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Recently I played a few matches against Necrons, and (no surprise) had some problems making them die. The 3++ with 4+ reanimation (5+ if you happen to bring ID or S) is a real big pain in the ass.

I encountered the Wraith - Spyder - Scarab formation, we play it with multiple spyders (because playing Necrons leaves you with too many friends, you need to remove some more with adding more spyders to your canoptek formation), also some "You can't remove this HQ", likely pretorians with some lord, resulting in 3++ with 4+ reanimation protocolls (same for the wraiths in the formation above).

Since IG is not the fastest nor toughest army around, grabbing objectives and staying on them isn't a viable strategy (that's what Necrons can do).

I was able to remove quite a lot of wraiths, which weren't in the formation (different game), but for that I shot them with pretty much everything I had, and lost Pask and buddy in the process.

Use your orders. Use snipers. Use target priority.

Volume of fire, same as any army.

Nomeny wrote:
Use your orders. Use snipers. Use target priority.

What does a sniper (or a lot of snipers) help with anything? That's 4+ wound, no AP (unless you roll a 6), but 3++ ignores AP anyways (so does reanimation).

What orders? What priority?

Horde army with cheap price to put lots and lots of bodies. Having more CAD models on an objective then the Necrons shouldn't be too hard. Tarpit any of his units that only do little amount of atks at high strength and armour piercing by making them try and slog through several turns of wounds. While tarpited he can't shoot your unit. Send in the Ogryins to help IG already in assault at an objective to reduce what the Ogryns take while they still dish it out (we Orks do something similar with Boyz and regular Nobz units). Fill the rest of your list with ranged weapons that can whittle 3+ models and vehicles.

By not playing against a Necron army that is optimized, especially one that is using Decurion. Necrons are the Guard's kryptonite because oftentimes Guard relies on vehicles to do the heavy lifting, which necrons wipe out with ease with their basic gun. So balanced right? XD

Unless you run man spam with tons of platoons and heavy weapons Necrons will usually win. And even then Platoons are not very efficient when it comes to objective games. Might want to opt for Eternal War missions in that case as Platoons aren't exactly the best mobile objective grabbers.

If the Necron player is willing to gimp himself by taking a couple bad units like C'tan thingies or even just using points on extraneous upgrades, it might be a fair fight.

Unfortunately, the way to beat Wraiths used to be massed firepower due to the nature of their invulnerable save devaluing low-AP firepower. The Harvest then devalues massed fire by giving them a functional FNP, which Decurion then boosts further by making it 4+. Solution? 30-40 conscripts with a priest and try to forget about the Wraiths. That's the only thing that comes to mind.

Ditto obsidian.

The only way to beat the Harvest is to ignore it for the most part and sit on an objective and objsec the win.

But if you had to, lots and lots of ST10 and or Go for the Spider first asap. it gona be easy but that will at least give you a chance to shoot em down.

 Desubot wrote:
Ditto obsidian.

The only way to beat the Harvest is to ignore it for the most part and sit on an objective and objsec the win.

But if you had to, lots and lots of ST10 and or Go for the Spider first asap. it gona be easy but that will at least give you a chance to shoot em down.

There is that. Perhaps slot in a Manticore and cross your fingers.

Play DKoK guardsmen
Field 6 engineer squads all with Breaching drills
Laugh at your enemy when they appear with S10 blast melta
DESTROY THEIR COVER (by emerging from underneath it)
DESTROY THEIR MONOLITHS (by emerging underneath it)
Take a Skyshield and Stick a squadron of Leman Russ Punishers on it
???
PROFIT

commander dante wrote:
Play DKoK guardsmen
Field 6 engineer squads all with Breaching drills
Laugh at your enemy when they appear with S10 blast melta
DESTROY THEIR COVER (by emerging from underneath it)
DESTROY THEIR MONOLITHS (by emerging underneath it)
Take a Skyshield and Stick a squadron of Leman Russ Punishers on it
???
PROFIT

Breaching Drills got changed if i remember.
They dont give a feth about cover since harvest has 3++
no one takes Monoliths
Harvest is an assault type thing so wont give 2 feths about the skyshield. also ignores cover so will not give a feth about the -2 on charge distance.

