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Hey dakka, this is a bit of a long (and perhaps unusual) shot but I'm looking for people who would be interested in developing a game/fluff. The project was started by me and several others way back but lately people began getting busier so the project has been a bit slow. Rather than let the project mothball for a probable eternity, I was thinking why not see if people would be interested in continuing it?
It was originally meant to be a tabletop game that could replace BFG but with advances in Firestorm and seeing how big the project is overall, we decided a long time ago this should just be a "for fun" project and nothing too serious. Although in the future if this thing ever gets anywhere, anyone who has contributed to it will get their full credit. Currently the project is in a half-finished state where the rules for the game is pretty much at a standstill and we are still trying to flesh all the fluff out before we get back to the crunch.

So basically if you ever wanted to write fluff for a sci-fi game and have fun while doing it drop me a message. Again, this is a "leisure" project, so no payment, no deadlines, pretty much contribute how much you want, when you want. Your contributions will be fully credited although like I said, expect nothing serious out of it.

What sort of writing are you after? Would something in the style of technical or historical writing be useful (as opposed to short-story or vignette)?

 Daba wrote:
What sort of writing are you after? Would something in the style of technical or historical writing be useful (as opposed to short-story or vignette)?

To be quite frank... anything goes right now. Some parts of the fluff are well established and are not likely to change. For instance, 2-3 of the factions currently are well-set as they are. On the other hand, the remaining factions and their fluff are frameworked but not filled in yet.
If anyone wants to write a story-like fluff or vignette about something that's fleshed out, awesome. If someone wants to work on the dark areas that needs to be filled (that would be technical/historical writing) also awesome.

Consider me interested! I don't have any experience with writing about battles between spaceships however, would that be a problem?

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
Consider me interested! I don't have any experience with writing about battles between spaceships however, would that be a problem?

Nope. No previous experience required. As long as:

1. You got basic grammar.
2. Respect others and accept that your material may not make it to the final cut.
3. Have fun.

How much are you paying, and what sort of word count are you looking for? Do you have a setting bible yet? Could use a lot more details still.

 Laughing Man wrote:
How much are you paying, and what sort of word count are you looking for? Do you have a setting bible yet? Could use a lot more details still.

"So basically if you ever wanted to write fluff for a sci-fi game and have fun while doing it drop me a message. Again, this is a "leisure" project, so no payment, no deadlines, pretty much contribute how much you want, when you want. Your contributions will be fully credited although like I said, expect nothing serious out of it. "

.... yeah.

Missed that line somehow. >.< Definitely not interested then, as with pretty much anything that's "for fun," or "good exposure." If you're planning at all to ever do anything with the project, at least write up a contract for a cut of the eventual proceeds.

 Laughing Man wrote:
Missed that line somehow. >.< Definitely not interested then, as with pretty much anything that's "for fun," or "good exposure." If you're planning at all to ever do anything with the project, at least write up a contract for a cut of the eventual proceeds.

Thanks for the advice.... would have done that if I thought the project was going anywhere anytime soon.

*Shrug* Even if it's years out, it's pretty sleazy to make money off someone's work without compensating them. I get not paying off the bat, since you obviously don't have an income stream and I doubt you've even figured out ownership yet, but it's still no excuse for not thinking ahead.

I have to agree with Laughing Man here. If you want someone to work for you, you need to treat it like such. The whole "for exposure" thing is a huge red flag to any professional or career-minded artist, and it instantly drives those away who have the level of experience and talent that will make your project a success.

I don't feel like you are intending to be sleazy or shady, but that is what comes across. The message that gets sent is "I want you to give me your best and to meet these criteria for my project, and I will give you nothing in return."

 Laughing Man wrote:
*Shrug* Even if it's years out, it's pretty sleazy to make money off someone's work without compensating them. I get not paying off the bat, since you obviously don't have an income stream and I doubt you've even figured out ownership yet, but it's still no excuse for not thinking ahead.

Does it comfort you if I tell you I do have plans on compensating everyone and splitting an even share IF this thing generates anything? As for "official ownership", if I HAD TO clear it up, I'd have to say it currently lies with the original group of people who started it. But in the current state, even that can be up for debates since the original group took the stance of "whoever contributes most is the leader and owner".

 curran12 wrote:
I have to agree with Laughing Man here. If you want someone to work for you, you need to treat it like such. The whole "for exposure" thing is a huge red flag to any professional or career-minded artist, and it instantly drives those away who have the level of experience and talent that will make your project a success.

I don't feel like you are intending to be sleazy or shady, but that is what comes across. The message that gets sent is "I want you to give me your best and to meet these criteria for my project, and I will give you nothing in return."

Hmm... if 2 people says the same thing, I'd have to agree with you both. If it really does come across as such.... hmm I have to rethink the options to keep everybody in the loop and well accounted for. I could say all I want about not meaning any harm but obviously proof and evidence is needed.





