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so looks like Robin really is dead then ?!

In the leaked/now pulled Suicide squad trailer there's a bit with Joker about to torture/hurt someone...

.. wander if that's perhaps a flashback to the death of Robin ?

There's other leaks shown that has the gravestone of "Richard John Greyson" too.

So, looks like no Jason Todd, and no Nightwing possible.

That seems like a short sighted choice to me...

 LordofHats wrote:
What I'm getting at is a concern that the plot will be overstuffed and distracted (like Spider-Man 3, Amazing Spider-Man 2).

I was just messing with you and I think that is a valid concern. Still, even if it was just Superman and Batman I'm pretty sure Lex Luthor would still be in it in some capacity. In action I still have doubts as to Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman, though she could play a mean female Skeletor. I think the need to try and create a franchise ala Marvel may compromise the film and make it bloated and unwieldy but I hope not. Only time will tell I suppose.

 Compel wrote:
There's other leaks shown that has the gravestone of "Richard John Greyson" too.

So, looks like no Jason Todd, and no Nightwing possible.

That seems like a short sighted choice to me...

A gravestone doesn't necessarily mean the character is dead...

Right now, comics-wise, Dick Grayson faked his own death to join the spy agency "Spyral". That's the whole point of the currently ongoing series called "Grayson".

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Compel wrote:
There's other leaks shown that has the gravestone of "Richard John Greyson" too.

So, looks like no Jason Todd, and no Nightwing possible.

That seems like a short sighted choice to me...

A gravestone doesn't necessarily mean the character is dead...

Right now, comics-wise, Dick Grayson faked his own death to join the spy agency "Spyral". That's the whole point of the currently ongoing series called "Grayson".

Not much of a choice in the matter when the Crime Syndicate unmasked him in front of the world. Batman and Robin/Nightwing made a LOT of enemies. He either had to fake it or it would become real. I know there's been talk the DC comics are rebooting again...I was really looking forward to a Batman/Luthor grudging teamup through Luthor blackmailing Batman with identity knowledge. Following Forever Evil, Luthor decided to turn over a new leaf (while still being an arrogant sod). I'd like to see that continue.

Meh. DC should've went the other direction and did a Kingdom Come movie. Show us the world with too many super heroes and how it ends, screw this origin story stuff.

 Compel wrote:
I could see Lex and Batman starting off on the same side, until his plan unfolds and you have a Batman / Superman team up to end the film.

My bet/sense is that Lex gets chummy with Bruce (aware of his identity?), even as he manipulates him into fighting Supes. Who else would be behind the "Superman" stormtroopers? And maybe the clipping about his family, graffiti on Robin's costume, etc. Could Lex even be teaming with Joker already? That might provide motivation for the formation of the JL.

It seems pretty clear that Bruce is in a bad state. I believe that's Wayne Manor in ruins, which probably is symbolic of his mental state after Robin's death. Clark, on the other hand, seems to have his gak together and is busy saving people all over and being the hero even as the world still isn't sure what to make of him post-battle of Metropolis. To me, this is headed toward Supes ultimately re-energizing and re-inspiring Bats, with Bats becoming the mentor that Supes lacks.

Personally, I expect this movie to start very dark, but end brighter as the title suggests.

Regarding Doomsday, I think he's a fine secondary baddie if you need a Marvel-style tin can villain to knock over. Doomsday is just a wrecking machine...it doesn't talk, scheme, or have any real motivation other than destruction. There's no reason to save it to be a main villain in some other film. It's a fairly terrible character, honestly.

 gorgon wrote:


Regarding Doomsday, I think he's a fine secondary baddie if you need a Marvel-style tin can villain to knock over. Doomsday is just a wrecking machine...it doesn't talk, scheme, or have any real motivation other than destruction. There's no reason to save it to be a main villain in some other film. It's a fairly terrible character, honestly.

Agreed 1000%!

I too that IF Doomsday ever gets introduced he gets jettisoned in the same movie - he's about as one dimension a villain as they come!

Yeah, the interesting thing with Doomsday is what happens after he's defeated.

 Alpharius wrote:
Zombie Zod as the Big Bad that all 3 (4?) heroes band together to fight in Act 3?

That sounds even worse tham Doomsday.

 Compel wrote:
That seems like a short sighted choice to me...

Very.

Why give yourself fewer options like that? If it was Jason Todd that doesn't mean you have to bring in Nightwing, but it means that the door isn't shut.

Regarding Robin/Nightwing, there is currently a line action Teen Titans series in the works (standalone, not part of the DCCU or Arrowverse) which will have Nightwing Nightwing as the lead. So they could be killing him off here so as to prevent confusion with that series...

Then again, they are going to have two Flashes running around, so who knows?

 Paradigm wrote:
Regarding Robin/Nightwing, there is currently a line action Teen Titans series in the works (standalone, not part of the DCCU or Arrowverse) which will have Nightwing Nightwing as the lead. So they could be killing him off here so as to prevent confusion with that series...

Then again, they are going to have two Flashes running around, so who knows?

But why? What is the point of that- just to confuse viewers?

