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Would it be possible to make a reasonably viable Space Marine army list using infantry only, or something close to that? I'm thinking of taking my old Black Templars out of storage, but this is a third edition army, so aside from the odd Predator, Razorback and Land Speeder, it's mostly just Initiates, Neophytes, Assault Marines and Tactical Terminators. I'm prepared to buy a couple more units (maybe a Drop Pod or three?), but ideally I'd like to make something using what I already have. I'm pretty sure the Skyhammer is formation non grata in my club, but maybe that veteran formation combined with a CAD full of guys running up the table, plus maybe some lascannon or missile launcher Devastators?

A guy at my local club has an all infantry list, Devastators with Lascannons, A few Assault marines (Some with two meltas and a combi to melta-suicide), Sternguard with the occasional terminators, and lots and lots of tacticals.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
A guy at my local club has an all infantry list, Devastators with Lascannons, A few Assault marines (Some with two meltas and a combi to melta-suicide), Sternguard with the occasional terminators, and lots and lots of tacticals.

How well does it do?

Sounds like fun!

I sense that style of play requires excellent deployment and critical generalship much like Warhammer Fantasy.

Like any army, you will have bad matchups. But you can do it. A lot depends on how competitive your FLGS is. Against “friendly” lists, you should do fine.

I fielded a footslogging list not long ago and pulled out a victory, so it’s not impossible.

Scouts would also be your best friend for movement and adding more bodies though i would consider giving them the helmeted scion heads

I was doing some playing around with army creation from the new dex and found myself tending to mechanized infantry. closest thing I had to a tank was rhinos

This could be an effective force for target saturation. Thunder fire cannon batteries, assault squads, tac and scout squads, and dev squads. Whats not to love about it? Aside from painting them all if you do a complicated paint scheme army.

PAtide lists are fun, but you have to go in whole hog. I run a "demi-company" with a whopping one Rhino, 1 Whirlwind and up to 2 dreads. It is a lot of fun to play and can work very well. you have to really focus on taking out the ap3 and lower weapons early in the game though.

You can def do it.

Double demi companies. Everything gets a free pod. Take 2 squads assualt marines to escort your two hqs. Spam grav tacticals or something. You will find you have the advantage agaisnst a lot of lists. It is competitive.

Scout spam is not only viable but can compete with top tier builds. Take 6 units of 9 scouts w/ bolters + sarge w/ combi-grav and melta bombs, Imperial Fists or Sentinels of Terra Chapter Tactics are usually best. These are usually combat squaded and infiltrated near objectives and the gravs near something important they can kill. Then fill in the rest with 1-2 units of lascannon devs (can openers) and perhaps 1 unit of thunderfire cannons (horde control is not mandatroy as TL bolters do pretty good but ignore cover can really help against cover save shenanigans). All that is left is taking some AA to handle flyrant heavy builds. I would recommend a fire raptor if you don't mind adding a flyer, alternatively the new typhoon missile launcher stormtalon is pretty good with the improved price and stormravens can be surprisingly effective if somewhat overcosted. Alternatively you can fairly successfully ignore even flyrants with such an army, however it will take some considerable skill with your movement and range manipulation.

Drop pod SM is incredibly good right now. Definitely top tier. However it appears you don't want that sort of army.

Really SM without mobility is counter to the entire design philosophy of the army. They are a highly mobile elite force or a fixed position defenses with a highly mobile counter strike (ie Iron Rain).

There actually are few ways to do a pure foot army with PA that works to some degree. Not great but they can function.
1) Use the Siege Assault Vanguard Army List from forgeworld. You take at least 3 units of 10 TAC marines with siege mantlet, plasmagun, combi-plas, meltabombs, and grav cannon (pts permitting you also might want vet sarge and power fist). Use the raptor chapter tactics and take Lias Issodon as your warlord. He gets master of ambush as his chapter tactic so you can infiltrate the siege TAC squads in range turn 1. These units all have a 3+ rerollable armour save vs shooting, a decent amount of dakka and can also turn their bolters into 1 shot rending if they stand still. Just make sure you take enough support to cover your bases as your firepower is low and these units while durable against some threats fall apart against others.
2) Most of the legion armies can run this sort of thing with success. The rules are built around it and they show. Those are 30K armies but a lot of people don't mind playing them.
3) Ravenguard assault marines can somewhat do this. The shrouding turn 1 sounds like a small thing but if you tend to play in ruins or bring a barricade that means your models are taking 2+ cover saves. They will still struggle to win but it helps keep you alive turn 1 to actually make some charges and close range.

Hopefully some of that helps.

Scout spam is decidedly un-Black Templar though. One or two units maybe, but I feel the rest should be proper Neophytes.

Great replies, thanks! I'm going to try it out. I might consider a single Drop Pod with Sternguard Veterans, to deal with that one artillery piece that prevents my footmen to reach their lines. Ideally I'd use the Demi-Company, but for some bizarre reason it doesn't allow for Crusader squads.

