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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 21:40:14
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Sinewy Scourge
Commoragh (closer to the bottom)
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So there Is really no way to tell a FW model from a recast once it has been painted? I got a model from what I thought was FW, and it was almost exactly the same size/feel and look as a FW. But it was a recast , according to the seller
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Wyzilla wrote:Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 21:49:14
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Post painting probably not.
I think its possible to weight it. but am not sure
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Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 21:59:16
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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DaKKaLAnce wrote:So there Is really no way to tell a FW model from a recast once it has been painted? I got a model from what I thought was FW, and it was almost exactly the same size/feel and look as a FW. But it was a recast , according to the seller At least he/she was willing to tell you it's a recast; if the seller didn't say he could have sold it for much more. Desubot wrote:Post painting probably not. I think its possible to weight it. but am not sure The material used are different, and probably weight differently too; but I doubt it'd be that much. If some one sold you a painted recast model and you weighted it, and somehow know the "correct" weight of that model, the seller could just tell you he used some metal pins/paper clips to secure the the connection areas.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/16 22:02:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 22:01:22
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Hivefleet Oblivion wrote: tenebre wrote:
echo .... also every recast i have seen or accidentally purchased was always inferior to FW. i honestly think people praising recasts are either insane or selling recasts.
there are some weird recast white knights. THey claim that a second generation copy is somehow superior in crispness to the original - and don't even mention problems such as the fact that some parts come out incredibly thin, or even that the recast is physically smaller than the original.
Compare a FW original and a recast side by side and you'll see the latter is distinctly smaller, I guess because the resin shrinks a certain amount during the curing.
It doesn't generally work like that, by pure virtue of the fact that FW also have to make multiple copies from one green. Let me illustrate.
A sculptor makes a model. FW makes a mold, and pumps out say, eighty copies before the mold is destroyed through use. They then start to use those eighty created models to make a new mold each, so as to minimise the wear and tear on the original. Each of those new molds will give us eighty more copies of that model.
That gives us eighty molds, giving us eighty models each, for a total of 6400 models for sale, of which our recaster will buy two. We're only on a third generation here, so the model is virtually identical.
Our recaster will then go through the same process, meaning that the models you buy from him will only be fifth generation. And fifth generation is close enough that any shrinkage/erosion of detail will be absolutely minor (I know, because I've done it to fourth generation, and I daresay FW & professionals do it better than me). From what I've heard, you need to be approaching something in the order of tenth generation before that sort of thing becomes an issue, and there's rarely a need to go that far, purely because they're aren't tens of thousands of people buying each model.
I suppose it is possible that a recaster could be trying to recast another recasters wares, and take it up to seventh or eighth generation models. You might notice some very minor shrinkage then, but I've yet to see anything like that in person.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/16 22:02:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 22:16:49
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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I have measured an original vs a recast, and on small items, ie figures, there is a detectable size difference. I would guess it's a couple of a percent. Quite a lot of recasts do have a distinct look and thin panels, etc, it's a well-known phenomenon and has been the case on most I've seen.
I'm not the only one who's noticed: check this out, http://mgmpainting.com/2013/11/29/recast-forge-world-miniatures/
Perhaps it's because of the distinct process they use, rather than the nth generation issue. thanks for the info , if true that's interesting, but the fact remains recasts will, on average, be at least one generation further from the original. Does that make them drastically worse? Not necessarily. Does that make them better? 'Course not.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 22:31:38
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:I have measured an original vs a recast, and on small items, ie figures, there is a detectable size difference. I would guess it's a couple of a percent. Quite a lot of recasts do have a distinct look and thin panels, etc, it's a well-known phenomenon and has been the case on most I've seen.
I'm not the only one who's noticed: check this out, http://mgmpainting.com/2013/11/29/recast-forge-world-miniatures/
Perhaps it's because of the distinct process they use, rather than the nth generation issue. thanks for the info , if true that's interesting, but the fact remains recasts will, on average, be at least one generation further from the original. Does that make them drastically worse? Not necessarily. Does that make them better? 'Course not.
To my knowledge, their process is the same as anyone else who does it en masse, primarily silicon rubber molds, vaccuum pumps, and degassing chambers. Resin casting isn't difficult once you get the process down, there's a reason it's the production method of choice for most small gaming companies.
