Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dakkamite wrote:
If your under 40 and can't get a hold of this dataslate within a few months I gotta say losing at 40k is probably the least of your issues

Wait... under or over 40... crap... I have OTHER issues? <dialing grimdark psychiatrist, Dr Neckbeard>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ConanMan wrote:

jSewell wrote:
Honestly, I think all models should be able to assault from deep strike, but yes, the formation is a little overly strong and probably primarily because it is a Webstore exclusive, not that that means you'll have to buy it to see the rules

Actually I think you do, you need to buy the set to have the rules sheet to bring it out in a game, it is actually mini dex in that respect.

Got a BRB page number on that imperative declaration, amigo?

Since when do people get to "Decide" what rules they are going to play against? If someone wants to run a Seere council on jet bikes, I just play them. It's their army and as long as it is legal and within the bounds of the rules (i.e FW or a formation) they can play that. If I lose oh well I learned something and will do better next time, if I win. I'm a boss and by myself a Coke.

Marines have not had a great formation or attack tactic like this since i can't remember when. I can't wait to try it out.

I am still just wondering what happened to cover and bubble wrap for a number of the people posting on this thread. People keep bandying about number of casualties in the upper 30's however if you bother to use even a 5+ cover then you will drop these casualties by at least 10. If you are smart you will GtG as soon as a grav dev unit shoots at the unit and this will cut the damage by another 5 models. You can even use your own cheap disposable units to provide cover and keep the assault marines away from valuable targets.

For IG players this is the the grav version of this formation is a joke to play against. Just deploy some of those IG infantry squads to act as bubble wrap slightly less than 4" away from your important stuff (assault squad of 5 models needs a minimum of 4" space between units to not mishap). The grav will probably kill a non super heavy per every 3 grav cannons but you can work around that with appropriate LoS blocking terrain and reserves.

 ansacs wrote:
I am still just wondering what happened to cover and bubble wrap for a number of the people posting on this thread. People keep bandying about number of casualties in the upper 30's however if you bother to use even a 5+ cover then you will drop these casualties by at least 10. If you are smart you will GtG as soon as a grav dev unit shoots at the unit and this will cut the damage by another 5 models. You can even use your own cheap disposable units to provide cover and keep the assault marines away from valuable targets.

For IG players this is the the grav version of this formation is a joke to play against. Just deploy some of those IG infantry squads to act as bubble wrap slightly less than 4" away from your important stuff (assault squad of 5 models needs a minimum of 4" space between units to not mishap). The grav will probably kill a non super heavy per every 3 grav cannons but you can work around that with appropriate LoS blocking terrain and reserves.

Well for marine armies, our bubble wrap is still (mostly) overly expensive guys in power armor, so they can still do heavy damage by shooting at the bubble wrap itself. And if they're shooting at an important Devastator unit or tank, 5+ cover is NOT going to cut it anyway. 4 grav cannons would overkill by such a degree that you'll still lose your tank/squad even when passing a good amount of the cover saves.

Yes there are armies and builds that skyhammer doesn't perform stellar against. That doesn't mean it's not broken.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Black Dragon wrote:
Since when do people get to "Decide" what rules they are going to play against? If someone wants to run a Seere council on jet bikes, I just play them. It's their army and as long as it is legal and within the bounds of the rules (i.e FW or a formation) they can play that. If I lose oh well I learned something and will do better next time, if I win. I'm a boss and by myself a Coke.

Marines have not had a great formation or attack tactic like this since i can't remember when. I can't wait to try it out.

After a while of losing to things that are clearly out of balance with your own army, the novelty DOES wear off. If you're the type of player that is perfectly fine lining up your army to reenact an "Alamo-esque" last stand and be a piñata for the opponent, then more power to you. Some people actually want a balanced game and not the "forge the narrative" stuff.