If anyone has any good ideas or systems to throw at me while I'm figuring this out, I'd really appreciate that.

Think of it this way. Let's say someone offers you a job, and then adds "well I can't pay you now but once it is off the ground it will be totally compensated." Would you take the job on that?

I've freelanced for a few years as a writer and editor. The best advice I can give you is to make sure you have a goal and plan in mind. Asking for a broad "writer" does not really give the potential partner/employee much to work with. If you want fluff, figure out the kind of fluff you want (examples are the larger scale 40k fluff, and the personal character fluff of something like WM/H). Next, work with your writer to determine how much you need and how long it is going to take. This is where you are going to determine compensation and yes, if you want top notch work, you'll need to pay for it. It is an investment, but one worth doing because (just to level with you here from experience) the writers who jump all over "for exposure" and unpaid work are not the kinds of writers you want.

Now that said, it doesn't need to be a fortune sized investment, nor does it need to happen all at once. Think of it like commissions for any other kind of art. They can be done one at a time, and paid for accordingly. Just make sure that any writer you work with understands that there is a larger plan, and that their work will be used in your product, to avoid legal issues.

 curran12 wrote:
Think of it this way. Let's say someone offers you a job, and then adds "well I can't pay you now but once it is off the ground it will be totally compensated." Would you take the job on that?

I've freelanced for a few years as a writer and editor. The best advice I can give you is to make sure you have a goal and plan in mind. Asking for a broad "writer" does not really give the potential partner/employee much to work with. If you want fluff, figure out the kind of fluff you want (examples are the larger scale 40k fluff, and the personal character fluff of something like WM/H). Next, work with your writer to determine how much you need and how long it is going to take. This is where you are going to determine compensation and yes, if you want top notch work, you'll need to pay for it. It is an investment, but one worth doing because (just to level with you here from experience) the writers who jump all over "for exposure" and unpaid work are not the kinds of writers you want.

Now that said, it doesn't need to be a fortune sized investment, nor does it need to happen all at once. Think of it like commissions for any other kind of art. They can be done one at a time, and paid for accordingly. Just make sure that any writer you work with understands that there is a larger plan, and that their work will be used in your product, to avoid legal issues.

Yes... I do see what you are saying and understand what you mean.
But this was never a project that revolves around... well money. It is something that is meant to be like a DnD game. Where the players and GM put in time and effort just to have fun. Nobody got paid with any real money, no one paid any either (except that one good man who bought the books and dice). I mean... does that make any sense? Even if the project is ever deemed "finished" and even "marketable for profit" there is a huge chance that it'll never see the light of generating profit. But people who made it can look back and say, "I created a whole complete universe alongside others." Like I'm not asking anyone for a deadline or super quality material. That was never the intention.

What you and Laughing Man are saying are... professional material. And that's not what we are looking for here. Maybe it won't work the way we are imagining it and maybe it'll just tumble down into a hole and just mothball in the end but I just wanted to give it a shot. Perhaps I'm just being too optimistic and this attempt has been for naught. In which case I should just give up on it now or just turn it into something professional like you said. Since what you are saying is completely right if we wanna take it down that road.

Well, if it is a hobby project, then you'll want to change your approach. I think you'd be better off drawing people in and developing fluff through that, rather than coming out and saying "looking for writers". The latter sets a tone that this is a project and work, not so much a hobby labor of love. When I see "developing fluff for a game", the first thing that comes to mind for me is "I need skilled workers", which implies a certain tone and project. And while lovingly developing a world is nice, it is time and effort, you either need someone to get just as invested as you, or compensation.

To me, it sounds like you want to share the growth of something with someone. That said, you're gonna want to give them something to work with, draw them in and get them invested. It sounds like you need to marshal what you have and present it. If it is good, people will be drawn to it.

Well this got serious pretty fast I mean, I like writing stories and fluff, but my writings aren't of a 'professional' level just yet I'm afraid (which would probably be required if this is actually going to become a product of some sort)....

 curran12 wrote:
Well, if it is a hobby project, then you'll want to change your approach. I think you'd be better off drawing people in and developing fluff through that, rather than coming out and saying "looking for writers". The latter sets a tone that this is a project and work, not so much a hobby labor of love. When I see "developing fluff for a game", the first thing that comes to mind for me is "I need skilled workers", which implies a certain tone and project. And while lovingly developing a world is nice, it is time and effort, you either need someone to get just as invested as you, or compensation.

To me, it sounds like you want to share the growth of something with someone. That said, you're gonna want to give them something to work with, draw them in and get them invested. It sounds like you need to marshal what you have and present it. If it is good, people will be drawn to it.

Thanks for the point about the approach. I will... work on changing the tone then. I thought I made myself clear but its obvious I do not have the talent for that in this case lol.
As for presenting... how would you exactly suggest that I do this? Just asking you since you seem to have a good concept of how I should ago about doing this. Like put everything that's been written on public? (not a good idea me thinks) Or just parts? If so, which parts?

