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Made in ca
Swift Swooping Hawk





 pretre wrote:
Can spiders make their move if they G2G?


With an Exarch the Spiders automatically pass their morale, pinning and regroup tests. Does not matter if it is on 3D6.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





On the other hand, a naked 5-man ASM squad will do nasty things to a Warp Spider squad in Assault, Exarch or no. So they probably won't get shot at at all.
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa





I think most armies will have a reasonable counter without having to literally make your list all about it.

DE - generally low saves and jink will help mitigate Grav, not to mention that the Covens formations have models with relatively low saves for their toughest units, with FNP being the real save. Grotesquerie and CTC will hardly be phased by grav and some puny ASM. "oh you want to come to me? please be my guest, my slow moving hulks are more than happy to oblige!"
Orks - MSU, Grav? oh no I lost some trukks. oh no now your charging me? again they will generally die quickly, but the formation (unless you stuff more points into it) wont have the volume to deal with mass units of orks in trukks. Not to mention the ability to bubblewrap and make some difficult places to DS.
IG - the ability to get back up, meatshields and cover saves
Crons - well jink once again for vehicles, a couple deathmark units to help soften grav squads, yeh the ASM will be nasty, but still manageable.

I think the main thing is; the meta will adjust as per usual. If this becomes prevalent then we will see lists that tailor more towards countering it. I know people always say a list ain't good if tailored for 1 other list, but in reality all lists change when a powerful new build appears. The changes may be small, but you always do it, when making a tournament list you will consider what your going to see and plan accordingly, hence why surprise lists like Greentide, lictorshame and other things that generally fall outside of the typical meta are viable. They nullify some of the choices your TAC list made.

Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

 
   
Made in no
Sister Oh-So Repentia




Norway

My thoughts on countering the formation as an eldar player are these:

4 Wraith Knights on the table and 1 windrider formation in reserve. Glaive version of the night might even be best here, 5+ inv and 5+ fnp. Keep one or two with wraith cannons and keep these in 4+ cover, or in reserves (you can even deepstrike one if you are daring). Think farseer would be best here, guide is really good on knights, and if you get fortune then one of them will be invincible.

3 units of wraithguard in serpents and 2 Night Spinners, both with butt facing table edge and hope he has more grav than melta. I would also add a bunker + ammo storage with dark reapers (amazing against regular marines), the bunker mostly so they can survive the alpha, but also for that 2x S9 Ap2 intercept and being able to reroll 1s when using the 2x S5 Ap3 profiles against marines/bikes (making exarch twin linked). Everything starts on the table. Variable would be adding D-Scythes or not, and using a spiritseer (as well as farseer) or not.

2 bastions with dark reapers, probably with void shields, these start on the table. Then add 3 falcons with fire dragons that can deep strike without scatter. Autarch with fusion gun, or warp pack thingy and death spinner. If you are allowed to bring two of the same formation then I think a unit of warp spiders is best, you don't need more anti tank, you don't need more mass ap2/3, you need more volume of fire. If you can only take one aspect formation, then put the fire dragons here, give reapers ammo storage in bastions, and buy more bikes that you keep in reserve. Bastions are nice in that they have 360 degree coverage, the disadvantage is a 75points price, and that max 2-4 reapers will ever be able to shoot out the windows on any one side.

Another fortification option is to go for wall of martyrs. Advantage is 3 S9 icarus with 2x shots, ignore jink and intercept with 3 units of reapers, where up to 8 can shoot out the windows. Disadvantage is that the certaing fortifications in the formation are useless and you end up paying for a lot of cover saves that you will not be using, and the bunkers only face one way so drop pods behind the building can only get hit by the icarus. So you might have to place the builings too far back for the reapers to cover the whole map, or you have to face one of the bunkers back towards your backline. It would also be harder to afford fire dragons. However, you can add and probably should add scorpions on the battlements. 2+ cover, rerollable overwatch and stubborn.

I also agree with Okapi that making a list around scorpions could be really good. Mandiblasters make them good against charging assault marines with HoW, 2+ cover makes them good against grav and melta. Arguably you should bring two full units because of the volume of fire they are facing, which could get expensive, but all the options against skyhammer are expensive,.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/18 14:42:49


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Orlando

MSU. Hold your valuable units in reserve. Do as much damage as you can to the rest of the force in the mean time.

If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM! 
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Anoka County, MN

Can someone tell me what's the preferred Dev load out? Is it Grav cannons? With amps? How do they work against Models with no save? (Grots)

Fighting crime in a future time! 
   