9 Skitarii Vanguard: omnispex; 3× plasma caliver; + 1 Vanguard Alpha (Warlord)
9 Skitarii Vanguard: omnispex; 3× arc rifle; + 1 Vanguard Alpha
9 Skitarii Vanguard: omnispex; 3× arc rifle; + 1 Vanguard Alpha
9 Skitarii Vanguard: omnispex; 3× arc rifle; + 1 Vanguard Alpha

Sanguinary Priest: chainsword; auspex

4 Tactical Marines: + 1 Space Marine Sergeant
• Drop Pod

Drop Pod
Drop Pod
Drop Pod
Drop Pod
Drop Pod
Drop Pod

10 Assault Marines: 2× flamer
5 Assault Marines: 2× flamer

10 Devastator Marines: 4x grav-cannon
•Drop Pod
10 Devastator Marines: 4x grav-cannon
•Drop Pod

40 points left. All marines combat squaded. Null deployment.
6 pods( skitari+dev) and 15 ASM, coming in.

Deshkar wrote:


40 points left. All marines combat squaded. Null deployment.
6 pods( skitari+dev) and 15 ASM, coming in.

Inquisitor with 3 servo-skulls for 34 pts.

It turns out the way people were getting the Skyhammer rule "leaks" was simply reading the JPG off the Games Workshop website. LOL.

So save it and print it and have your own (legal, by any definition) copy of the formation.

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99020101090_SkyhammerAnnihilationForce02.jpg



PS - All I did was right click the image thumbnail on the product listing and choose "open in new tab". Original image is embedded from GW's site for the product listing.

ConanMan wrote:


Actually I think you do, you need to buy the set to have the rules sheet to bring it out in a game, it is actually mini dex in that respect.

Got a BRB page number on that imperative declaration, amigo?

You are seriously asking if I have a BRB citation for having to have a codex and a rulebook when playing my army in the shop? Whhhhaaa??

Listen: if you went to a gw TOURNAMENT and used that FORMATION in your list they would want to SEE THE SHEET. That goes for gw stores in a memo too i'll bet

niv-mizzet wrote:
Yes there are armies and builds that skyhammer doesn't perform stellar against. That doesn't mean it's not broken.

Yep. And this is the same complaint people had with Eldar, that it's just too good for the points cost. It's not going to table you or win every game, it's just significantly better than it should be. I'm definitely in the "ban" crowd on this one...partially due to it's webstore exclusive status, and partly due to how OP it is.

Warhammer 40K is rapidly becoming a game where whoever gets to shoot first, wins. I really wish the pre-necron codex trend had continued because that was a game I actually was enjoying. With the exception of Decurion necrons and a few superheavies; deepstriking grav, scatter lasers, and D-weapons have made durability non-existent. It's purely a game of offense and timing now.

niv-mizzet wrote:Well for marine armies, our bubble wrap is still (mostly) overly expensive guys in power armor, so they can still do heavy damage by shooting at the bubble wrap itself. And if they're shooting at an important Devastator unit or tank, 5+ cover is NOT going to cut it anyway. 4 grav cannons would overkill by such a degree that you'll still lose your tank/squad even when passing a good amount of the cover saves.

Yes there are armies and builds that skyhammer doesn't perform stellar against. That doesn't mean it's not broken.

This isn't necessarily true. With combat squads and either TAC marines (use the squads without the special weapon + combi on the board) and scout squads the devs will come down and deal little to no meaningful damage if they kill bubble wrap. If the assault marines charge then they are not good against other SM units. The interesting thing is that if you are taking 60 scouts anyways you can actually space them out in such a way to keep units from being able to DS within ~24" range depending on terrain.

Heck, the grav devs will on average fail to kill a 5 man scout squad if they bother to GtG in regular ruins, a buffed terrain, camo cloaks + any terrain, or fortification. Rhino, drop pod (just drop empty pods turn 1 and walk the units on), and razorback based SM builds can make the multiple Skyhammer Annihiltion Force lists posted here look silly.

