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Just played my ATC list vs a friends list at my FLGS. How the hell do you kill knights as necrons? He is running 4 knights and an assassin. I have 12 tomb blades, 2 ghost arks of warriors, barge lord, 10 immortals, two harvests. Yes I ran the decurion and reclamation but still I could have maybe pulled a tie if we kept going but ugh.

Suggestions?

Gauss and Warscythes are your friends.

Not sure if serious.

Necrons are possibly one of the best anti-tank armies just because they can put out so much Gauss and glance everything into oblivion.

D

Shoot them. Failing that, charge them with whip coil wraiths or a smashing spyder. Virtually your entire army can hurt the Knights, unlike most other books.

I've watched decurions just like yours steamroll knights with no ridiculous interference from the dice gods.

 evildrcheese wrote:
Not sure if serious.

Necrons are possibly one of the best anti-tank armies just because they can put out so much Gauss and glance everything into oblivion.

D

Not against massed armour. Necrons are good against the occasional Land Raider or Ironclad, not against an entire army of Knights. Warriors are slow, so expect to be firing at the ion shield, meaning it takes on average 108 shots to drop a Knight. Assuming 20 Warriors and 2 Ghost Arks in the OPs army, and assuming none of that gets killed, it's going to take the better part of three turns to drop a single Knight.

My bet would be to try to whittle them down to around three hull points, then hit them with Wraiths and Scarabs. Also, play the mission. He only has four models.

it takes a lot of warriors to deal with knights, statistically like 40 warriors or something like that (not the best with statistics)

you can strip hull points turn by turn, but even though you can put out so much gauss, doesn't mean you are gonna be removing knights from the table with the snap of your fingers.

try lychguard with their warsythes, smashing spiders, and if your meta is FW freindly, try the voidshroud bomber, S10 blasts are nothing to scoff at, and they will atleast strip a few extra hullpoints if your are struggling with fitting some of the other options into your list.

For gauss, the necron army lacks heavy hitting dedicated anti-tank platforms. Not a big deal, but would be nice for a few.

Im not a necron player, but these are what I could think of off the top of my head.

happy wargaming,

-Mikey

niv-mizzet wrote:
Shoot them. Failing that, charge them with whip coil wraiths or a smashing spyder. Virtually your entire army can hurt the Knights, unlike most other books.

I've watched decurions just like yours steamroll knights with no ridiculous interference from the dice gods.

Pretty much this.

Wraiths can damage Knights pretty well, and tie them up for other things to get into better position. Scarabs will strip hull points off pretty well, and Gauss is going to help at range.

You could also try flyers, obviously. A Knight army has no reliable way to deal with them, and with flying transports you can ensure that you have Warriors and several sides, bypassing the ion shield. Tesla Destructors aren't half bad either, especially from the side.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Shoot them. Failing that, charge them with whip coil wraiths or a smashing spyder.

Spyder is terrible against Knights. Not only it'll hit later, one smash attack isn't enough to deal much damage on it. And the stomp will take it away.

Wraiths are more interesting, at I5.

Okapi wrote:
You could also try flyers, obviously. A Knight army has no reliable way to deal with them, and with flying transports you can ensure that you have Warriors and several sides, bypassing the ion shield. Tesla Destructors aren't half bad either, especially from the side.

I'd think 4 Doom Scythes would do the trick if they came out early enough (4 S10 Lance blasts are pretty awesome) but I don't know the Mathhammer for it.

....Gauss?

People like to think "hahaha, Necrons slaughter vehicles!", and while this is generally true, Knights present more difficulty than would at first seem. Knights have a 4+ Invulnerable save on one facing, lots of hull points, and are not going to lose effectiveness until entirely destroyed. Statistically, speaking, 54 Warriors at half range will kill a Knight in a turn 50% of the time (with no additional aid);

6 HP's; you need to inflict twice that to get through the save (12); you need to roll 6's to glance to get those (72); and that's only the 2/3rds of the shots that hit (108). Of course, if you're at half-range, you get two shots instead of one (54).

= 6 ÷ (1/2) ÷ (1/6) ÷ (2/3) x 2 = 54

Not going to lie, that's pretty terrible. That's around 700 points of Warriors to take out one Knight. I mean, it's pretty incredible that they can do it, and a lucky volley can kill a Knight in one go, but it's just as likely that the Warriors never hurt it.