It does however, come down to a large extent to the dedication of the person doing the casting. If they pay close attention, get their timings right, lay out the mold properly, and so forth, a good quality model is practically guaranteed. FW is guilty of sometimes sending out miscast or badly cast items, which is nothing to do with the process, but rather the inattention of the casters and poor quality control. They'll usually happily replace anything once you point it out to them, but it is an inconvenience.
Recasters on the other hand, vary wildly. If they're the fly by night operations who don't have the high end gear, and aren't very experienced/don't care, you get a warped monstrosity covered in air bubbles that you have no hope with, that they won't replace. On the flip side, some operations are very smooth, give replacements, and have less quality issues than FW do.
Speaking purely anecdotally, the worse ones I've seen tend to come from Singapore, followed by Russia/the Ukraine. The Chinese ones tend to be the best quality, but every so often you run into someone from there who's doing recasts of recasts (probably due to difficulty in acquiring originals), which you rarely encounter anywhere else.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/16 22:34:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/16 23:27:04
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:I have measured an original vs a recast, and on small items, ie figures, there is a detectable size difference. I would guess it's a couple of a percent. Quite a lot of recasts do have a distinct look and thin panels, etc, it's a well-known phenomenon and has been the case on most I've seen.
I'm not the only one who's noticed: check this out, http://mgmpainting.com/2013/11/29/recast-forge-world-miniatures/
Perhaps it's because of the distinct process they use, rather than the nth generation issue. thanks for the info , if true that's interesting, but the fact remains recasts will, on average, be at least one generation further from the original. Does that make them drastically worse? Not necessarily. Does that make them better? 'Course not.
No, what makes them better is the bends, twists and glitches are fixed before the master is made, and the casting tends not to replicate them further.
Some even partially assemble parts on some kits, which loses nothing but saves time.
Is every recast kit better than every original kit? Do they assemble themselves and guarantee a GD winner? No, but there are occasions where there is a demonstrable, measurable, improvement over the original in some form or another, and there's certainly no instance I've encountered where a recast was measurably inferior, which is more pertinent.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 01:29:04
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Three Color Minimum
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you can not even go by them being in the original packaging to decide if it is legit or not ... a few years back i ordered some terrain parts that were in the bag from ebay ... when i got them in, they looked odd (at the time it was white resin when most of FW was grey, so i contacted them directly about it ... and confirmed that they were not legit ...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 01:42:23
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
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Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:I have measured an original vs a recast, and on small items, ie figures, there is a detectable size difference. I would guess it's a couple of a percent. Quite a lot of recasts do have a distinct look and thin panels, etc, it's a well-known phenomenon and has been the case on most I've seen.
I'm not the only one who's noticed: check this out, http://mgmpainting.com/2013/11/29/recast-forge-world-miniatures/
Perhaps it's because of the distinct process they use, rather than the nth generation issue. thanks for the info , if true that's interesting, but the fact remains recasts will, on average, be at least one generation further from the original. Does that make them drastically worse? Not necessarily. Does that make them better? 'Course not.
That post says nothing about shrinkage or models being smaller...About parts being thinner sure, but not models being smaller.
That being said, some recasters will get it right, some won't. At the same time, I've had stuff directly from FW that's matched some of those descriptors, so please, please stop trying to prove that you're right about parts being smaller and know what you're talking about. Your posts are assuming all recasters use the exact same materials and the exact same techniques (IE: there is only one recaster!). Better yet, you're saying that on a single miniature you can detect a 2% size difference and 100% know it's not because of casting issues? A small bubble taking out a very small part of a foot accounts for that.
At the end of the day, if it's from Russia or China and is at a deep discount (or sometimes even when they're from other countries at a deep discount), it's probably a recast.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/17 01:46:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 12:32:40
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Unless you take a scale that is accurate to less than a gram to the FLGS or tournament with you, you won't be able to tell the difference between a plastic marine and a resin forgery.
A drop pod or land raider might have the weight difference, but not a single dude.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 13:19:50
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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troa wrote:
That being said, some recasters will get it right, some won't. At the same time, I've had stuff directly from FW that's matched some of those descriptors, so please, please stop trying to prove that you're right about parts being smaller and know what you're talking about. Your posts are assuming all recasters use the exact same materials and the exact same techniques (IE: there is only one recaster!). Better yet, you're saying that on a single miniature you can detect a 2% size difference and 100% know it's not because of casting issues?
Better yet, no I'm not saying that, am I? But feel free to get your knickers in a twist aout what you've imagined people said.