I'm assuming it has something to do with different writers.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Regarding Robin/Nightwing, there is currently a line action Teen Titans series in the works (standalone, not part of the DCCU or Arrowverse) which will have Nightwing Nightwing as the lead. So they could be killing him off here so as to prevent confusion with that series...

Then again, they are going to have two Flashes running around, so who knows?

But why? What is the point of that- just to confuse viewers?

I'm assuming it has something to do with different writers.

The DCMU writers want to cast actors who are "in", as opposed to the DCTVU writers who cast actors who suit the roles.

Zombie Zod sounds like a proto-Bizzaro.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Zombie Zod as the Big Bad that all 3 (4?) heroes band together to fight in Act 3?

That sounds even worse tham Doomsday.

It could be the same thing. Or perhaps Ahtman is on the right track.

 Compel wrote:
That seems like a short sighted choice to me...

Very.

Why give yourself fewer options like that? If it was Jason Todd that doesn't mean you have to bring in Nightwing, but it means that the door isn't shut.

But Gadot doesn't look athletic. She looks like a supermodel pretending to be athletic. I'm willing to wait and see the final movie to decide but saying she is great based on 2 seconds of film isn't very convincing.

Well, I only said she looks good, not great. I think the uniform works and that she looks good as Diana Prince. We'll just have to wait for the fight scenes.

It's a hard role to cast. She's not just an athlete or common Amazon warrior, but a goddess. Gina Carano is a pretty lady and looks athletic, but she doesn't have 'goddess' looks. And her acting is every bit as questionable as Gadot's. At times, Jaime Alexander looks like she walked right off the pages of the Azzarello/Chiang run, but she turned the role down due to other commitments, IIRC. And again...chops?

So regarding your Bizarro theory, we don't know who Callan Mulvey is playing yet, do we?

To be fair he said good, not great.

That said she looks nothing like a professional beach volleyball player in build. Ahtman has it right. She looks like a model trying to be athletic. Compare her to Emily Blunt (also a very slim lady) in Edge of Tomorrow.

Looks like Lex Luthor (Jesse Eisenberg) is getting into character by referring to being at Comic Con as akin to genocide and that being there also made him a victim.

He has it pretty rough. I'd rather be anything else but rich and famous.

Seems like a throw-away comment that is starting to get picked up and blown out of proportion. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Seems like a throw-away comment that is starting to get picked up and blown out of proportion. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

To be fair you don't have to do a lot of work to 'blow up' someone comparing a fan convention to genocide. Either he doesn't know what genocide really is, what a convention is, or both but it is still a silly thing to do. I'm still going to see the film, mind you. Eisenberg puts his head up his own ass in interviews somewhat frequently so this isn't some departure; he might be a fine person but terrible at interviews which is one of the main things about the job.

What he said was:

"It is like being screamed at by thousands of people. I don't know what the experience is throughout history, probably some kind of genocide. I can't think of anything that's equivalent."

He definitely shouldn't have compared it to 'genocide' but whatever - I guess he doesn't like publicity tours!

 Alpharius wrote:
What he said was:

"It is like being screamed at by thousands of people. I don't know what the experience is throughout history, probably some kind of genocide. I can't think of anything that's equivalent."

He definitely shouldn't have compared it to 'genocide' but whatever - I guess he doesn't like publicity tours!

He isn't the worst person ever or any hyperbole like that, but it was incredibly short sighted (or perhaps...privileged?) to compare a convention to genocide. How good must you have things when you think the two are even remotely comparable?

I suspect people are putting far more weight on a light hearted throwaway comment than it really deserves.

 Ahtman wrote:
He isn't the worst person ever

Well, he is playing Lex Luthor...

 insaniak wrote:
I suspect people are putting far more weight on a light hearted throwaway comment than it really deserves.

He also equated himself to a victim because someone wanted to interview him. Sounds like he'd love a large dose of obscurity. Hope he finds that monkey's paw.


Or maybe he just needs more of what Wil Wheaton loved about conventions, the fansex.

He should just learn to revel in it like Tom Hiddleston.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
What he said was:

"It is like being screamed at by thousands of people. I don't know what the experience is throughout history, probably some kind of genocide. I can't think of anything that's equivalent."

He definitely shouldn't have compared it to 'genocide' but whatever - I guess he doesn't like publicity tours!

He isn't the worst person ever or any hyperbole like that, but it was incredibly short sighted (or perhaps...privileged?) to compare a convention to genocide. How good must you have things when you think the two are even remotely comparable?

How good must someone have it to compare a crappy day at work to murder? "This is torture"/"that was murder" is an extremely common phrase, despite homicide occurring somewhere around the globe every 60 seconds and being a super serious problem.

Hyperbole and nonequivalent metaphors are a standard part of the English language. Never understood why throwaway comments like this trigger people.

It wasn't a throwaway comment it was said in an interview, and he didn't use a colloquialism either. Pretending it is either seems fairly disingenuous or at least looking for excuses. If you want to outrage go the current Planned Parenthood thread. That should suit your desire to be morally outraged at something. Let's be honest: if it were really that much of a nothing then why comment on it? I don't really think that much of it but this is a discussion site so here you go. At least I'm not making excuses about how silly it is.