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 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Making things for fun BA might be too much of a sacrifice Also, it's hurtful to me to have to rig the game in my favor.

It has nothing to do with 'Rigging'. It has to do with making sure you are having FUN.

Unfortunately, the handicapping necessary for BA isn't fun for anyone.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Making things for fun BA might be too much of a sacrifice Also, it's hurtful to me to have to rig the game in my favor.

It has nothing to do with 'Rigging'. It has to do with making sure you are having FUN.

Unfortunately, the handicapping necessary for BA isn't fun for anyone.

You may not have to be handicapped, it may just be the situation you are in. The handicap was just part of a list of things we do to make sure ANY person could have a good time, you are reading to much into it.

There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

That being said, it would be fun to have a model left on the table around turn 4.

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know how to build a list with terminators at this point. There's only about 5-7 things I use out of the BA codex at this point.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know how to build a list with terminators at this point.

I find it simple, you just put some in your list.
Method A: Build your list around Terminators
Method B: Add them on a current list.

Method B: That is what I did when I started using Sternguard. I dropped a Devistator Squad and an Assault Squad and went from there.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
There are very few matchups where the BA are not at a significant disadvantage. This is independent of terrain, mission, etc. We just have lots of units that just don't work well in 7th ed.

We have seen some units are better than other here, but we still use them.
That is another big difference between your META and mine.
If I want to pull out my Ogryn's and Rough Riders I pull them out. We don't spend hours going of states and run our numbers though Mathhammer. We use the 'Rule of Cool' here.
That goes for both The Special Rules and Models.
I play my Sternguard with 8x Combi-Plasma and 2x Plasma Guns because I like how my Kit Bashed Combis look and It is cool to have them jump out of a Stormraven along with an Assault Dred. The fact that they are really effective at killing targets is secondary.

Interesting. I wouldn't even know how to build a list with terminators at this point.

I find it simple, you just put some in your list.
Method A: Build your list around Terminators
Method B: Add them on a current list.

Method B: That is what I did when I started using Sternguard. I dropped a Devistator Squad and an Assault Squad and went from there.

Except that I'm conditioned to hate them and never use them, lol. Because they are poor in the game.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, that's exactly what list tailoring is.

All my lists have grav because I don't know when I'm going to need it. This makes Orks a much harder match up for me than you because I don't know to leave the grav guns at home. The Ork list could just have easily been tri-Riptide. In my view, this gives you a skewed view of the effectiveness of Orks compared to how I face Orks.

This reason is why Eldar are so disgusting. They don't have to make these choices because the scatterlaser is so UNIVERSALLY effective.

No that is your Definition of "List Tailoring".
Your META has made it so it is hard to have a good "TAC" list, because such a thing does not exist anymore (as someone put it and I agree).
There is also some logic to how we do it. If Space Mares are about to Assault a Ork force, they are going to leave the Grav at home. Very rarely does one attack a completely unknown force. You should know if you are face Orks or Nids or Necrons.
Now Chaos and Dark Eldar are another issue...

You'd probably still take Grav on a Relentless platform and Grav Cannons because they do things SO well.

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
Do you prefer the drop pod + melta method, taking out tanks at the beginning of the game?
Or
Do you throw in some plasmas and drop in for some anti infantry action?
Or
Do you save your points and rely solely on special ammo?
Or
Have you found some other creative and deadly way to field your Sternguard Veterans?

And by all means, describe any instances where your strategy worked out beautifully. (link some battle reports if you have them.)

For my Sons of Medusa I run five guys, Drop Pod, three combi-plasmas, two plasma guns, LOCATOR BEACON
-Drop in FIRST, erase something, and get chewed up. Also gives me a means of getting characters in without short-changing tactical squads. The Locator beacon on their pod also gives me a possible foothold for the rest of the army.

For my Sons of Antaeus its 10 guys, usually in a Rhino. Two Grav guns and a power weapon generally. I usually run them around with two or more tactical squads to act as secondary infantry clean-up. A lot f people seem to forget that Sternguard have two attacks base. So if I can make them Relentless, not terribly difficult, so that's a wall of gunfire and then thirty attacks on the charge and that hurts. Not as much as Death Company, not as much as Vanguard Veterans, but enough to tip the scales.

