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How's the Hammer of Caliban auxiliary? I don't have the codex yet, but I was interested in this auxiliary. I hear it's better to go Vanilla Marines for something like that though.

I'm a fan so far. Interomancy looks fun,units got nice buffs and cost reductions where needed, everything works to a level that I haven't really felt for DA in a long time. The only thing really making this codex for me is the CADs for deathwing and ravenwing not working. If they FAQ them so I can run mono deathwing, and ravenwing without Sammie I'll be happy as a clam.

Solidly in the "meh" camp. I play Deathwing, and I don't care for the formations they've offered. I'm also not a competetive player, so I could care less about "OMG, RW is OP!!" or the weird entitlement thing that somehow Dark Angels players were owed a massive buff. I haven't purchased the new codex, and I'll likely just stick with the "old" book that's barely two years old.

I was thinking about getting into Deathwing a while back. I'm glad I didn't. Overall I'm quite happy from what I'm hearing of the codex, but I would imagine that Deathwing players are gonna start keeping their termies on the shelf and start another army.

The new DA codex would be awesome ... if GW had an editor on staff capable of editing. Too many errors and missing rules. Could have been great, too bad it's not.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The new DA codex would be awesome ... if GW had an editor on staff capable of editing. Too many errors and missing rules. Could have been great, too bad it's not.

SJ

The mistakes will make little difference to RW players. I can't see many TOs or players not allowing HQs to take bikes and be part of the strike force. It's already happened locally and i imagine it will happen most places before it gets FAQ'd

I just want black knights on jet bike...

 Volkov wrote:
I just want black knights on jet bike...

well you get one

So I'm currently watching reviews and I'm hearing something that seems too good to be true. If I were to run a squad of black knights and had them shrouded from a Darkshroud, do they get a 2+ rerollable Jink save and can shoot at full BS the following turn? I'm assuming that's part of a formation, but that sounds way too good to be true.

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:
So I'm currently watching reviews and I'm hearing something that seems too good to be true. If I were to run a squad of black knights and had them shrouded from a Darkshroud, do they get a 2+ rerollable Jink save and can shoot at full BS the following turn? I'm assuming that's part of a formation, but that sounds way too good to be true.

It's not only true, it's only half the story

 jokerkd wrote:

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:
So I'm currently watching reviews and I'm hearing something that seems too good to be true. If I were to run a squad of black knights and had them shrouded from a Darkshroud, do they get a 2+ rerollable Jink save and can shoot at full BS the following turn? I'm assuming that's part of a formation, but that sounds way too good to be true.

It's not only true, it's only half the story

I have to get my hands on the codex ASAP. I mean there has to be a catch. That is way too mean otherwise.

You have to turbo boost turn one, and it only lasts until your next shooting phase. You can't get a benefit from it if you turbo boost after turn one; so it's reliable for surviving an alpha strike, provided you won't actually shoot at all on turn one.

If you jink after turn one, you still snap shot. But you do get a 2+ Rerollable jink so long as the dark shroud is nearby

I think the Company Masters are different from Company Grand Masters (Belial, Sammael etc.). They are basically senior officers in each company. Ravenwing should have the ability to be led by masters, librarians and chaplains.

Shouldn't Sammael have been inducted into the Deathwing?

 Bhazakhain wrote:
I think the Company Masters are different from Company Grand Masters (Belial, Sammael etc.). They are basically senior officers in each company. Ravenwing should have the ability to be led by masters, librarians and chaplains.

Shouldn't Sammael have been inducted into the Deathwing?

So, the only Grand Master is Azrael, there are 10 company masters (Belial for the first, Sammael for the second, the guy out of Dark Vengeance for the 5th if I recall correctly) who have all been in the Deathwing to get to the company master position. As the only differences between a codex adherent chapter and the Dark Angels is how they arm the first and second company, which means as it shows in the command structure page of the codex, that the 2nd company has it's own attached Librarian and Chaplain, who I suppose in order to keep up with their bike mounted brethren must be on a bike?