These lists are definitely DS based lists and the tactics that work against them work here. However failure does punish the unprepared more than your typical drop pod SM TAC list.

ConanMan wrote:

ConanMan wrote:


Actually I think you do, you need to buy the set to have the rules sheet to bring it out in a game, it is actually mini dex in that respect.

Got a BRB page number on that imperative declaration, amigo?

You are seriously asking if I have a BRB citation for having to have a codex and a rulebook when playing my army in the shop? Whhhhaaa??

Listen: if you went to a gw TOURNAMENT and used that FORMATION in your list they would want to SEE THE SHEET. That goes for gw stores in a memo too i'll bet

GW organizing tournaments? What is this, did we go back in time to the 90´s? I have a pretty good quality copy of the sheet on my home pc so photocopying that would certainly be enough. They can't possibly expect you to carry around a priceless, 1-in-200 limited run item, can they? What if you lost it and you'd NEVER EVER be able to use the rules that everyone already knows? And besides, one of the main principles of a justice state is that the burden of proof doesn't rest on the defendant. They have to prove that you're guilty, you don't have to prove your innocence.

GW Stores individually organize local tournaments (or events, or whatever). It's on the calendar of ours, anyhow

What's curious is it's never 1850. They do 1,000, 2000, 3000, etc.

I think most of the people freaking out here A.never played 4th edition(outflanking gene stealers anyone) and B. Have gotten so used to not being assaulted that they forgot how to deal with it.

Seriously outside of the grav Devs turn 1 fire power it's really not worth he points. Assault marines still suck in close combat, hey can't get a meaningful number of damage dealing weapons

 Leth wrote:
I think most of the people freaking out here A.never played 4th edition(outflanking gene stealers anyone) and B. Have gotten so used to not being assaulted that they forgot how to deal with it.

Seriously outside of the grav Devs turn 1 fire power it's really not worth he points. Assault marines still suck in close combat, hey can't get a meaningful number of damage dealing weapons

I think they can, in most cases, erase more than their points cost though, and you get 2 more pods that don't go against the total. Plus, the Assault guys you don't even need to upgrade (maybe one powerfist or something if you want to punch stuff and at least be a threat). Just use them to tarpit stuff that you don't want to deal with for a couple of turns.

Incidentally, whatever it is, GW did a good job on selling an otherwise crap bundle. It' sold out, lol.

 Talys wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think most of the people freaking out here A.never played 4th edition(outflanking gene stealers anyone) and B. Have gotten so used to not being assaulted that they forgot how to deal with it.

Seriously outside of the grav Devs turn 1 fire power it's really not worth he points. Assault marines still suck in close combat, hey can't get a meaningful number of damage dealing weapons

I think they can, in most cases, erase more than their points cost though, and you get 2 more pods that don't go against the total. Plus, the Assault guys you don't even need to upgrade (maybe one powerfist or something if you want to punch stuff and at least be a threat). Just use them to tarpit stuff that you don't want to deal with for a couple of turns.

Incidentally, whatever it is, GW did a good job on selling an otherwise crap bundle. It' sold out, lol.

If you dont have elements in your army that can kill 5 assault marines in round of combat, I think that is more of an issue with your army composition.

Yea and if it was just the devastators I would agree. However the issue is that grav cannons are very expensive, for 4 you are putting 140 points into a unit. Thats 420 put on 10 marine bodies. Now assuming you max out that is 560, add in two pods and its 630. That is 1/3 of your army. Now that's before the 170 points you have to use on assault marines. All of a sudden we are approaching the 1/2 way mark for you army.

I think it is powerful yes, however I don't think it is the end all be all. Secondly you have to declare during deployment which turn the unit is coming in. Now if you deploy first I now know if nearly half your army is going to be off the board for a guaranteed turn or is going to show up turn two. Having to declare during your deployment phase gives your opponent plenty of opportunities to counter deploy and prepare. It also leaves the rest of your army exposed for a turn if you are not going first.