To improve your odds, you need to change something about that above equation. The most obvious place to look is getting rid of that "1/2". That cuts the number of Warriors you need in half. 54 is insane, but 27 Warriors is actually a lot more reasonable. If you can force a Knight to put its shield up elsewhere, your other Warriors will have a lot easier time taking this thing down. You also get rid of the shield by striking in close combat with Scarabs (just watch out for the D-blade!), which also have the benefit of really increasing that last number, though at the cost of shrinking the second-last number (they'll hit on 4+'s). Warscythes are pretty darn good, and C'Tan Shards should be able to go toe-to-toe with at least one (again, watch out for 6's!), while also conveniently surviving the Knight's cannon pretty effectively. Never discount Heavy Destroyers either - they can quickly lay the hurt, what with Preferred Enemy and all.

Good luck! Quad Knights are one of the top-tier tourney lists right now, so this is an uphill battle for anyone!

Stand in cover with 3+ warscythes in the unit. You should kill the knight before it swings.

I watched a sword/board lychstar with orikan and some warscythe lords/overlord take down a pair of charging knights before they got to swing, tank everything from a 3rd knight who had also charged and then demolish that as well in the next round of combat. All without losing a single model.

Granted that's a pricey deathstar, but it also polished off >1100 points of superheavies in 2 rounds of combat without losing anyone.

Prefered enemy heavy destroyers will also do a number on knights, especially multiple units (which even come conviniently packaged in a formation) that force them to split their shield facings. This also allows your gauss weapons to get their licks in at greatly increased efficiency as well.

Night/doom scythes can also contribute since S7 tesla works against knights just fine, and Str 10 lance blasts with increasing BS (that also works on tesla) certainly doesn't hurt either.

9x Wraiths with coils should actually beat a knight for roughly equivalent points (387 vs ~375) depending on your luck with rends and his with stomps, though it might take a few rounds.

'Crons really shouldn't have too many problems vs knights.

necrons have a butt load of gauss,

and can feild high volume of haywire shots as well as well...

put that haywire in with the guy that lets them deep strike, shoot back armour, and dead knights will follow.

cheap, effective, and usefull against other stuff thats not knights as well.

That used to be the case, but with the new codex they lost the haywire Cryptek.

All good options. However I can't change my list from what I currently have.

Wraiths vs Knights? D weapons ignore reanimation and a lucky stomp of 6 is a complete wipe off the table.

ATC is a team based tournament. I am my teams best shot against knights since I am the necron player. I probably should have moved quicker to him in my game. I decided to hold far back and let them come to me. However, being a newish player, didn't realize their range. Also the STR10 AP1 blast templates from multiple of the knights were crazy. Yes. one of the knights was his warlord too.

Destroyer cult with Heavy's

bdunlap03 wrote:
All good options. However I can't change my list from what I currently have.

Wraiths vs Knights? D weapons ignore reanimation and a lucky stomp of 6 is a complete wipe off the table.

ATC is a team based tournament. I am my teams best shot against knights since I am the necron player. I probably should have moved quicker to him in my game. I decided to hold far back and let them come to me. However, being a newish player, didn't realize their range. Also the STR10 AP1 blast templates from multiple of the knights were crazy. Yes. one of the knights was his warlord too.

Destroyer weapons only ignore your 3++ on a 6 though, and he's still hitting on 4's with only 3 attacks.

Yes, his 6 on a stomp removes your dudes, but you're on big bases, so you can space them out and only lose 1 or 2. On the other hand, your 6's to pen are rending and will always remove a hull point, and he has no defense against that, and you have a lot more attacks than he does.

Knights don't have a Str 10 AP1 large blast. Str 9 AP1 melta is the thermal cannon, but since that can't double out wraiths, they don't really care since they still get their 3++ against it, and their 4+++ if in a decurion as part of a harvest.

Round 1: FIGHT!
9 wraiths w/whip coils
4 attacks on the charge x 9, hitting on 4's is 18 hits. 3 of those are rending doing 3 glances/pens and taking him down to 3 HP.
IK attacks back with 3 attacks, hitting on 4's for 1.5 hits, you should lose a wraith every 2nd round (since Str 10 will double you out), averaging 0.41 wounds
IK stomps with 2, maybe hits 2 wraiths each time, you take ~.66 of a wound, putting a single wound on 1 wraith (pro tip, this will be the guy to eat any chainsword attacks that get through next round).