Made in us
Badass "Sister Sin"






Camas, WA

 PipeAlley wrote:
Can someone tell me what's the preferred Dev load out? Is it Grav cannons? With amps? How do they work against Models with no save? (Grots)

I prefer MM for this formation.

Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Grot Snipa





 PipeAlley wrote:
Can someone tell me what's the preferred Dev load out? Is it Grav cannons? With amps? How do they work against Models with no save? (Grots)


I assume the worst roll you can make is a 6+, so it would be 6+, same way worst to wound roll you can have is a 6+?

From the grav wiki - "instead rolls the target's armor save up to a minimum of 6+".

Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.

 
   
Made in us
Implacable Black Templar Initiate




Central Illinois

I would actually consider 10 man dev squads to combat squad and a mix of weapons for variety. If the ASM are not loading up on flamers they are doing it wrong. A 5 man squad has 2 flamers and a combi flamer. That is a lot of flamers to remove low armor save chaff to get to the big stuff. I would even consider deathwind launchers on the pod.

Words of wisdom by Prophet40k

That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.


Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL"  
   
Made in no
Sister Oh-So Repentia




Norway

 PipeAlley wrote:
Can someone tell me what's the preferred Dev load out? Is it Grav cannons? With amps? How do they work against Models with no save? (Grots)


I don't know the costs of the weapons, but I would assume a mix of Grav and MM on squads of Devs and Centeurions to cover all bases. Grav on centeurions is probably better, but I think you can run melta on the assault centeurions, so you might want to put grav on devestators anyway.
   
Made in us
Scuttling Genestealer




adrift in a warm place

My plan for this is bringing an endless swarm. "Oh whats that? You just killed 90 gaunts with your alpha strike? Well lets see if you can kill 45 gaunts on turn 2! Ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaaaa


12,000 7,000 3,000 (harlies) 2,000 
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Anoka County, MN

 Acidian wrote:
 PipeAlley wrote:
Can someone tell me what's the preferred Dev load out? Is it Grav cannons? With amps? How do they work against Models with no save? (Grots)


I don't know the costs of the weapons, but I would assume a mix of Grav and MM on squads of Devs and Centeurions to cover all bases. Grav on centeurions is probably better, but I think you can run melta on the assault centeurions, so you might want to put grav on devestators anyway.


Well this is great news then!! Grav and MM will be next to useless against 4+ cover save 6+ armor save models and Flamers will be wounding on 6's against T7 Mek Gun grots. Thank you!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 19:15:33


Fighting crime in a future time! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control




Southampton, New Jersey

ASM sergeants can't get Combi weapons IIRC. Also, unless you are trying to use up 10 pts, 2 flamers on the ASMs probably isn't worth it. You want them to get into combat the turn they come in and knocking off the enemy or two on the charge is going to make the charge distance even more difficult. That's not including the terrible risk of deepstriking close enough for the flamers to actually reach. Too much risk, so little reward. I have tried running them with 2 evis's on each squad, but it's so expensive. I might just run 10man squads with a meltabomb. All marines come with grenades and a decent number of attacks. If Devs make them GtG, the reroll to hit and wound help. If you're running into fearless armies that don't GtG, you might want to consider running with the Tactical Doctrine or even the Assault Doctrine that turn. Rerolling 1's to hit in shooting and assaults help.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Those T7 mek guns are going to be jucy targets for small ASM squads to charge...
   
Made in no
Sister Oh-So Repentia




Norway

It occured to me that skyhammer vs tau would probably be a lot of fun for the tau player. 9 broadsides with 72? twin-linked missiles and 2 riptides with velocity tracker (gives intercept). Would of course be better if the tau gets to go first so he is able to nova the riptide weapons, then you have 12 shots with rending or S9 Large Blast AP2 you can blow all over the assault marines, devestators or centeurions.

Off course, if even 1 assault marine makes it into assault then the that unit is lost for the rest of the battle.
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Anoka County, MN

Bharring wrote:
Those T7 mek guns are going to be jucy targets for small ASM squads to charge...


Good! They'll either be single Kannon mobz or 5 Gunz with a DLS MA Big MeK with Killsaw. Looking forward to it.

Fighting crime in a future time! 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






 Acidian wrote:
It occured to me that skyhammer vs tau would probably be a lot of fun for the tau player. 9 broadsides with 72? twin-linked missiles and 2 riptides with velocity tracker (gives intercept). Would of course be better if the tau gets to go first so he is able to nova the riptide weapons, then you have 12 shots with rending or S9 Large Blast AP2 you can blow all over the assault marines, devestators or centeurions.

Off course, if even 1 assault marine makes it into assault then the that unit is lost for the rest of the battle.


VT gives you Skyfire.

