Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

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**Swabby**

Feth those guys and the white knights they rode in on! Also, I'm really tempted to push for a refund instead of any other option at this point. I have alot of money in wave two items in this.

**FacelessMage**

John Prins wrote:
Future predictions time: Kevin will have to sell his IPs over this debacle, No great loss, he was barely doing anything with them anyways.

I would totally buy some of his IP.

And actually try to do something with it. While mocking Palladium in the dedications in the front of the books.

**BobtheInquisitor**

I plan to propose a counter offer.

**Alpharius**

So much BS in there.

Palladium’s Business Manager, Scott Gibbons, intended to write this post, but I thought it should come from me.

1) Yeah right!
2) Is Scott Gibbons still PB's "Business Manager"

And do all of those numbers really add up? I don't think they do.

And there's SO much wrong with this entire segment:

What we can offer – Wave One Rewards for Wave Two

We know it is not what you expected, but we would like to offer you Wave One rewards in exchange for the unrealized Wave Two rewards – but you will have to pay for shipping. We estimate shipping to all 5,000+ backers around the world will cost $120,000-$160,000; and, at this point, Palladium Books just does not have the resources to cover that expense.

We will do our best to ship as inexpensively as possible, and we will only pass along our actual costs – with Palladium covering the cost of labor.

We will post the details about the reward exchange in the following update.

I would like to state that the people at Harmony Gold USA, Inc., have been wonderful partners to work with these many years. They went above and beyond the call of duty when it came to their assistance with trying to keep RRT alive. Our thanks to everyone involved.

My thanks and humble appreciation to everyone who supported Robotech® RPG Tactics. First and foremost, that includes you, our Kickstarter backers, followed by others who bought and loved RRT, everyone who had a direct hand in its creation, to play-testers, freelancers, Game Masters, and many, many others — far too many people to try to list. Literally, thousands of you. Thank you for sharing our dream. We tried our very best.

44

Wow.

With Sincere Appreciation,
Kevin SiembiedaPresident, Palladium Books, Inc.

I bet.

I think a real, full accounting is in order here.

**Seawolf**

Wow... the depth of bullgak in this is ... tremendous. Glad I gak-canned mine.

**jul**

remember the battle cry at 140$....
it's missing 150$ worth of models....

according to their pricing in #218
so we sue his ass off, he's forced to sell PB, we buy it back and let it die, slowly.....

**Kalamadea**

End of an era. Robotech RPGs and novels are 99% of my love for Robotech, I'm a very strange mix of depressed and elated to see Palladium lose that license. Those Robotech and Rifts RPG books made up a VERY unhealthy amount of this nerd's time in the late 1990s and I still keep PDFs of any book I don't have a physical copy of, but Palladium was a joke of a company for many years before the RPG Tactics fiasco.

That talk about Kevin being "heartbroken" is a bit of a kick in the teeth. "We tried our very best" he says. bs, nobody at Palladium has done anything remotely close to "tried their best" since Siege on Tolkien. The Robotech IP is much beloved, as proven by the number of backers and the dollar amount they pledged. They had all the support and more that they needed from fans, just go back through the early comments and see how many people were more than willing to volunteer time and money to write, playtest, edit, manage and more. All Kevin had to do was let other people run the show and sit back and collect money, instead he did absolutely everything he could to piss away any and all of their good intentions and push everyone with an ounce of competence away. He blames everyone but himself and now he's left with nothing but a warehouse full of dead stock and a pending lawsuit. I hope he loses everything.

**warboss**

Yup, they're really discounting how much "value" the stretch goals added into the pledge. Lol, they're even nickel and diming those of us who pledged first and got an early bird less by not giving the full value of the add ons compared to the regular later pledge on top of not spending their own left over money for shipping. The $23 I'm getting for over a dozen (maybe two dozen) missing specialty figs comes out to probably quadruple that if you go by the values per fig they charged for add ons.

Also, wanna bet that the over $300-400k unaccounted for since their two part update a few years ago was spent on wave 1 and/or operating expenses as they did nothing for years while "working" on it? We all saw this coming since 2014 except for deluded idiot savants like Peter Pidrak and the Megaversal Ambassadors who kept claiming they are still working on it. Any bets on whether Peter will apologize for his part in flame baiting unhappy customers a month or two back and for shilling for an obviously dishonest company for years?

Palladium had to have known for months that their license was NOT going to renew. That doesn't just happen overnight with a 30 day drop dead stop selling date. As with the wave split and delay, they wait to the last second to admit their feth ups.

