they Are to expensive for you.
You want a fast car ? You got the money? Buy a mc laren AMG or mustang. Dont got the Money? Buy a Second Hand camaro.

 winterwind85 wrote:
Its simple, you want them? You buy them.
In the reality nicht one cares if they Are to expensive for you.
You want a fast car ? You got the money? Buy a mc laren AMG or mustang. Dont got the Money? Buy a Second Hand camaro.

Did the cost=\=value point evade you completely?

 winterwind85 wrote:
Its simple, you want them? You buy them.
In the reality nicht one cares if they Are to expensive for you.
You want a fast car ? You got the money? Buy a mc laren AMG or mustang. Dont got the Money? Buy a Second Hand camaro.

So wait, your first post in this thread was serious? 100%?

Yep. About to start my third 40K army.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 winterwind85 wrote:
Its simple, you want them? You buy them.
In the reality nicht one cares if they Are to expensive for you.
You want a fast car ? You got the money? Buy a mc laren AMG or mustang. Dont got the Money? Buy a Second Hand camaro.

Did the cost=\=value point evade you completely?

Please don't feed the trolls - they aren't very bright, but they regenerate.

Since I don't care what the trolls have to say I Ignore them.

The world will be a better place that way.

The Auld Grump, the other option involves arson investigations and men in trench coats.... Ignoring them is much better.

I'm from England, if I bought a Camaro and actually drove it, it would bring the number of high-performance Chevrolets on Britain's roads to five or six

Our roads are too winding, narrow, congested and generally crap quality for American cars, which are too big, too thirsty and generally not as well made or as good handling. A car enthusiast in Britain would be better off buying a Honda Integra-R, an MG ZS V6, a Peugeot 306 GTi-6 or so on for the size, handling and fun factor. EDIT: I'm not saying all American cars are crap.

Back on topic, I can't comment on other game systems in depth but the quality of Storm of Magic, the new army books and other supplements, and the sheer fun of most GW games, are being betrayed by the ridiculous prices being charged.

Maybe if there was an explanation for why their items are doubling and quadrupling in price, in a time when people are starting to use food banks due to living in poverty (but in fairness can still afford iPhones, tablets and 40+ inch TVs), people would be happier to pay up.

 NoPoet wrote:
I'm from England, if I bought a Camaro and actually drove it, it would bring the number of high-performance Chevrolets on Britain's roads to five or six

Our roads are too winding, narrow, congested and generally crap quality for American cars, which are too big, too thirsty and generally not as well made or as good handling. A car enthusiast in Britain would be better off buying a Honda Integra-R, an MG ZS V6, a Peugeot 306 GTi-6 or so on for the size, handling and fun factor. EDIT: I'm not saying all American cars are crap.

Back on topic, I can't comment on other game systems in depth but the quality of Storm of Magic, the new army books and other supplements, and the sheer fun of most GW games, are being betrayed by the ridiculous prices being charged.

Maybe if there was an explanation for why their items are doubling and quadrupling in price, in a time when people are starting to use food banks due to living in poverty (but in fairness can still afford iPhones, tablets and 40+ inch TVs), people would be happier to pay up.

The problem is that a lot of folks disagree about the quality of the games themselves - the rules are created to spur sales more than as an entertaining game. Balance, in particular, is poor.

It is very painful for me - I started playing with 2nd edition Warhammer Fantasy, with 3rd being my favorite.

Now... I use my old Warhammer Fantasy miniatures (and many, many others) to play Kings of War - better rules, and they are free.

Because Mantic bothered playtesting out of house. Playing out of house lets the munchkins show you the tipping points in your balance of forces.

GW only tests in house, using house armies, rather than let slip the min-maxers of war.

If you like the Warhammer fluff (until 9th, when Mr. Punch throws the baby out the window) then I recommend using your Warhammer armies with Kings of War, there is even an officially unofficial list coming out for each of the Warhammer armies. (Official - they can be used in tournaments. Unofficial - they have no bearing on the Kings of War fluff.)

That way you can keep using any armies that you invested money in, rather than watch Mr. Punch wave his stick around and crow 'That's the way to do it!'

The Auld Grump - the whole idea behind 9th edition offends me.