Nowhere am I saying that recasts will auto-destruct, nor did I suggest that every recast is the same. Note the words "quite a lot of:" Actually, I didn't say I could directly detect a recast - what I'm saying is that I've compared parts directly and saw a detectable difference - I doubt very much I could spot one without a comparison.
I am merely pointing out the ludicrousness of those who claim a 2nd generation copy is superior to an original. But by all means go on claiming, those who want to, it's very entertaining.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/17 13:21:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 13:43:23
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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But you are making the assumption that "superior" refers exclusively to the level of detail, and I've already pointed out that it doesn't. Automatically Appended Next Post: For instance, I know of one recaster that embeds brass rod into the legs of his Heirophants, solving one of the critical issues with the model (heavy resin body on spindly resin legs) in a manner which would be near impossible for a home hobbyist to achieve.
How is that not superior to the original?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/17 14:19:49
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 15:36:52
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
I am merely pointing out the ludicrousness of those who claim a 2nd generation copy is superior to an original. But by all means go on claiming, those who want to, it's very entertaining.
Second generation is what Forgeworld uses to make the molds for the production models. You mean fifth- gen to third gen at best, and I've handled enough fifth gen models to know there's not really a size or detail difference in the way you're claiming. Later generations potentially, but not fifth or six gen.
Just to reiterate, the quality of the cast tends to usually be down to variability of experience/attention in producing the model, as opposed to a 'generational problem'. That can be a problem, but it's reasonably rare these days (I would hypothesize it's because most of the poor quality producers have actually been forced out of the market by the higher quality ones).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 15:53:25
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
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I just add this from my own experiences:
1. I have seen multiple authentic FW items next to Chinese forged items and in many cases the Chinese stuff was of equal or better quality.
2. Ive received authentic FW that was oddly colored. I've seen Chinese/Russian pieces that are the exact same color as authentic FW's typical dark gray color.
2. I have very rarely personally seen anyone receive a "gak" copy from china/ebay. I'm sure it can happen, but I haven't seen it often.
I personally however have gotten gak pieces (bad casts, airt bubbles, missing and broken pieces) direct from FW a number of times and then had to wait many weeks to get replacements and after multiple emails and calls. I ordered a book as an x-mas present that had about thirty pages missing and had to jump through hoops and talk to them multiple times to get a replacement that came many weeks later. And FW doesn't make it up to you in any way in my experiences. I've seen Chinese/Russian suppliers send free/extra pieces with their replacements when they mess up. Just saying...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/17 15:54:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/17 16:44:37
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Sometimes it's difficult to spot the difference, others it very obvious to spot a recast, I'm currently writing an article on whether or not it damages the hobby or if it's having an affect at all, I was asking people for their experiences and from which closed sites they had used (to stop other from using the article to find these sites) sandy j was shut down on dakka immediately, but as a brief summary of what ive found so far from Warseer and other sites is that people who want recasts, will always have gone for them, you obviously get a middle ground with people who feel they have been pushed out of the hobby to recasts (I don't care or want people's opinions on whether this is justifiable, trying to remain impartial and not judge), then you seem to get 2 types who won't use recasts, the first do so because of some moral high ground (again, don't want any opinions on that either) and others who are happy to pay for the real thing.
All opinions have shown they have merits and demerits, from what I've found so far is that if you see fw at even a slight discount (5-25%) and not bnib, it's almost certainly a recast and buyer beware, you pay that extra 5-25% (average) for a guarantee of quality, at least that is supposed to be the case, fw returns policy is very good, however so are the recasters from what I've been told, almost identical infact, that means you are basically paying for the speed at which you receive your products, 3-8 weeks seems to be the average for recasters, much much faster for fw, another thing to consider is that of course gw/fw actually make these things in the first place, they design, produce etc. These items and that costs a moderate amount, but back to my original point, recasts are cheaper, for a reason, be this quality of materials, sculpts or just plain trying to scam you (several people have had this issue), none of which is really an issue with fw, well.. Apart from bad sculpts, but they happily fix that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 12:00:31
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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I definitely would not consider shrinkage to be a useful discriminator for a recast.
While it's true that most resins do shrink as a principle, the amount is tiny - for example, Alumilite is .005 shrinkage per inch maximum.
On a space marine sized model, we're talking a bit over a 10th of a millimeter - about the thickness of a strand of hair from an Asian. On a 4.5" long Rhino, it's half a millimeter. On a 10.5 inch tall Warhound, it's 1.2mm. So, "distinctly smaller" - no.