I see nothing wrong with a "I'm facing orks and thus I'll take flamers not grav" as others have noted. it's actually pretty realistic. and if still maintains the possiability to suprise.you could end up running into someone running a Great WAAAGH detachment, with a minimum number of 'ardboyz, and the lion's shreof his infantry being Mega armored Nobz (not gonna debate if this is an effective unit or not, just that a SM player might be missing his grav guns if he's facing down 50 2+ armor save Orks.

 Dust wrote:

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
Do you prefer the drop pod + melta method, taking out tanks at the beginning of the game?
Or
Do you throw in some plasmas and drop in for some anti infantry action?
Or
Do you save your points and rely solely on special ammo?
Or
Have you found some other creative and deadly way to field your Sternguard Veterans?

And by all means, describe any instances where your strategy worked out beautifully. (link some battle reports if you have them.)

For my Sons of Medusa I run five guys, Drop Pod, three combi-plasmas, two plasma guns, LOCATOR BEACON
-Drop in FIRST, erase something, and get chewed up. Also gives me a means of getting characters in without short-changing tactical squads. The Locator beacon on their pod also gives me a possible foothold for the rest of the army.

For my Sons of Antaeus its 10 guys, usually in a Rhino. Two Grav guns and a power weapon generally. I usually run them around with two or more tactical squads to act as secondary infantry clean-up. A lot f people seem to forget that Sternguard have two attacks base. So if I can make them Relentless, not terribly difficult, so that's a wall of gunfire and then thirty attacks on the charge and that hurts. Not as much as Death Company, not as much as Vanguard Veterans, but enough to tip the scales.

Red Scorpions can do Relentless Sternguard with that one character that's like 60 points.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Red Scorpions can do Relentless Sternguard with that one character that's like 60 points.

Oh I'm aware. When I was initially structuring and building my Sons of Antaeus I was debating between Red Scorpions and Ultramarines. I ended up going with Ultramarines because it seemed more appropriate given the scant bits of lore that exist for them and how Greek I had gone with some of the modelling and aesthetic choices.

I've thought about a Red Scorpion army though and if I do a Haas Sternguard squad it'll be with heavy weapons, probably multi-meltas or Grav Cannons.

8 combi meltas and 2 heavy flamers in a pod.

BrianDavion wrote:
I see nothing wrong with a "I'm facing orks and thus I'll take flamers not grav" as others have noted. it's actually pretty realistic. and if still maintains the possiability to suprise.you could end up running into someone running a Great WAAAGH detachment, with a minimum number of 'ardboyz, and the lion's shreof his infantry being Mega armored Nobz (not gonna debate if this is an effective unit or not, just that a SM player might be missing his grav guns if he's facing down 50 2+ armor save Orks.

I suppose that's true. It's an interesting play group difference.

Well I'm a bit silly.

I run 5 with 2 grav guns and 2 c-grav, nothing on the sarge. Runs at about 170 points I think.

I usually stuff them in a Razorback and use them as a poor man's carnifex. If people shoot them , fine. Carnifex worked. If they leave them alone... Well...

I realize it's not the best, but its a nice little trick.

 darkcloak wrote:
Well I'm a bit silly.

I run 5 with 2 grav guns and 2 c-grav, nothing on the sarge. Runs at about 170 points I think.

I usually stuff them in a Razorback and use them as a poor man's carnifex. If people shoot them , fine. Carnifex worked. If they leave them alone... Well...

I realize it's not the best, but its a nice little trick.

Why nothing on the Sergeant?

I'd never really considered Sternguard with my Blood Angels (the power armor I play), though my most recent list had them front and center in my battle plans.

I wanted to take advantage of a few HQs that I've had access to, but had not yet really messed around with since the new codex drop: Mephiston and Cypher. Mephiston because he's still pretty great even though he's now a 5T, 3W IC (what a nerfing, huh?), and Cypher because he has a bunch of rules that SEEM to be great, like Shrouding, Hit and Run, and non Gets Hot Plasma shots (2 of em) that Overwatch at full BS (which is 10, for those keeping score), but a price tag that really feels too expensive for where he'll be utilized on the battlefield.