Round 2: FIGHT!
We'll be generous and say the IK knocked out 2 wraiths with his attacks, so 7 wraiths remain.
7 * 3 * .5 * 1/6 = 1.75 rends.
IK knocks out 2 more wraiths.

Round 3: FIGHT!
5 * 3 * .5 * 1/6 = 1.25 rends. Imperial knight explodes, hopefully scattering away. If not, you probably lose 2 or 3 more wraiths and now the remaining 2-3 wraiths gleefully continue on their way, brutalising anything that happens to wander past. And that's not even accounting for RP against stomp wounds.

Does RP work against a stomp roll of six ?

No, stomps don't actually inflict wounds, it just removes the models.

Necron's do not get RP against:

Removed from play effect (example: Stomp on a 6)

Destroyer Weapon (Example:Eldar D-Scyth)

I had 10 Lootas strip all but 1 Hull point off a knight in a round of shooting.
Tankbustas also ripped another to bits in one round.
If Orks can manage it, I am fairly sure Necrons can dig up a tool or two to deal with them.

Glance it to death with your cheap as warriors and watch the knight player die inside

Praetorians are good at dealing with vehicles. Give them void blades & particle casters. That's 50 attacks on 10 models, glancing on 6's. Judicator batalion means you get 2 units who'll re-roll everything vs one knight of your choice as long as the stalker is alive.

Another good unit would be warscythe Lychguard, they might not catch a knight on foot but they can stop a knight from catching your other units. He can't possibly survive a single round if he gets caught up in that shitstorm of Str7 armorbane.

My general strategy for dealing with Knights is to get 2-4 HP from shooting, and finish off with a Power Fist / Meltabomb or two.

Necrons should be able to achieve that fairly easily, by putting a handful of Scythe Lords into your infantry. They can't challenge you out, so just chop away while you LOS crap. Yes, you MIGHT get stomped, but if you only need to do a couple of HP, you're apt to achieve that before you get stomped off.

Add in some Wraiths [Rending is the key factor, with a million attacks] and you're golden.

DaPino wrote:
Praetorians are good at dealing with vehicles. Give them void blades & particle casters. That's 50 attacks on 10 models, glancing on 6's. Judicator batalion means you get 2 units who'll re-roll everything vs one knight of your choice as long as the stalker is alive.

Another good unit would be warscythe Lychguard, they might not catch a knight on foot but they can stop a knight from catching your other units. He can't possibly survive a single round if he gets caught up in that shitstorm of Str7 armorbane.

This right here is probably the best way. I've been finding that praetorians can deal with a couple of problem areas, like Knights.
And they also help with that mobile ap-2 rod for termicide.

Praetorians are under appreciated for sure plus their mobility is really good.

I just saw a game like this with a very similar Decurion list, but with a Destroyer Cult. Between the Destroyers & Wraiths, 1-2 Knights dropped per turn. Necrons tabled the Knights by turn 3.

'Crons Against Knights:
Top tier = Heavy Destroyers, Void Blade Praetorians, Doom Scythes, Warscythes (particularly on Cult D.Lords)
Mid tier = Wraiths, Cult Destroyers, C'tan shards, Heat Ray/HGC Stalker, Doomsday Ark
Lower tier = Gauss (Warriors/Immortals/Ghost Arks/Tomb Blades), Scarabs, Nightscythes, Annihilation Barge
Gak tier = everything else

 skoffs wrote:
'Crons Against Knights:
Top tier = Heavy Destroyers, Void Blade Praetorians, Doom Scythes, Warscythes (particularly on Cult D.Lords)
Mid tier = Wraiths, Cult Destroyers, C'tan shards, Heat Ray/HGC Stalker, Doomsday Ark
Lower tier = Gauss (Warriors/Immortals/Ghost Arks/Tomb Blades), Scarabs, Nightscythes, Annihilation Barge
Gak tier = everything else

I think you are under-estimating scarabs. 200 points of scarabs (so 10 bases) can have 50 attacks on the charge all with entropic strike (strips 4 HP on average). If they are Harvest scarabs and you had the foresight to give them shred then that's 7 HP stripped on average and one very dead 370 point knight.

So yeah, a scarab farm list will murderize an all knight list.