Hmm, I see nothing about having to take full squads in those rules. So even lower ASM tax.

I still fail to see why the SM players needed yet another buff. And all the arguments given here have so far failed to budge me.
This formation is broken. End of.
I can only hope that we IG players get something as broken as it in the very near future. Something better than our two crap formations one of which is an overly expensive if portable defence and the other of which grants 4 special rules to 6 battle tanks, a Hydra and a command tank. 4 special rules of which only two can actually be used by the vehicles.

You are not thinking in the 7th edition mindset. Your IG are Imperial, and you can include this exact formation into your army and they are Battle Brothers. Allies are simply a part of the game now and there is really nothing other than personal preference to not utilize those rules.

 master of ordinance wrote:
I still fail to see why the SM players needed yet another buff. And all the arguments given here have so far failed to budge me.
This formation is broken. End of.
I can only hope that we IG players get something as broken as it in the very near future. Something better than our two crap formations one of which is an overly expensive if portable defence and the other of which grants 4 special rules to 6 battle tanks, a Hydra and a command tank. 4 special rules of which only two can actually be used by the vehicles.

You're not forging the narrative hard enough!

tedurur wrote:
Hmm, I see nothing about having to take full squads in those rules. So even lower ASM tax.

They have to take jump packs so 85 base each

I'm just going to revert to the days of Modern Warfare 2 and begin casually mocking people (eg, noobtubes) who contribute to the decline of the game by applauding GW for giving them cheese lists like this.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I still fail to see why the SM players needed yet another buff. And all the arguments given here have so far failed to budge me.
This formation is broken. End of.
I can only hope that we IG players get something as broken as it in the very near future. Something better than our two crap formations one of which is an overly expensive if portable defence and the other of which grants 4 special rules to 6 battle tanks, a Hydra and a command tank. 4 special rules of which only two can actually be used by the vehicles.

You're not forging the narrative hard enough!

Bubutbut the rules state - DAMN THE RULES, WHO DO YOU THINK I AM, ON OF THOSE NON SPACE MARINE PLAYING PEASANTS?!

That said all joking aside, this 'Forge the Narrative' stuff seems to be just yet another way for GW to forcibly push their hardon for Space Marines down our throats. Unless I can 'Forge the Narrative' and give all my tanks 10HP and armour 15 on the front?.....

Gee, Jetbikes with Scatterlasers and Distortion weapons seem like such a long time ago now.

Any bets on whether it will be all about Dark Angels' new super duper formation next week?

I'm not sure what all the vitriol about this formation is anyways. YES, it's good. But it's not like taking Skyhammer is going to guarantee you victory. Why shouldn't armies get nice things?

After having played skyhammer formation vs eldar and the cheesecakeiest army our grey knights could muster I have to deem this formation ridiculously strong. It's literally a leaf blower, even more so as ultra marines.

By the way, for those who haven't noticed, the Skyhammer Annihilation Force is now sold-out on the gee-dubs USA website. I guess it's limited edition now, too?

Edit:
Also, sigging this.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
7th edition 40k is a lot like BDSM these days. Only play with people you know and develop a safe word for when things get too intense. And It doesn't hurt to be a sadist or masochist as well.

Its always been LE I thought.

The article mentions joining characters to it. Has that been discussed? They can't arrive turn 1, and can't charge when they come in, right? If they attach a character?

 Spellbound wrote:
The article mentions joining characters to it. Has that been discussed? They can't arrive turn 1, and can't charge when they come in, right? If they attach a character?

Combined Reserved Units Informs us that any ICs that joins the Skyhammer formation while in reserve would indeed arrive with the formation on the turn the formation arrived.

SJ

The rules for independent characters state they can't join unless the IC also has deepstrike for the assault marines at least. You can't just have non jump pack independent charscters appearing for no reason.

The drop pods however are open to abuse. Relentless is a shared usr.

The droppods are filled with all 10 devastators, and I think that is the transport capacity?