**jul**

warboss wrote:

Palladium had to have known for months that their license was NOT going to renew. That doesn't just happen overnight with a 30 day drop dead stop selling date. As with the wave split and delay, they wait to the last second to admit their feth ups.

HG has their own legal issues, so pulling the license is a smart move for them. And then, seeing how the whole things has been handled, as a licensor, I would do anything to legally end the contract with PB...

**TalonZahn**

Man oh man...

If they thought a few of us "crappers" were a thorn in their side to be brushed off before....

The rage is coming out by the TON now.

I actually ENJOY the KS comments section again.

**warboss**

jul wrote:

HG has their own legal issues, so pulling the license is a smart move for them. And then, seeing how the whole things has been handled, as a licensor, I would do anything to legally end the contract with PB...

HG is its own similar morass of dishonesty and greed. I wrote directly to them about the issues with the kickstarter and their public nonchalant attitude about THEIR customers getting shafted and they expressed sympathy ... that's it. They realized it was affecting their bottom line but didn't obviously care enough to do anything about it. They're probably just hoping that the possibly always upcoming but never actually arriving movie will let them keep their jobs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

TalonZahn wrote:
Man oh man...

If they thought a few of us "crappers" were a thorn in their side to be brushed off before....

The rage is coming out by the TON now.

I actually ENJOY the KS comments section again.

Palladium doesn't have the time/money to fulfill their remaining contractual obligations. Any bets whether they'll find the time and effort to go through the comments and still get some removed and people they just ripped off banned?

**Genoside07**

Wow... this should have happen three years ago... Maybe I will ask for rifts stuff instead...

Don't trust the dollar numbers given... Most of the pre work should have already been paid for... as I read it but they still say
they used the money from the kickstarter.. so which is it...

They upset 5000 gamers in a very niche audience.. that's a lot of customers to lose

Oh well .. nice knowing everyone... we can go back to our lives... Maybe one day I will give the Gundum game a try...at least people are still working on it..

**TalonZahn**

I need someone to post one of those 98% done, and mouthwatering updates...

I might piss myself laughing if it makes it to the KS comments somehow.

**jul**

warboss wrote:
jul wrote:

HG has their own legal issues, so pulling the license is a smart move for them. And then, seeing how the whole things has been handled, as a licensor, I would do anything to legally end the contract with PB...

HG is its own similar morass of dishonesty and greed. I wrote directly to them about the issues with the kickstarter and their public nonchalant attitude about THEIR customers getting shafted and they expressed sympathy ... that's it. They realized it was affecting their bottom line but didn't obviously care enough to do anything about it. They're probably just hoping that the possibly always upcoming but never actually arriving movie will let them keep their jobs.

Totally agree! I particularly like the part when HG was caught laundering money with Berlusconi....
anyway, it make a good reading for the evening. I might have mentioned that before, I would have loved the game to be good and the models to be great...

**Stormonu**

So, a little math based on the pie chart....if we can believe any of Kevin's BS

$601,711.39 for Manufacturing (including Wave 1 product)
$364,193.74 for Design (and ND's cut)
$221,683.14 for Shipping (of which, ~$150,000 was international shipping, leaving $71,683.14 for domestic shipping costs)
$158,345.10 for Licensing (only 10%? Boy, HG is cheap...do they know they only got 10%?)
$110,841.57 for Kickstarter fees
$47,503.53 for Project Manager (Scott's salary? Nah, probably Kevin's)
$47,503.53 for Advertising and Promotion (Playing cards, cups, t-shirts, etc. I'm sure...)
$31,669.02 for Pledge Manager fees

**TalonZahn**

Someone that knows Forar needs to call and check on him.

He might have passed out from the "Admissions" Update.

**warboss**

Stormonu wrote:
So, a little math based on the pie chart....if we can believe any of Kevin's BS

$601,711.39 for Manufacturing (including Wave 1 product)
$364,193.74 for Design (and ND's cut)
$221,683.14 for Shipping (of which, ~$150,000 was international shipping, leaving $71,683.14 for domestic shipping costs)
$158,345.10 for Licensing (only 10%? Boy, HG is cheap...do they know they only got 10%?)
$110,841.57 for Kickstarter fees
$47,503.53 for Project Manager (Scott's salary? Nah, probably Kevin's)
$47,503.53 for Advertising and Promotion (Playing cards, cups, t-shirts, etc. I'm sure...)
$31,669.02 for Pledge Manager fees

I'm on mobile right now but it might be interesting if someone at a full pc compared the numbers claimed here to those during that two part history of everything it's not our fault update back in 2015. I'm curious if and how much the numbers have been fudged in Palladium's favor during the intervening two years and a half years with nothing to show for it.