Ha! It is like a false challenge: "Can't afford GW models? You loser!"
False.
I can get much better stuff for the same price.
Even better, it I can get good models AND play a game with rules worth playing.
As pointed out with the Vic. models you can even get something better from a different company if you want to play 40k.

Now myself, I have grabbed the latest Imperial Knight so the extra bits work well with the first IK I got but had not put together yet.
I got some Skitarii because I had wanted these guys since reading about them in BL novels, not so keen on the Mechanicus latest.

Unless it is a completely new model unlike most marines there is little need to get anything.
I have lately found other game systems to be more to my liking so 40k has taken a back burner compared to how I used to be.

Since GW is kinda confused it is easy to explain all this mess:
1) They offer models in the flavor of grim-dark, few groups do but there are some alternatives out there. They claim they are mainly a model company.
2) GW's models are by far not the best and usually 30% more expensive of similarly sized models that usually have etched metal components.
3) The added incentive are the models are used for a game where the rules are progressively becoming more convoluted with each iteration.
- They may not admit it but sales tend to boost with the next codex release so rules DO matter.

GW will not die, they will just cease to be relevant to one customer at a time...

For me it's not the money.

I can afford to buy GW models. They make some lovely models, and i've been known to pick them up just to paint. My WHFB Treeman is an example. I don't play WHFB, but it's a gorgeous model, and will see use in my Pathfinder games.

My problem is the game. 40K has lost it's appeal for me. I no longer feel like painting my horde of GW models, and am selling most of my armies off. I will keep a few to paint when the mood strikes me, but i don't need hundreds of them.

Ironically my situation is the opposite with one of the main competitors, Warmahordes.

I like the game, but hate painting the models. I'm selling off two armies just so i don't have to paint them, and because i'm overcommitted. I still have two other armies i like to play that i'm keeping.

That's not to say that WM/H doesn't have some nice models, but for that game it's the game that takes precedence, whereas for my 40K armies the look and feel is more important.

 Ascalam wrote:
I can afford to buy GW models. They make some lovely models, and i've been known to pick them up just to paint. My WHFB Treeman is an example. I don't play WHFB, but it's a gorgeous model, and will see use in my Pathfinder games.

And that is one of the important things that I think GW has lost track of - they don't want to see folks using their minis in other games.

Which is a danged shame - it is the hope of getting to play in Mummy's Mask that is spurring me to paint the Tomb Kings battalion box that I have had for umpty-ump years. (Play, not run. I only ever get to run, these days.)

Paying attention to what other corners of the tabletop gaming market is doing would help boost sales.

Instead, they are trying to get a smaller and smaller niche, for fear that people will skip the rules, and just buy the figures.

When GW had reasonably priced miniatures I used to buy them for any number of games. That was one of the prime reasons that I preferred Fantasy Battle to 40K - I could get more mileage out of the minis. (And part of the reason that my homebrew Pathfinder/3.X game is set in a 1630s equivalent.)

Now, the Perry twins and Mantic are filling that area of my gaming habit. They are the ones making minis that will see use in multiple games.

The Auld Grump

I buy them, but certainly not exclusively.
And I will admit I've put more into buying second hand, discontinued GW stuff this year than I've put into their hands (Mordians, Tanith, metal IG)...

However, it's Friday, I'm walking through town, I've just finished my sausage roll, and there's the siren call of a GW between me and the bus stop home?
At the very least I drop in for a chat, and one of the "cheaper" character models.

Compare to going home, remembering, and ordering online for something in 3-4 days time, and you have your answer.

 winterwind85 wrote:
There Are still People around with such low income they Cant afford gw Minis?
Spend your Time gettin a better job rather than whining in the Internet.
Sorry but so Done with mimimi i have no Money... Gw should give away Minis for free mimimi

Cause a "better job" is something you can just easily get.
Nothing is free, all I ever wanted was a reasonable cost.
Lots of miniature, most miniature companies, have reasonable costs, GW used to have reasonable costs (for the most part).
Or at very least, if they're gonna charge that kind of money, make the rules solid or something.

Always one of you when these threads come up.
The money was never what it was about for me, this isn't even my most expensive hobby (ball jointed dolls get that award) it was the rules.
And how much they ask for gakky rules.
I want to play, I really do, but I hate all their games, so I can't... And that sucks.