EWO gives you the intercept.

But this is an obvious counter to reserves.

Though you wont be getter ignore cover so they can easily drop in behind terrain (unless bad luck)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Do people really consider the Assault Marines that scary? I mean, they're better than Marines, but they're not Vanguard or highly specialized Assault unit. Best they can do it 1 Eviscerator per 5 dudes and a Power weapon on the Sergeant, right?

As for Crons, I wouldn't even care that much. Decurion, starting in cover. Cover and 4+++ just laughs at most Alpha Strikes that aren't StrD. I realize most other armies can't do that, but hey, Crons are Crons.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Assault marines are scary to models that want to be shooting. Just like Wraiths are aren't super deadly, they are good tie up units. And they might sweep a unit or two.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Requizen wrote:
Do people really consider the Assault Marines that scary? I mean, they're better than Marines, but they're not Vanguard or highly specialized Assault unit. Best they can do it 1 Eviscerator per 5 dudes and a Power weapon on the Sergeant, right?

As for Crons, I wouldn't even care that much. Decurion, starting in cover. Cover and 4+++ just laughs at most Alpha Strikes that aren't StrD. I realize most other armies can't do that, but hey, Crons are Crons.


Lets also not forget that they can just mass charge a bunch of vehicles and plant potato grenades down av10 exaust pipes. (Especially the jinky kind)

It can also be very useful to try and knock out a special character or hold units in place for other heavy hitters to run up and charge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/19 16:41:09


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




I suppose that's true. I'm just more scared of the Relentless Devestators with Pinning than I am of the ASM, by a long shot.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Requizen wrote:
I suppose that's true. I'm just more scared of the Relentless Devestators with Pinning than I am of the ASM, by a long shot.


Actually if we are talking pre new book eldar serpents than this would of been amazing to get rid of them.

But now that they are nerfed we have to settle on them going after other targets.

Wonder what else would be good to Assault.

Rear armor vehicle assault is 1.
Small grouping of Things that rely on Cover to live (Mandrakes, jinky things)
most Basic troops.

Oh Artillery would be very good to assault.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Jetbikes?

Most things that aren't terrified of the Devs?

ASMs are great for countering a lot of potential counters for Skyhammer.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Well On jet bikes.

DE would be hurt the most since paper armor :/

Eldar with 3+ armor saves and hit and run probably wont care as much though will proably lose like 2-4 models with enough ap3+ weapons

Necrons still have there dumb 4+ 4++ for most attacks but dont they come in low model count units?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I meant ASM assaulting. ASM beat Jetbikes in CC by a great margin on the charge.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Desubot wrote:
Well On jet bikes.

DE would be hurt the most since paper armor :/

Eldar with 3+ armor saves and hit and run probably wont care as much though will proably lose like 2-4 models with enough ap3+ weapons

Necrons still have there dumb 4+ 4++ for most attacks but dont they come in low model count units?


Warriors are 10-20, Immortals are 3+/4+++ and 5-10. Most of their other Infantry is 5-10 as well.
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter






Requizen wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
Well On jet bikes.

DE would be hurt the most since paper armor :/

Eldar with 3+ armor saves and hit and run probably wont care as much though will proably lose like 2-4 models with enough ap3+ weapons

Necrons still have there dumb 4+ 4++ for most attacks but dont they come in low model count units?


Warriors are 10-20, Immortals are 3+/4+++ and 5-10. Most of their other Infantry is 5-10 as well.


Jet bikes. not warriors.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





It takes what, 4-5 ASM assaulting a 10-man Windrider Jetbike squad to win in CC?

How many does it take to win against 10-20 Necron Warriors?
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard




 Desubot wrote:
Requizen wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
Well On jet bikes.

DE would be hurt the most since paper armor :/

Eldar with 3+ armor saves and hit and run probably wont care as much though will proably lose like 2-4 models with enough ap3+ weapons

Necrons still have there dumb 4+ 4++ for most attacks but dont they come in low model count units?


Warriors are 10-20, Immortals are 3+/4+++ and 5-10. Most of their other Infantry is 5-10 as well.


Jet bikes. not warriors.


Ah. Tomb Blades are 3-9, and can take 3+ armor (and Stealth, but then you'd lose out on Ignores Cover, which sucks).
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Bharring wrote:
Jetbikes?

Most things that aren't terrified of the Devs?

ASMs are great for countering a lot of potential counters for Skyhammer.


ASM and "great" in the same sentence seems like a stretch. Have you ever used ASM? They rank as "pitiful" on the scale of CC units in the game. Even the BA ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/19 17:43:27


 
   
 
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