**Tamwulf**

I'm never buying another Palladium product ever again. The sheer audacity to blame others and throw an entire company they sub-contracted out to under the bus and not accept even the tiniest bit of responsibility for this

up ... that's a really weak and spineless leader who will amount to nothing.

I want my remaining $400 in wave 2 pledge money refunded in cash.

you and your gracious offer to sell us Wave 1 product at MSRP and pay for shipping just so you can get it out of your warehouse.

This entire Kickstarter has been a

show from the beginning. I'm finally glad it's over, and hope the legal proceedings against Palladium and it's owner can now begin.

**jul**

warboss wrote:
Stormonu wrote:
So, a little math based on the pie chart....if we can believe any of Kevin's BS

$601,711.39 for Manufacturing (including Wave 1 product)
$364,193.74 for Design (and ND's cut)
$221,683.14 for Shipping (of which, ~$150,000 was international shipping, leaving $71,683.14 for domestic shipping costs)
$158,345.10 for Licensing (only 10%? Boy, HG is cheap...do they know they only got 10%?)
$110,841.57 for Kickstarter fees
$47,503.53 for Project Manager (Scott's salary? Nah, probably Kevin's)
$47,503.53 for Advertising and Promotion (Playing cards, cups, t-shirts, etc. I'm sure...)
$31,669.02 for Pledge Manager fees

I'm on mobile right now but it might be interesting if someone at a full pc compared the numbers claimed here to those during that two part history of everything it's not our fault update back in 2015. I'm curious if and how much the numbers have been fudged in Palladium's favor during the intervening two years and a half years with nothing to show for it.

it's almost doubled...
Update #178, June 2015
"When we started to get serious about Robotech® RPG Tactics™, talks naturally segued into how do we afford all this? Ninja Division estimated the cost to be between $550,000 and $900,000 to make the game and expansion packs we all wanted to see made. And not just enough to provide to the Kickstarter backers, but enough to get the game into the retail market. "

**Forar**

TalonZahn wrote:
Someone that knows Forar needs to call and check on him.

He might have passed out from the "Admissions" Update.

Heh, Morgan just brought it to my attention. I was happily watching Last Week Tonight and building Shadows of Brimstone minis (two things I enjoy, rather than this gakshow which is basically an unpaid academic internship).

Wow. Just... there's a lot to unpack here, but as others have noted, it is *unmitigated bullgak* that they give us a pro-rated amount in credit, but charge full MSRP for compensation. I'm owed something around $400-500 based on their own math, and 5-6 core boxes doesn't quite cover it, especially since I'd apparently have to pitch in another couple hundred bucks in shipping. Feth that.

So, the project has officially failed. Feth compensation in materials. I'll take a pro-rated refund, or even a portion thereof, over paying more money for more boxes of stuff I don't want, can't use, and can't resell because unlike wave one, they're about to flood the market in a fire sale.

Seeing the numbers broken down (the percentages they included versus the expected amounts from the total funding) raises so many questions. Also, keep in mind they should be higher; according to Wayne they brought in about 10% more through the Pledge Manager, so let's not overlook that extra $100k+ that they're commenting on Pledge Manager Fees but isn't accounted for in those amounts.

That'd mean spending somewhere around $52k in advertising? Bullgak. Where? They whined about wasting money advertising RRT in magazines in late 2013, and that was like hundreds or thousands. I'm wary of believing they spent over 50 grand in advertising this game. I'm also questioning ND getting 300k+ for their work. Maybe they did, but that feels like they're fudging what they had to pay out substantially.

In summary... it feels good to know that I was right to call them out on their bullgak. It's a hollow victory, but thousands of gamers got *screwed* here, myself among them. I'll take what tiny victories I can.

**TalonZahn**

Good old Bad_Syntax is in there defending Palladium to the last.

He was "just on the phone with Kevin" an hour ago.

He's happy with trade off for more Wave 1 items.

Also, you're all idiots for not understanding Kickstarter and Venture Capital.

**jul**

Saw that... calling the Kickstarter a success is a bit, how to say, delusional.... I have other words coming to mind but it doesn’t Translate well into English....

**JohnHwangDD**

I'm assuming those percentages were pulled out of thin air.