Which is where the Sternguard come in. 7 Sternguard in a drop pod, Led by Mephiston, a Sanguinary Priest, and Cypher, who, hopefully, land in some ruins to do their dirty work so they can take advantage of that sweet, sweet, Shrouding bonus (I guess any cover will do...heck,..even open ground is better than the lot of them normally get considering the unit's lack of an Invul save). The Sternguard could be loaded for bear, but I feel 2 meltaguns and 2 combi-meltas is probably good enough to for this unit, as I'd like them to be able to pop armor if needbe, but their real job will be to wade into and through the opponents infantry, their combination of special rounds, accurate plasma, and force weaponry being able to take on most foes while Hit and Running wherever they need to be.

That's the plan, at least...now I need to convert up a Cypher, maybe even a Mephison (I hate both models), and get some Sternguard in my queue.

Surround them with Guardian Defenders and cut loose with 18 S4 rending shots at BS4 per unit (and before the Starcannon), potentially with re-rolls to hit and/or to wound. If that fails, Psychic Shriek them to death. If that fails, use whatever firepower I have remaining to force the Sternguard to suffer a critical existence failure.

Oh wait, I think I got the wrong idea...

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Personally, I like using them in the Deathwatch Kill-team formation from Warzone : Damnos. It's one captain + 2 or more Sternguard / Vanguard in any combination.

When I choose sternguard, I make them my MC/GMC dedicated killers cause I usually play against Nids or Eldar. With a Drop-pod 2 Grav guns and 1 grav pistol, they strike hard, especially because the formation give them Preferred Enemy (Xenos). I like to stick a Location Beacon on the drop pod so my Tempestus Scions can DS near them and give them support.

I know it's a costly combination but it's very fluffy and I like it. Sometimes, if I play well, my vets can avoid retaliatory fire and then they become even more a pain in the butt for my opponent.

Only issue here is that is an Apoc formation, not a standard 40k formation, like the rest of the book.

I just run them lean, 5 guys with one combi-plasma and a Rhino or Razor. They are very good at clean up and covering a flank.

They look amazing on my shelf


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jimsolo wrote:
8 combi meltas and 2 heavy flamers in a pod.

I'm assuming you combat squad and pop them all first turn... so whatre the flamers for since you shouldn't live to the next one? Just overwatch support?

 Dust wrote:

 darkcloak wrote:
Well I'm a bit silly.

I run 5 with 2 grav guns and 2 c-grav, nothing on the sarge. Runs at about 170 points I think.

I usually stuff them in a Razorback and use them as a poor man's carnifex. If people shoot them , fine. Carnifex worked. If they leave them alone... Well...

I realize it's not the best, but its a nice little trick.

Why nothing on the Sergeant?

Ran out of grav guns...

Lol no. Actually I just like to keep things cheap. I could have skimped elsewhere and given the Sarge a gun or sword but does he really need it? The whole idea is just to throw out some grav shots and provide a distraction. No point giving the Sarge anything since he is really just another model in the unit. Sure he can take melee weapons but in a unit full of guns, why? I got a bunch of honour guard. I'm okay.

What about a 1st Company Task Force with 3 ten man sternguard squads, all in drop pods, using only special ammo.

5 in a pod. 2 melta guns, 3 combi-meltas.

Melta-cide. Not long for this world, but usually blow something the feth up.

I've been considering doing a counts-as Sternguard Deathwatch squad. I figure they match the closest with the special ammo and all. I was thinking of doing a grav squad, since my CF use a plasma squad and a melta squad already and fluff-wise grav would be great for killing Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, MegaNobz and other assorted Xenos monstrosities. Thoughts?

I run a 9 man squad with 3 of them carrying combi-plasma in a Drop Pod. Drop them in on turn 1 to take out my opponent's Warlord/Big Scary monster or hard hitting infantry unit. If your opponent fields daemon princes, bloodthirsters or any other MC, then sternguard are a good way of taking them out early in the game before they can get near your army. I take that many as I use them in my Crimson Fists force as Pedro Kantor gives all Sternguard Obj Secured. Due to their numbers (and my other stuff that needs to be dealt with), they usually stay alive for a couple of turns at least and make a real nuisance of themselves. Plus because they are a bigger unit, they will tie up my opponent when he makes the inevitable revenge assault from me taking out his precious snowflake unit.