I think the simplest test is the easiest one; as Kronk laid out before: Is it new? Is it Forgeworld? Does it cost more than x percent less than Forgeworld, who never discount ever? If so, it's a recast.
In the US there is no penalty for owning a recast.
Once painted and sealed, there is no greater danger from a recast than there is from an original - which is to say you should be wearing a dust mast when sanding either of them.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 17:56:28
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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I Did not read all the posts in the thread, but recently i've made a serious research about recaster distributors from China and here are my 5 cents:
Pros
- They are not smaller, they are the exact same size as the originals.
- They come in large parts, so you can avoid the assembling hell that I went into with my Tac Squad. So many arm sets and little parts that you can miss.
- Sometimes the price is 1/3 of the original... GW item 15 dollars - Recaster is 5 dollars.
And the Cons.... man they are maaany:
- For some reason the cost of some models is exactly the same as GW and it's totaly pointles to invest in risen, when you can have the original. GW squad = 21. Recast = 21 too... does not make much sense, but it's true.
- It's a 50/50 chance that you will recieve pure gak. Models come with bubles in the rezin.
- It's another 50/50 chance that the model will come completely destroy.
- Because China is far and those people do not speak english well (not that mine is perfect, i dont wanna run into any discrimination topics) a lot of mistakes happens. You order Tau but recieve Chaos Cultists instead.
- Do you really wanna wait 7 to 8 weeks to recieve something wrapped in nylon bubble bag.
- Speaking of the above - no assembly instrctions. When recieving infantry this is not much of a problem, as I said above one SM arrives in 3 parts, but if you order something Larger - Imperial Knight... then you have a problem.
I was warned about the risk of cancer and Im still not 100% sure about that. Anyway, Im kinda not sure if it was a good Idea to post such a thread. I hope I wont be stoned to dead by admins and GW loyalists.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/20 17:58:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 18:15:33
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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tenebre wrote:Tydil wrote:You say they might not be recasts but I'll tell you they definitely are. They are. Don't doubt it. There are a lot of recasters over there especially for forge world. You can even find recasters in the US and other countries. I saw one post where the seller said all the items were cut from sprue. I asked if they were recasts and instead of being calm he got defensive and told me to go to somewhere. I played the fool and he explained that it's to save shipping cost. I just dont believe him.
There are two ways to get fw stuff: buy from fw, or have a very good eye. You should look for double mold lines which would indicate recasting. Different colors of resin from the fw pictures are a dead give away. Any seller who has a lot of fw items for sale at a discount is selling recasts. You will only get real fw at a discount buying from people who bought from fw and what to sell the item. They won't have many postings.
Buying recast items, especially FW models, is so popular that you probably shouldn't trust an eBay seller. Think of it this way: would you spend that much on a mini, paint it like junk or not at all, and then sell it at a huge loss on ebay? Neither would they, it's a recast. It's a shame but that's the way it is for people who want to support a company.
As for resin and your health. Resin is not particularly bad for you after it's cured and just sitting there. Some resin is even nontoxic after it cures. The real danger is in particles of resin from filing or sanding that get into your lungs. The small particles are sharp at their level and cut you up. They're also heavy and don't easily leave your lungs. If you work with a lot of resin in this way you should wear a mask just like you would for sanding wood or metal.
Recasters, no matter where, use whatever resin is cheapest. People report that the resin from china often smells like gasoline. Recasters from the US have fewer options for resin and they are safer for you. That doesn't make them good though.
echo .... also every recast i have seen or accidentally purchased was always inferior to FW. i honestly think people praising recasts are either insane or selling recasts.
Or your personal opinions, are simply that. Ive bought recasts, Ive bought FW. FW models come with a guarantee, but often come with breaks and bubbles. Recasts Ive bought online tend not to. So thats my opinion. From experience.
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 19:17:28
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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DalinCriid wrote:I Did not read all the posts in the thread, but recently i've made a serious research about recaster distributors from China and here are my 5 cents:
Pros
- They are not smaller, they are the exact same size as the originals.
- They come in large parts, so you can avoid the assembling hell that I went into with my Tac Squad. So many arm sets and little parts that you can miss.
- Sometimes the price is 1/3 of the original... GW item 15 dollars - Recaster is 5 dollars.
And the Cons.... man they are maaany:
- For some reason the cost of some models is exactly the same as GW and it's totaly pointles to invest in risen, when you can have the original. GW squad = 21. Recast = 21 too... does not make much sense, but it's true.