Am I the only one who looks at the command structure fluff bits from the book

the 2nd company doesn't have it's own librarian, they are all in the Deathwing. It has it's own chaplain though.
Sammel is in the Deathwing and has that in his rules by adding Fearless and Hatred (Chaos space marines) as separate rules.
The (ever-changing) fluff also talks about some members of the Black Knights having knowledge of the mission to hunt the fallen, but nobody else in the 2nd company knows this.

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:

 Bhazakhain wrote:
I think the Company Masters are different from Company Grand Masters (Belial, Sammael etc.). They are basically senior officers in each company. Ravenwing should have the ability to be led by masters, librarians and chaplains.

Shouldn't Sammael have been inducted into the Deathwing?

So, the only Grand Master is Azrael, there are 10 company masters (Belial for the first, Sammael for the second, the guy out of Dark Vengeance for the 5th if I recall correctly) who have all been in the Deathwing to get to the company master position. As the only differences between a codex adherent chapter and the Dark Angels is how they arm the first and second company, which means as it shows in the command structure page of the codex, that the 2nd company has it's own attached Librarian and Chaplain, who I suppose in order to keep up with their bike mounted brethren must be on a bike?

Am I the only one who looks at the command structure fluff bits from the book

Azrael is Supreme Grand Master isn't he? Ezekiel is Grand Master of Librarians etc. so I'm fairly sure there is one Supreme Grand Master, a Grand Master for each company and various other masters. Could be wrong though!

I think in the Ravenwing it is the Black Knights who know why they're there and the rest of the Ravenwing just follows orders.

I need a PDF version before i convince myself to buy the original.

I wish to know if greenwing is as solid as normal SM... I heard it is exactly the same?

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
I need a PDF version before i convince myself to buy the original.

I wish to know if greenwing is as solid as normal SM... I heard it is exactly the same?

There's some variations. Lots of people are saying Vanilla Marines are the way to go if you want to do that, but I feel Dark Angels have their perks. Their biggest perk imho is the lion's blade. 2 Demi companies and an auxiliary and you get free transports and overwatch at full BS (will be insane against Orks and Tyranids). You need an auxiliary, which can get expensive. What Angels have though is the Scout Auxiliary. Which is 1 - 10 scout squads. So essentially you can make 2 demi companies, slap in a 50 point default scout squad as your auxiliary, and you get the perks I just mentioned while only being between the 1000 - 1500 points mark (depending on sizes of units and upgrades of course).

From what I've seen from Vanilla marines, in order to do that you need to be at least 2000 points..

So basically you can get a lot of free razorbacks in a game that isn't horribly high in points. I plan on doing something like this and slapping lascannons on all of them (that costs points though).

People say the book is good, but I'm still not seeing it. My interest in DA lies solely with Deathwing which still blow, from what I can tell, so...meh.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
People say the book is good, but I'm still not seeing it. My interest in DA lies solely with Deathwing which still blow, from what I can tell, so...meh.

Yeah that's understandable. I was more of a ravenwing fan, so you can understand my excitement. But Deathwing players really got the shaft on this one.

If released 5 months ago, I'd have rated it up there with the old SM, Eldar, Necron codexes and Daemons.
It would have been top tier then, it certainly isn't now. But it still looks great from everything I've seen.
Saying it is poor because DW isn't great is like saying SM dex is poor if you play BT or RG because their CT isn't great. Rather - the codex is great but not great for pure DW. Much like the necron codex is amazing, but not amazing if you play Anni barges, royal courts and scarabs.

 PaulTheFirewoodSalesman wrote:

 Waaghboss Grobnub wrote:
I need a PDF version before i convince myself to buy the original.

I wish to know if greenwing is as solid as normal SM... I heard it is exactly the same?