I'm thinking of adding a couple of teleport homers and deep strike my Terminators in. Or would it be better to start them on the table, to be able to shoot on T1?

My suggestion - try before you buy. I did something similar to what your thinking of, and, well, theres a reason people consider the troops a 'tax'.

I also have experience with infantry hordes given I usually play Orks, and I can honestly say that you should reconsider your no pods thing.

Pods mean your marines are in the enemies face turn one - no need to walk them across the map, which is a) going to get them shot up, and b) very very tedious. Did I mention that moving hundreds of guys around, spacing them, padding the weapon dudes with garbage dudes due to stupid "kills from the front" rules and so forth is incredibly fething tedious?

Pods allow you to get your marines right into the fight with no bs. Drop your dudes near enemy dudes, start shooting and punching immediately. Game on melon-fethers. This is very, very, very good for increasing the effectiveness of your marines, and if your anything like me, several turns of mucking about with walking and gak is unenjoyable and anything you can do to eliminate this is pure goddamn gold. Pods also allow null or near-null deployment (nothing on the table), which is a very effective strategy and can protect you from leafblower type lists which can annihilate swathes of marines in the first turn, as well as giving you a huge advantage against all sorts of other stuff. They don't have an appreciable impact on the number of marines you can field, especially if you run the double gladius thing (which you should with mass marines) at which point they become free.

So defs give the horde a few test games with proxied or borrowed models, and also try running that same horde in a wave of pods. I think you'll be surprised - and perhaps giving your neophytes power armour is a worthwhile price to pay for what you can get with pods

I've already bought, sometime between 2000 and 2004. Just wondering if I could turn it into something viable. I'm used to moving 20-man Eldar Guardian and Necron Warrior units, so I don't mind that.

Okapi wrote:
Scout spam is decidedly un-Black Templar though. One or two units maybe, but I feel the rest should be proper Neophytes.

Great replies, thanks! I'm going to try it out. I might consider a single Drop Pod with Sternguard Veterans, to deal with that one artillery piece that prevents my footmen to reach their lines. Ideally I'd use the Demi-Company, but for some bizarre reason it doesn't allow for Crusader squads.

I'm thinking of adding a couple of teleport homers and deep strike my Terminators in. Or would it be better to start them on the table, to be able to shoot on T1?

Crusaders are a non-codex unit. The formation is supposed to represent a Codex Marine force. I suspect there will be a BT formation around the crusaders sooner than later.

I find it very much depends on the board and opponent on which is better. Heavy terrain or gunline opponents I find Deepstrike better, on more open boards or fast moving armies starting on the board seems to be better. Either way they still die more to massed fire than to heavy weapons.

I think the Demi company offers a lot of options but it would be hard to do without transports. Just the number of OS bodies you would have on the table....many elite armies would have trouble getting through them all.

Why not get a game where the opponent does similar? I have a friend with a painted up "company" of 6 tacticals, 2 devastators and 2 assault squads plus a HQ and 4 rhinos only. That's it. But I play her with my full craftworld footdar list: guardians plus all the aspects, and they are fun games - we balance the points and just agree that we are building "real fluff" armies

As much as my other armies hate spam, my Marines spam PA. Some ASM, some Devs, and lots of Tacs (Demi company style in a CAD). It can really do work. Shoot the Orks, threaten assault on the IG (note that doesn't mean actually assault).

Granted, my lists are more Specialist style (lots of toys for those boys, and a few DT), but it does work. Basically, stereotypical UM decendants.

Not exactly what you're after, but Black Tide got some love in the new book.

If you don't want to take a Formation, then don't. The CAD is still a blast!

Black Templars can do the foot-slogging thing reasonably well. The crusader rule helps them get good run rolls, so you can reliably get across the board in two turns (sometimes turn 2 charges are possible if you get a good run roll on your first turn). They also benefit from losing guys in the shooting phase on the turn before their charge.

If using transports, then White Scars lead by Khan are a good choice for swarming the board with infantry. He gives your rhinos and razorbacks Scout, so with the 12" redeploy + 6" move + 6" disembark, you're already at the edge of your opponent's deployment zone. This gives you a lot of the flexibility of drop pods, while also giving you a ton of transports with which you can shuffle infantry around the board. White Scars also have Hit & Run (to escape from close combat tarpits), and pseudo-fleet when running, so their footslogging infantry are pretty good.

And of course, drop pod lists with tons of infantry are more than just viable - they win tournaments.

Tried a game last night, with a Terminator Chaplain leading a Crusader Squad of 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes. With the Chaplain tanking and the Neophytes diving in front of plasma and lascannon shots, they proved very hard to shift.

Or you could load up on cheap 5 initiates 5 neophyte crusader squads with a plasma gun which comes in cheaper then a full tactical with no upgrades