That's not really a con though is it? You just don't buy the recast if you can have the original for the same cost. I suspect some kits are a pain to do, and are priced accordingly, rather than on some random system based on perceived in game role/likely number of sales.
- It's a 50/50 chance that you will recieve pure gak. Models come with bubles in the rezin.
Dammit, I must in line for a really nasty run, because literally none of the things I've purchased have had any defects beyond what is normal for a hand cast kit.
- It's another 50/50 chance that the model will come completely destroy.
Wow! I'm really in for a bad run, because, again, never happened.
- Because China is far and those people do not speak english well (not that mine is perfect, i dont wanna run into any discrimination topics) a lot of mistakes happens. You order Tau but recieve Chaos Cultists instead.
A lot? No. Again, none is my baseline, so I guess I'm going to get a load of broken kits, full of bubbles, and they're not even going to be the right ones!
- Do you really wanna wait 7 to 8 weeks to recieve something wrapped in nylon bubble bag.
A zip lock bag, inside a bubble bag inside a cardboard box sealed with so much packing tape the contents could likely survive Armageddon you mean? I'm ok with 7-8 weeks, it's not like I haven't got a bunch of stuff to work on in the meantime, and that's a worst case scenario anyway. I've recorded stuff in a little over a week from dispatch. 3 is about average.
- Speaking of the above - no assembly instrctions. When recieving infantry this is not much of a problem, as I said above one SM arrives in 3 parts, but if you order something Larger - Imperial Knight... then you have a problem.
Depends on your experience as a modeller, or your ability to work Google.
I was warned about the risk of cancer and Im still not 100% sure about that. Anyway, Im kinda not sure if it was a good Idea to post such a thread. I hope I wont be stoned to dead by admins and GW loyalists.
There's no risk of cancer any more than any other resin (which is essentially zero.) There is a small risk of respiratory and lung issues if you breath too much dust from not wearing protective gear, but he same applies to anything that generates fine particulates. I'd imagine the air outside, if you live in a city, is more carcinogenic.
So, all in all, I'd say your research has just found the complaints, giving you a skewed view of the situation, and my experience shows almost the polar opposite.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 20:52:16
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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Dude, in the end of the day it's just a game. I don't care if you are with resin china recsts or originals, I was just pointing out some risks you may run into and from what I read a lot of people had the issues I listetend above: misplaced models, missing parts, damaged stuff. Like it or not, you can just start reading the reditt recast threads and see for yourself that there are some issues. Im too tired to post images of models and etc. I just wanted to say that just because you had luck it does not mean that recsts are 100% worthy.
Anyway, I think we derail the thread a lot. I plan to purchache a recast models as an experiment and see how it goes. But I will do it as long as I have some valid info and I wont run into the first ebayer I see.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/20 20:53:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 21:05:50
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Stoic Grail Knight
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Always check the seller rating! That seems to be one of the best ways to avoid issues for just about everything!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 21:08:16
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Haha see what I said in my post about the moral debates, morals have nothing to do with just getting or giving information about the pros and cons, only the facts matter and the fact is the end product is virtually (or literally now the dictionary meaning has changed... Thanks stupid people for that) the same.
But with fw you know you have the service, replacements in a timely manner and 0% chance of being scammed, that's a fact.
Recasts are virtually the same, but you cannot guarantee... A guarantee, they may not replace the parts, they may send junk, they may send nothing and run off with your hard earned dollar bucks, also facts.
So sod all the morals and nonsense some people are spouting, just look at the facts and make a decision, and if after that you then find it morally wrong, that's called an informed decision.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/20 21:09:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 21:40:28
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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DalinCriid wrote:Dude, in the end of the day it's just a game. I don't care if you are with resin china recsts or originals, I was just pointing out some risks you may run into and from what I read a lot of people had the issues I listetend above: misplaced models, missing parts, damaged stuff. Like it or not, you can just start reading the reditt recast threads and see for yourself that there are some issues. Im too tired to post images of models and etc. I just wanted to say that just because you had luck it does not mean that recsts are 100% worthy.
You can't give the reedit threads any value, unless there's plenty of threads along the lines of "I bought some recasts, the quality was fine, nothing bad happened."
My point was your research is flawed because people with negative things to say will be much more likely to go on the Internet and complain about it, skewing your view of the overall quality.
Anyway, I think we derail the thread a lot. I plan to purchache a recast models as an experiment and see how it goes. But I will do it as long as I have some valid info and I wont run into the first ebayer I see.