There's some variations. Lots of people are saying Vanilla Marines are the way to go if you want to do that, but I feel Dark Angels have their perks. Their biggest perk imho is the lion's blade. 2 Demi companies and an auxiliary and you get free transports and overwatch at full BS (will be insane against Orks and Tyranids). You need an auxiliary, which can get expensive. What Angels have though is the Scout Auxiliary. Which is 1 - 10 scout squads. So essentially you can make 2 demi companies, slap in a 50 point default scout squad as your auxiliary, and you get the perks I just mentioned while only being between the 1000 - 1500 points mark (depending on sizes of units and upgrades of course).

From what I've seen from Vanilla marines, in order to do that you need to be at least 2000 points..

So basically you can get a lot of free razorbacks in a game that isn't horribly high in points. I plan on doing something like this and slapping lascannons on all of them (that costs points though).

Vanilla marines 2 demi Gladius cost 1055 minimum i believe. DA can take one for around 950. meaning that, with bare bones units, You can fit 2 in a 2000pt game. fielding 100 marines and 20 free transports. I call it the dark green tide

The absolute bare minimum without extra bodies and upgrades is 935.
That is 2 Demi Battle Companys and a single 10th Company scout squad to fulfill the requirements.
This allows for 10 Razorbacks at 1k points. Moar metal bawkses!

I like what I see.
I have always ran a Green-Wing [or in my case Orange-Wing] with Death-Wing Back up.
It is a shame about the Death-Wing though, maybe there will be a FAQ fix, but our group may just allow a 1st Turn Drop for an all Death-Wing Army.

Love it so far. I love how we can have a full battle company + Hammer of Caliban all for under 2000 points!
Can't wait to get some of these formations on the board!
Their "marketing" worked...made me go out and obtain 3 Landspeeders and 3 Predators and a Darkshroud!

I gave in running Deathwing-only a while ago. They never worked and *should* never work on their own (IMHO). Not on the battlefield, anyway.

to say DW didn't improve is incorrect, it just didn't get drastically better.

We got 20pts knocked off the main sqd and command squad.
You can replace the power sword sgt with claws or TH/SS (although the latter increased in price)
Dread gained 2 close combat attacks
Command squad apothecary dropped by 25pts
Perfidious relics may be taken in all terminator squads but went up 5pts (but if you play Eldar Seers often...)
Deathwing Knights got better (although this is debatable)
All terminators get Overwatch at BS 2 (not like anyone was charging your terms much)
We lost venerable on Land Raiders
We don't need Belial to lead the Deathwing
We lost ability to deep strike turn 1
Deep striking terminators from formations get "Battle Focus" on turn they deep strike

Worst change is the inability to actually play a full Deathwing army by itself (at least with a chance of actually not auto losing a soon as you lose any dreads arriving via deep strike). Not sure if that was intended.

Wait - someone has RW and DOESN'T want Sammael? But...why? Also - pretty sure he was never in the Deathwing, as he was appointed company master when the last ravenwing master croaked. Second company works as a separate path for promotions. The best head to Black Knights instead of Deathwing. Unless the fluff changed in the new dex?

 zgort wrote:
Wait - someone has RW and DOESN'T want Sammael? But...why? Also - pretty sure he was never in the Deathwing, as he was appointed company master when the last ravenwing master croaked. Second company works as a separate path for promotions. The best head to Black Knights instead of Deathwing. Unless the fluff changed in the new dex?

Maybe they want to use a Librarian. Maybe they want to use 2 HQs, without adding a ton of other things. Maybe they don't have the Sammy model. etc.

I put that the codex is pretty solid. The Ravenwing are pretty powerful, the Greenwing/Ironwing are potent enough, but the Deathwing are lackluster. If the Blood Angels and Space Wolves get updated to be on par with the Dark Angels (either through a FAQ or even a codex update), I would be happy. I am busy writing my own custom errata for the Blood Angels, I hope someone does the same for Space Wolves.

Locrian wrote:

Maybe they want to use a Librarian. Maybe they want to use 2 HQs, without adding a ton of other things. Maybe they don't have the Sammy model. etc.

I can't be held responsible for the poor choices of my fellow wargamers