I still buy some Gw models, but only if they really catch my attention, and then I find ways of getting them for less, and do more shopping around than usual due to the prices.

Everything is either a unique model I like to adds to an army I have already got. My days of buying new armies or games from Gw are over, they priced themselves out of the running long ago. Furthermore will only possibly buy a new faction if I see a second hand buy or trade, or a cherap way in via multyiple starter sets, which I will also only buy on the cheap. This has actually been the case for over a decade.

My last retail purchased factions from GW was about fifteen years ago, and they were considered pricy then.

I consider Privateer Press to be in the same category, they attract less hate but have the same rip off pricing.

*raises hand sheepishly*

Ok, for comparison

Starter pack ariadna(Infinitiy) 48,73€ 6 monopose miniatures
Space Marine tactical squad 35€ 10 miniatures, posable and everything
Dreamforge eisenkern stormtrooper 20 miniatures 50€
20 cadians 46 €

Any questions so far?

I stopped buying from GW on principle many years ago.

At first it stung, but now I've gotten to the point that I barely even care what GW does, even from the perspective of one interested in developments in the table top gaming market. GW is becoming irrelevant by degrees.

This is one of the first GW-related threads I have clicked on in a while (other than the one one abut GW getting sued for copyright infringement, but that was for the LOLs).

I saw some Hobbit models the other week at 75% off and I was tempted to buy them on a lark since the discount was so steep. But I passed on them even as parts in the bits bin. The company just isn't doing much of anything that is exciting these days.

 winterwind85 wrote:
Ok, for comparison

Starter pack ariadna(Infinitiy) 48,73€ 6 monopose miniatures
Space Marine tactical squad 35€ 10 miniatures, posable and everything
Dreamforge eisenkern stormtrooper 20 miniatures 50€
20 cadians 46 €

Any questions so far?

Yes, what point are you trying to make?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 winterwind85 wrote:
Ok, for comparison

Starter pack ariadna(Infinitiy) 48,73€ 6 monopose miniatures
Space Marine tactical squad 35€ 10 miniatures, posable and everything
Dreamforge eisenkern stormtrooper 20 miniatures 50€
20 cadians 46 €

Any questions so far?

Yes, what point are you trying to make?

What is the level of detailing on the kits? What material are the kits made out of? What production scale does the company producing them have? Are these models even in the same scale? Is this representative of the entire range or just a couple of cherry-picked products?

Those are some of the questions that should be asked, but without well backed-up answers, there is no point in the post he made.

 winterwind85 wrote:
Ok, for comparison

Starter pack ariadna(Infinitiy) 48,73€ 6 monopose miniatures
Space Marine tactical squad 35€ 10 miniatures, posable and everything
Dreamforge eisenkern stormtrooper 20 miniatures 50€
20 cadians 46 €

Any questions so far?

A sandwich is 3$, be prepared for my army of sandwiches!

No i have stopped buying now. Too expensive to play and rules and op codex creep. Gone into ancients where things are cheaper 60 models for £30 and good balanced rules (Clash of Empires)

I would still buy GW stuff if it weren't for the confusion surrounding 9th ed WHFB. I really like the new mechanicum models, and would get an army if it weren't for the fact that I am totally uninterested in 40K as a game. I would also get the new Tech Priest just to paint in an instant if it cost around 100-150 SEK ($11-$17). But considering it costs 239 SEK ($28) at discount, I doesn't seem likely I'll buy it anytime soon...

I must say that so far this year I have purchased zero GW models. There have been a few that I wouldn't mind owning (the Ad mech stuff) but the price is just silly.

I have been buying a lot of other systems items and very happy with the choice

I have not bought any GW models for about 2 years. I did pick up the new ork codex last year, read through it and ended up just disappointed. Sold the codex and got close to getting my money back, was just happy to get rid of that codex. After reading the new ork codex it pretty much put the final nail in the coffin for playing 40k, just tired of playing codex roulette.
If GW put out good rules and tried to balance the game I would not have any problem buying their products. But as it stands right now I don't feel that Iam getting my dollars worth out of GW products. Sure GW was cool models but the game is more important to me. That's why I have no problem with spending money on PP products, I feel like I get more bang for my buck.