If you're buying them from eBay, you're doing it wrong. But yes, experience is the most valuable research you can do. Automatically Appended Next Post: Formosa wrote:Haha see what I said in my post about the moral debates, morals have nothing to do with just getting or giving information about the pros and cons, only the facts matter and the fact is the end product is virtually (or literally now the dictionary meaning has changed... Thanks stupid people for that) the same.
But with fw you know you have the service, replacements in a timely manner and 0% chance of being scammed, that's a fact.
Recasts are virtually the same, but you cannot guarantee... A guarantee, they may not replace the parts, they may send junk, they may send nothing and run off with your hard earned dollar bucks, also facts.
So sod all the morals and nonsense some people are spouting, just look at the facts and make a decision, and if after that you then find it morally wrong, that's called an informed decision.
To quote me, a few days ago, in this thread..
There's a moral argument to be had about recasts, but there really isn't a practical one.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/20 21:41:56
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 21:55:24
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Revving Ravenwing Biker
England
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A little off-topic but curious after reading this.
Has anyone ever recast parts in a different material, like FW recasts in plastic?
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Don't believe me? It's all in the numbers.
Number 1: That's terror.
Number 2: That's terror.
Dark Angels/Angels of Vengeance combo - ???? - Input wanted! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 22:07:07
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Morphing Obliterator
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CrashGordon94 wrote:A little off-topic but curious after reading this.
Has anyone ever recast parts in a different material, like FW recasts in plastic?
Theoretically, you could cast a copy of any miniature in any material that could be made from a formable mould around the original. If you can make a rubber/plaster/green stuff mould, you can make a copy in resin/metal/green stuff/plaster or any other material. However, as plastic is normally injection moulded into CNC milled steel moulds, it's not possible to make a plastic copy from a real model without access to industrial machinery.
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See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
AFAIK, there is only one world, and it is the real world. - Iron_Captain
DakkaRank Comment: I sound like a Power Ranger.
TFOL and proud. Also a Forge World Fan.
I should really paint some of my models instead of browsing forums. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 22:11:50
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Douglas Bader
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-Shrike- wrote:However, as plastic is normally injection moulded into CNC milled steel moulds, it's not possible to make a plastic copy from a real model without access to industrial machinery.
And it's probably not even possible to do it at all without completely redesigning the model to remove undercuts, ensure that plastic flows through the mold properly, etc. At that point you're putting so much effort into your "recast" that you might as well create your own models.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 22:12:57
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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CrashGordon94 wrote:A little off-topic but curious after reading this.
Has anyone ever recast parts in a different material, like FW recasts in plastic?
No, because that's moving the cost of production the wrong way - it's much more expensive to produce plastic kits than resin or metal.
It is possible, however, to find Finecast models in metal or a superior resin, and plastic kits in resin.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 22:35:39
Subject: Re:Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Douglas Bader
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Azreal13 wrote:Dammit, I must in line for a really nasty run, because literally none of the things I've purchased have had any defects beyond what is normal for a hand cast kit.
You must be lucky since most of the recasts I've seen in person have been horrible casts. Mold misalignment that would be impossible to fix without resculpting the whole model, bubbles that are almost as bad as finecast, etc. Maybe you've bought enough recasts to find the good sources but there are plenty of bad ones out there.
- It's another 50/50 chance that the model will come completely destroy.
Wow! I'm really in for a bad run, because, again, never happened.
Similarly, this probably depends on the source. The only recasts I got directly from the caster ( AFAIK) were packaged even worse than FW and had tons of broken pieces.
A zip lock bag, inside a bubble bag inside a cardboard box sealed with so much packing tape the contents could likely survive Armageddon you mean?
Alternatively, a zip lock bag crammed full of brittle resin parts that are guaranteed to spend the whole trip smashing against each other with the inevitable outcome. Lots of packing table and bubble wrap can only do so much if you don't use it right.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/20 22:36:36
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 22:42:37
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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You have your experiences, I have mine, I'm willing to bet, given how vehemently I've seen you argue against the purchase of recasts that I've got more of them.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/20 22:52:02
Subject: Avoiding recasts on EBAY?
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Douglas Bader
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Azreal13 wrote:You have your experiences, I have mine, I'm willing to bet, given how vehemently I've seen you argue against the purchase of recasts that I've got more of them.
Yes, I concede that you've bought more recasts than I have and have managed to find reliable sources. That doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of terrible recasts out there, and someone who doesn't have your extensive experience with recasting is a lot less likely to avoid them.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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