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
Well this got serious pretty fast I mean, I like writing stories and fluff, but my writings aren't of a 'professional' level just yet I'm afraid (which would probably be required if this is actually going to become a product of some sort)....

Well, curran12 made some good points and I'm gonna change the first post to be more... clear about how its a hobby project and not a professional one. So if you are still interested, we can talk in more detail about how you would like as compensation and how you are willing to help.

Frankly, you should put out everything you have. Maybe edit it a bit to clean it up and make it readable if all you have is one big text file that is disorganized. But yeah, put what you got out on the table. Now is not the time to be shy or to try to be coy and cute with 'oh this is hidden stuff OoooooooOoo'. If you want people to share your level of investment, they need to see what you have.

Remember that everyone else here does not have your intimacy and familiarity with your project. They are not going to become invested in it because you ask them to. You need to get people to see what you see, and that means showing your work.

I'd back Curran. When you say, 'I have a project', that makes me think that you're working on something with the intent of bringing it to market, by pure virtue of the fact that you've included no real detail on the project. And if that's the case, people are going to want paying.

If, on the other hand, this is a fan-made thing, you need to lay out the universe, what's been made so far, and so forth, in order to make people want to contribute. Just hearing, 'I have a space combat project' doesn't quite provide enough detail to hook people into providing their free time and effort for nothing.

Exactly.

Are you going to be selling this "product"? Yes or no.

Alright this is good stuff to know. Really good to know. It's just the matter of communication I see.

I might just put this on hold, try to organize my stuff for presentation and come back when I have it ready.

 kronk wrote:
Exactly.

Are you going to be selling this "product"? Yes or no.

Since I'm the lord of not being clear, the answer is pretty much no.

 Laughing Man wrote:
Missed that line somehow. >.< Definitely not interested then, as with pretty much anything that's "for fun," or "good exposure." If you're planning at all to ever do anything with the project, at least write up a contract for a cut of the eventual proceeds.

Ditto that.

Especially since I do writing for projects that DO (or will) eventually pay.



MB

I've paid every writer and artist that has worked with me, and I have a day job and save to pay them.

You can and should do the same. Otherwise, you'll have to do enough work of your own to the point where the offer of some equity entices them enough to work for less.

What people are probably concerned about is that maybe this will only ever be a fun project that people work on and eventually get a workable idea that is spread slowly around obscure corners of the internet and perhaps even builds a bit of a cult following that comes on Dakka and talks about how much superior it is to GW's latest reboot of Gothic, but which is never sold and doesn't make a dime in any way.

On the other hand, maybe this idea turns into something big, multi-million dollar publicly traded big and it turns out that one of the people that tosses in an idea here doesn't get any compensation for what they put into this because some ambitious greedy dude takes the whole thing over and manages to convince courts the early contributers shouldn't get a cut.

People don't necessarily think your that guy or that this project will take off, but don't want to take the risk of being in that position.

Then there are people that do this professionally or semi professionally and don't want to give out their skills for free. They will probably give you quality work, but since it is work for them, you have to pay them or they need to be convinced there is security that they will be compensated if it takes off. It could be an investment of sorts.

Then there are people that just like the idea of making stuff up and don't necessarily have much skill and practice at it. You may get lucky and find someone who puts out high quality stuff, but more than likely won't. On the other hand, since they are just looking for casual and the since the process is its own reward, they may be ok with just getting on board without having a team of lawyers drafting a contract covering all the possible contingencies which may take a lot of joy out of the whole thing and may not be what you want at all.

Good luck on the project. I'm not the guy for you and while I get where some of these other guys are coming from, their tone is kind of a buzz kill which is unfortunate. But it is a legit reality.

Hmm.... thanks for all the input everyone, you've given me a lot to think about and ways to change. Which is good. I think I have a better idea about what I'm supposed to do with this.

I think I'll ask an Mod or Admin to kill this thread until I can post another, more complete one based on your suggestions. Cheers.

I could do tidbits here and there start a thread on what you want the setting to be let us brainstorm and you can take the bits you like

Not a pro, but definitely interested in a bit of world building. I understand people's concerns, but it could be a laugh!

Edit - autocorrect nonsense.

I suspect the OP was asking for people who were interested in it for the love of the process. Much like computer game modders who build fantastic addons to games without expecting to be paid. Different communities, i guess.

I'm in it for funzies. However, if you make a million bucks, then I will challenge you to to the Fields of Law, where we will meet in glorious legal battle.

Or I'll just flake off. Whatever's easier.

This sounds interesting, but (and if this is not ok, please just say so) could I read some of the current fluff written for the other factions? I want to see if its something that really hits me in the fluff and gets me interested.

I generally write for fun, I have finished around 6 books, none published, around 400 pages apiece, I just enjoy writing.