Also, excludes the monies diverted to fund the completion of RIFTS NG 1 & 2.

But includes Kickstarter monies used to produce non-KS retail product.

Is that about right?

**Forar**

Agreed, they are either pulled out of thin air, or they have the numbers to work out the percentages.

So, give us the numbers. And account for the pledge manager funds, because otherwise that seems like it could be another $100k+ unaccounted for, and I wouldn't put it past these clowns to try to quietly walk off with that pile of cash left over and conveniently not mentioned in the alleged 'coming clean'.

**Elbows**

I thought I heard Kevin conveniently moved into a new house as well during this debacle...surely none of the money went there, right? I hope that was a silly rumour, but I doubt it.

**JohnHwangDD**

Link to the FB group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/510264239170789/

**NTRabbit**

Siembieda is a liar and a thief. feth him and his company.

**Stormonu**

I was looking for core box numbers and ran across this fun little jem I posted on 5/24/2015....

Just some random musings (which I'm probably wrong on):

Looking back at update #156, there is a picture of crates marked "Main Box". There is 3 per crate, and 5824 crates. That's 17,472 core game boxes created for Wave 1. Of those, 6,684 for reserved for backers. That means, not counting anyone who sought a refund, they have 10,788 core sets to get rid of - not counting who knows how many add-on boxes. Personally, I'd be surprised if more than half (5,000) of those boxes went out to retail stores. If productions costs are right at 50% (which have got to be MUCH lower), it's pretty obvious they blew through the funds on getting Wave 1 out the door (at 50%, that would be $873,163.20 for core boxes - not likely that high, I think).

Compare that to what Kevin said in the last e-mail murmur that one of their typical book runs is in the 300-600 print range. Their typical book sells for $15-20, so that's about $4,500 to $12,000 net from a book run, which might give them somewhere between $2,250 - $6,000 profit (if their lucky). Unfortunately, I don't know how long it takes them to go through a print run, but I gander it's 3-6 months at best. So, from a single book they're possibly making between $375 - $2,000 a month per "new" book. I imagine that books that are 6+ months old sell only a handful of copies apiece ... don't have any idea what their sell rate is, but assuming between 1-5 copies per title, we're looking at 196 titles @ $15-20 each ($2,940 - $19,600 net total, $1,470 - $9,800 profit at 50%).

Finally, in the last murmur where Kevin mentions crowdfunding the next OH, it sounds like there were about 70 people in attendance. My local Hubcon is about that size and that's 2/3ths the size of my graduating High School class from 86' in Mississippi! At $60 a head (when prices went up), that means they raked in somewhere around $4,200 (probably less) net. And they only do this once every three years or so.

Why do I mention all this? Well, if the cost of the figures for Wave 2 are anywhere near the costs for Wave 1 (assuming they blew the $1.4M wad on the first run), look at what sort of skyscraper Palladium is looking at to acquire the funds to pay for it. If my seat-of-the-pants calculations are anywhere close, PB is looking at 147+ months (12 years, 3 months) to rebuild the capital to produce Wave 2 from its "day to day" sales.

If anyone has some better/closer numbers on what PB earns, I'd certainly like to hear it, because those numbers above certainly do not inspire confidence for PB completing Wave 2.

Looks like I was at least 20% off on my calculation for manufacturing cost, but if you take the 17,472 core boxes and the manufacturing cost (yeah, I know - I should factor in the add-on boxes, but feth it), at most it cost $34.44 to make each core box (factoring in add-ons at about 20%, that'd make each core box about $25 to manufacture).

Don't know what my point is other than they are really trying to get away with "pennies on the dollar" on remaining stock. I hope they get stuck with that stock and buried under it. It'll hopefully take the place of those E.T. cartridges in some landfill.

**warboss**

He'll sell it to his girlfriend, employees, family, and/or fan friends for a penny on the dollar the day of the deadline and ebay will get flooded with this gak over the next couple of months as they try to sell it. Who knows... maybe their ol' pal Kevin will even get an extra special early totally unrelated birthday gift in 2018 too. Either way, between all the circle of postive reinforcement around Kevin plus bulk online clearance retailers, I doubt Palladium will be destroying any remaining stock.

Also, remember all that talk about robotech heating up and selling like hotcakes during the sales? What happened to those profits? We, as backers, possibly paid for the development/production/shipping of those retail boxes and the profits from those direct sales should have been used for paying for our shipping right now.

**Swabby**

Is it just me or are the values owed listed on the update way, way low in the offered exchange?