 Slaphead wrote:
I run a 9 man squad with 3 of them carrying combi-plasma in a Drop Pod. Drop them in on turn 1 to take out my opponent's Warlord/Big Scary monster or hard hitting infantry unit. If your opponent fields daemon princes, bloodthirsters or any other MC, then sternguard are a good way of taking them out early in the game before they can get near your army. I take that many as I use them in my Crimson Fists force as Pedro Kantor gives all Sternguard Obj Secured. Due to their numbers (and my other stuff that needs to be dealt with), they usually stay alive for a couple of turns at least and make a real nuisance of themselves. Plus because they are a bigger unit, they will tie up my opponent when he makes the inevitable revenge assault from me taking out his precious snowflake unit.

You've had more luck with plasma vs grav weapons?

Also, since you're worried about the inevitable assault, have you tried giving the sergeant a power weapon or attaching an IC to the squad?

 minigun762 wrote:

 Slaphead wrote:
I run a 9 man squad with 3 of them carrying combi-plasma in a Drop Pod. Drop them in on turn 1 to take out my opponent's Warlord/Big Scary monster or hard hitting infantry unit. If your opponent fields daemon princes, bloodthirsters or any other MC, then sternguard are a good way of taking them out early in the game before they can get near your army. I take that many as I use them in my Crimson Fists force as Pedro Kantor gives all Sternguard Obj Secured. Due to their numbers (and my other stuff that needs to be dealt with), they usually stay alive for a couple of turns at least and make a real nuisance of themselves. Plus because they are a bigger unit, they will tie up my opponent when he makes the inevitable revenge assault from me taking out his precious snowflake unit.

You've had more luck with plasma vs grav weapons?

Also, since you're worried about the inevitable assault, have you tried giving the sergeant a power weapon or attaching an IC to the squad?

I have had really good luck with Plasma yes. My regular opponent fields mainly CSM's and daemons. Sorry, I forgot to mention that my sergeant has a power fist which I hide in the middle of the unit. Grav is awesome, but I decided to go for plasma on that unit as I just plasma weapons (that's the Dark Angels player in me influencing it). I've had great success against Chaos Space Marines and a Daemon Prince with them and they are really quite handy at tying other units up in combat if need me.

I use the First company Task force with 3 units of sternguard in drop pods 2 armed with grav cannons and the third with a heavy flamer. All non heavy are armed with combi-melta.

Basically a Deathwatch army. I usually use Imperial Fists Tactics.

I use Lias Issodon as my commander. He brings the Raptors Chapter Tactics to the game, granting Scout and Stealth on the first turn and allowing Bolter-armed units to fire Rending Sniper Rounds when necessary. Needless to say, this is an excellent force multiplier for your Sternguard, especially when you consider Issodon's own buffed bolter, which can also fire the Sternguard specialist rounds.

However, the real strength of Issodon is in his Warlord Trait. He comes automatically with the Master of Ambush trait, which allows him to infiltrate D3 units (and himself), as well as granting Shrouded to the squad he joins. This means he will always be able to infiltrate at least one unit. All for a tidy 190pts.

If you ask me, there is no better way to use your Sternguard than Infiltrating them onto a mid-field objective with Shrouded (and Invisibility, if you commit a lucky Librarian to them as well) and daring the enemy to come and take it from you.

 Spineyguy wrote:
I use Lias Issodon as my commander. He brings the Raptors Chapter Tactics to the game, granting Scout and Stealth on the first turn and allowing Bolter-armed units to fire Rending Sniper Rounds when necessary. Needless to say, this is an excellent force multiplier for your Sternguard, especially when you consider Issodon's own buffed bolter, which can also fire the Sternguard specialist rounds.

However, the real strength of Issodon is in his Warlord Trait. He comes automatically with the Master of Ambush trait, which allows him to infiltrate D3 units (and himself), as well as granting Shrouded to the squad he joins. This means he will always be able to infiltrate at least one unit. All for a tidy 190pts.

If you ask me, there is no better way to use your Sternguard than Infiltrating them onto a mid-field objective with Shrouded (and Invisibility, if you commit a lucky Librarian to them as well) and daring the enemy to come and take it from you.

I'll come take it Also, an ignore cover grav cent squad will make you very, very sad.