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It has been a while, but I need Dakka's help again. I am still deep in construction, but my friends finally got me to knuckle down and put some effort into my marines. I like how they complain about me not doing things when I have about $5-6k worth of tyranids, space marines, and now fantasy sitting on my bench in various stages of completion. Honestly, why are people so cruel about my addictions? Where was I? Oh yea, marines.

Anyhow, I have gotten some good deals and managed to nab sevreal devestator squads and razorbacks. As it stands, I am a bit confused in how I should run my black templars. As it stands, I have 3 Lascannon razorbacks as well as 3 groups of 5 crusaders to go with them. Should I leave them blank for simple objective holders, or invest in a special like the grav gun to give them a lititle more firepower on the move? And would it be worth the effort to invest in more squads suported by razorbacks since this game has gone back to heavy objective based play?

Side note; with the amount of shooting I have, is it viable to keep my loonies as is, or break down and buy some assault marines to repurpose a few of those two handed chains words for some added rule of cool for dedicated cc crusader squads?

If you're shooting with BT, you're doing it wrong. Double Las/Plas is nice, but I'd rather take IH or WS for a mechanized list.

Ordinarily, I would agree with you, but at the beginning of 7th, it was sadly more effective to have groups of crusaders drive up for en masse rapid fire then it was for them to hop out and simply assault with the old book. At this point, I am just trying to find some justification for the large amount of bolter marines I have. Beyond that, about the only other thing I can think of to salvage a semi shooty BT list is if I ran the forge world siege list.

So there are couple ways to go here. You can either build for the Demi Company, and get tons of razorbacks for FREE!! by taking tac squads instead of crusader squads.

Or you can go the Black Templar route, and get Obj.Sec Land Raiders. Since Crusader Squads can take LRCs as dedicated transports, they become objective secured.

 Icculus wrote:
So there are couple ways to go here. You can either build for the Demi Company, and get tons of razorbacks for FREE!! by taking tac squads instead of crusader squads.

Or you can go the Black Templar route, and get Obj.Sec Land Raiders. Since Crusader Squads can take LRCs as dedicated transports, they become objective secured.

Well, I did some thinking, and went for a little bit of both. I don't have the new codex yet, but it is on order, so I'm sitting on a south Carolina beach guestimating this by what I can remember, plus a little Google foo.

Black Templar Battle Company
2 Chaplains
6 Tactical combat squads
2 Tech marines
3 Predators
3 Whirlwinds

That should give me enough points to arm the tactical squads with lascannon razorbacks.

I wonder if those bolter Marines might make decent nonjumping Assault Marines. Free Rhino! Assault Doctrine! Rage!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
So there are couple ways to go here. You can either build for the Demi Company, and get tons of razorbacks for FREE!! by taking tac squads instead of crusader squads.

Or you can go the Black Templar route, and get Obj.Sec Land Raiders. Since Crusader Squads can take LRCs as dedicated transports, they become objective secured.

Well, I did some thinking, and went for a little bit of both. I don't have the new codex yet, but it is on order, so I'm sitting on a south Carolina beach guestimating this by what I can remember, plus a little Google foo.

Black Templar Battle Company
2 Chaplains
6 Tactical combat squads
2 Tech marines
3 Predators
3 Whirlwinds

That should give me enough points to arm the tactical squads with lascannon razorbacks.

You'll have to take a Chaplain and a Captain (and whether you can upgrade him to a Chapter Master is ambiguously worded). You'll also need two squads of Bikes, Assault Marines and/or Land Speeders, two squads of Devastator, and if you want to bring a Techmarine you'll have to take the Armoured Task Force, in which case you're still limited to one, and you'll need a Vindicator. On the other hand you get some nice tankfixing bonuses.

I thought you only had to grab 2 of the core formation, rather than 1 of everything.

I dont have the new codex either but I think you have to take the core plus two additional slots. So you could take the dev unit or the fast attack unit, or something like that. But you'll want to consult the book first.

But I like the idea of that tank-heavy list. 3 preds and 3 whirlwinds is definitely not nice. However, what if you run in to a flying circus list? you have almost no aa. Also, you have almost no close combat power to your list. You are running black templar after all. Wheres the unit made to crusade righteously in to battle and deliver justice in the form of a sword to the face?

 Icculus wrote:
I dont have the new codex either but I think you have to take the core plus two additional slots. So you could take the dev unit or the fast attack unit, or something like that. But you'll want to consult the book first.

But I like the idea of that tank-heavy list. 3 preds and 3 whirlwinds is definitely not nice. However, what if you run in to a flying circus list? you have almost no aa. Also, you have almost no close combat power to your list. You are running black templar after all. Wheres the unit made to crusade righteously in to battle and deliver justice in the form of a sword to the face?

Honestly, there are very few aircraft in my meta. Literally, the only aircraft I can think of in the area are a pair of valks, my own hoard of flyrants, a pair of nurgle princes, and maybe what remains in the sole possession of a pseudo retired necron player. That being said, I suppose I can do what real Black Templars would do; crawl through the mud of victory over the corpses of my fellow marines.

Well I would say if you were looking for a unit to do some slicing and dicing, go for the honor guard. They are probably one of the toughest units out there. And a chaplain makes them even stronger. 2 attacks profile, 2ccw, banner for +1 attack, free power weapons, and the chaplain lets them reroll failed hits in the first round. So thats 5 attacks each on the charge, with 2+ armor.

Nice.

But other than that, I think the demi-company with free razorbacks is the way to go. Also if you arent opposed to buying 3 of the same heavy tanks, and you hadnt already committed to 3 preds and 3 whirlwinds, I'd look at the 3 vindicator formation. Apocalyptic blast!!

If you have 6 tac squads, you could stick a flakk missile launcher in each one. Despite their unpopularity.

Icculus wrote:Well I would say if you were looking for a unit to do some slicing and dicing, go for the honor guard. They are probably one of the toughest units out there. And a chaplain makes them even stronger. 2 attacks profile, 2ccw, banner for +1 attack, free power weapons, and the chaplain lets them reroll failed hits in the first round. So thats 5 attacks each on the charge, with 2+ armor.

Nice.

But other than that, I think the demi-company with free razorbacks is the way to go. Also if you arent opposed to buying 3 of the same heavy tanks, and you hadnt already committed to 3 preds and 3 whirlwinds, I'd look at the 3 vindicator formation. Apocalyptic blast!!

Alcibiades wrote:If you have 6 tac squads, you could stick a flakk missile launcher in each one. Despite their unpopularity.

Well, that is what dakka is for. Hopefully someone can educate us on the finer points. Baring that, I think with that many tacticals, they could do well with a sarge with a storm bolter.