Well you don't... I had some limited success in melee with 30 man blobs with all the bells and wistles ( and i mean ALL, priests, Inquisitor w/rad, PrimarisX2 and bloody Yarrick). That blob of doom killed the wraiths and the Spyder (not in that order). But as i had invested a huge chunk of points into defeating the Harvest the rest of the blighters swept though the rest of my force

To kill the wraiths, you have to first kill the spyder. As long as that spyder exists, the wraiths, spyder, and scarabs just ignore half of your damage. Of all things, AM is actually rather well equipped to do this, as the spyder does not have an invul save, just a 3+ armor save, so he relies on a cover save. Getting that ignores-cover order off will be clutch. If you can go first and pop that spyder first turn, before it can grant reanimation protocols to the formation, you will be tremendously better off.

After that, you will be tarpitting the wraiths, blast/templating the scarabs, and then running away from the lychguard star while you spend your shooting on stuff that you can actually kill. As a wraith-spamming necron player, I love it when my opponent shoots everything into my wraiths, leaving my squishier stuff unmolested. Don't fall into that trap. Toss more cheap fearless wounds at him than he can burn through. Good luck.

step one: invest in some FW artillery carridges, they will stand up to necrons better due to not being vehicles,

str 8 ap3 will wreck necrons ob sec units,

step 2 tar pit everything scary that runs at you


step 3 profit.

 easysauce wrote:
step one: invest in some FW artillery carridges, they will stand up to necrons better due to not being vehicles,

str 8 ap3 will wreck necrons ob sec units,

step 2 tar pit everything scary that runs at you


step 3 profit.

You forgot step 2.5

Probably something along the line of allying in all the inquisitors and using rad to lower toughness (now that black Knights can't).
If someone would inform me of necrons usual initiative values you could probably take sky silencers in the future and use their time bombs to blast them apart because their initiative is probably somewhere next to rubbish.

If you run out of targets to bomb, the rift cannon can be used to mop up infantry, and the lascannons and black swords can be used on nastier beasties.

The same way we deal with everything else. Massed Firepower

Last game I played versus decurion as IG i wiped him of the board turn 4.

Turn 1 I sniped his spyder with artillery carriages ( I run 3 of them in a unit with prescience and ignore cover) and wyverns. Turn 2 I flew in two vultures that took care of most of his wraiths. Also bombed his CCB to bits with artillery.

Behind an aegis i had some veterans that took care of his bikes and normal troops. Had some sabres that intercepted his flyers to bits.

As guard I would say its mandatory to run forgeworld units if you want to stand a chance. Vanilla guard is just so damn bad.

Nowadays I ally spacewolves and run a droppod filled with a CCS and 4 plasmas + astropath dedicated for first turn sniping. I also play with inquisitors and bring a Inquisitor with combiplasma and psyoccolum in the pod for sniping out demon princes/psykers with ease turn one. Either you give them ignore cover if its nightfighting or you give them monsterhunter. Then you have 10 shots of rapidfireplasma that hits on 2+/2+ and then wounds on 2+/2+ versus a deamon. Pretty brutal.

Thanks for the answers guys. It seems that I need to look at FW.

How does psyocculum and snapshot work together? Psyocculum sets BS to 10, then snapshot makes BS1 out of it, right?

Snap shooting overrules psyocculum.

They are Both sets occuring at the same time no?

 Desubot wrote:
They are Both sets occuring at the same time no?

Boils down to the wording of snap shooting, iirc. Not that I see the connection - what this being vs Necrons. Perhaps a separate thread in YMDC is called for.

Wraiths have a marine T and SV versus everything that is not AP1 or AP2.

I assume you use Wyverns. Wyverns are key get them behind some line of sight terrain and take down the spider and the wraiths lose FNP. Wraiths are difficult in hth and I have noticed that if you do not play obj sec spam you need some type of way to deal with hth. Personally a marine ally, with a large blob squad can help tie up the wraiths and the marine will convey ATSKNF which will keep the stuck around. Take power axes on the blob and flamers. The power axes are good for chomping most things not just T4 models.

If you play static you will need a way to eventually get up field. That is where the air comes into play.

Take a 50 man blob with a priest and primaris pysker. Then a telepath in the ccs. Hope to get invisibility and forewarning. Cget those powers off and mass multi charge everything. Priest prays and you have an invisible 4++ reroll fearless squad. Then just grab objectives with a couple of chimera vets

 NightWrench wrote:
Wraiths have a marine T and SV versus everything that is not AP1 or AP2.

I assume you use Wyverns. Wyverns are key get them behind some line of sight terrain and take down the spider and the wraiths lose FNP. Wraiths are difficult in hth and I have noticed that if you do not play obj sec spam you need some type of way to deal with hth. Personally a marine ally, with a large blob squad can help tie up the wraiths and the marine will convey ATSKNF which will keep the stuck around. Take power axes on the blob and flamers. The power axes are good for chomping most things not just T4 models.

If you play static you will need a way to eventually get up field. That is where the air comes into play.

Wraiths are T5, Marines are T4.

 NightWrench wrote:
Wraiths have a marine T and SV versus everything that is not AP1 or AP2.

I assume you use Wyverns. Wyverns are key get them behind some line of sight terrain and take down the spider and the wraiths lose FNP. Wraiths are difficult in hth and I have noticed that if you do not play obj sec spam you need some type of way to deal with hth. Personally a marine ally, with a large blob squad can help tie up the wraiths and the marine will convey ATSKNF which will keep the stuck around. Take power axes on the blob and flamers. The power axes are good for chomping most things not just T4 models.

If you play static you will need a way to eventually get up field. That is where the air comes into play.

Wraiths have T5 and a 3+ invul.. AP doesn't matter.

So its a Straight hit it hard with anything that ID them to bypass the 4+++ they get afterward if we are talking about harvest. and there 2 wounds.

 Desubot wrote:

 NightWrench wrote:
Wraiths have a marine T and SV versus everything that is not AP1 or AP2.

I assume you use Wyverns. Wyverns are key get them behind some line of sight terrain and take down the spider and the wraiths lose FNP. Wraiths are difficult in hth and I have noticed that if you do not play obj sec spam you need some type of way to deal with hth. Personally a marine ally, with a large blob squad can help tie up the wraiths and the marine will convey ATSKNF which will keep the stuck around. Take power axes on the blob and flamers. The power axes are good for chomping most things not just T4 models.

If you play static you will need a way to eventually get up field. That is where the air comes into play.

Wraiths have T5 and a 3+ invul.. AP doesn't matter.

So its a Straight hit it hard with anything that ID them to bypass the 4+++ they get afterward if we are talking about harvest. and there 2 wounds.

As far as I know ID only makes Reanimation protocol worse by one, so 5+++ from 4+++, not ignores it.

@HANZERtank: hoping for two 6+ is anything but reliable.

Yes sorry not bypass but diminish.

I would throw my suggestion in for massed heavy bolters. Its a decent range, good strength, ok AP weapon that is generally a free upgrade for vehicles. The first reason is because it will ignore the warrior saves and stack up some wounds, sure they still have the RP, but that is all they get (well, cover too I guess)

You'll be wounding wraiths and whatnot on 4s, but youll have the amount of fire to not worry. Punishers with all heavy bolters should be able to stack up enough wounds to deal some serious damage. Bring 2 of them and erase a unit! Volume of fire with range +24. Deploy properly so that you can shoot them turn 1, but they can't shoot you turn one. Attempt to reposition as well as possible for turn 2. Camo netting on tanks, because every save helps!

The problem with massed heavy bolters is that, while OK against Warriors or Flayed ones in the open (as much as anything can be), against anything with a 3+ save or cover, their effectiveness drops dramatically

Against Wraiths, assuming no Harvest formation, you need 8 BS3 heavy bolters worth of fire to kill a single Wraith on average, and if they're in a Harvest formation benefitting from RP, then you need 16 BS3 Heavy Bolters to kill a single Wraith on average.

Even a Punisher rocking 29 S5 shots, is on average only inflicting 1.2 wounds on a Wraith with RP, and only 3.166 wounds on basic Warriors (assuming they're in the open) and even with roughly a third of those shots punching through the Warrior's armor, they're inflicting a lower average wound rate than they would against 3+sv marines (3.22).

Marshalling the volume of fire you'd need to adequately deal with something like that (and before they run through your lines) just isn't possible in most IG armies, especially if you need to engage other units (and other types of units) at the same time.

I don't believe there's actually a reasonable answer for IG armies at the current time. Looking through battle reports, youtube videos, watching local games, etc, I'm not seeing any examples of this being successfully dealt with, I haven't come across an instance of the current Necron book losing a game to the current IG book.