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As the title says.

Are standard storm bolter/power fist Terminators usable now? They did get a price drop, but would a squad of 5 in an Imperial Fists 1st Company Taskforce Formation be ok, or are Hammernators just that much better?

Also, out of all special weapons, which is best? Default, heavy flamer, assault cannon, or cyclone launcher?

Depends on your meta.

Waiting for Martel to come in and tell you just how bad it is.

It could be nice with SoT terminators. Powerfists will still kill things. just hope you dont run into too many ap2 weapons.

They need something like what gw did for assault marines and devastators.

The problem with using terminators for their ranged attacks is that storm bolters really don't do all that much, and 2+ saves aren't nearly as good as they once were in ranged combat. However, AP2 is much more rare in CC, and S8 AP2 is a respectable statline there. If you do use them, plan on assaulting ASAP. The most important thing to remember about using a unit like terminators though is to combine them with greater or equal threats, so something else draws the nastier fire away from them or your termies can eat up the high strength/low AP shots instead to keep something else alive. Dropping a single unit of 5 termies by themselves ensures that they will die.

I'm not sure I'd use them in a CAD, but the 1st company formation is pretty decent. Fearless, fear and preferred enemy are all decent little tweaks, and the -2 to leadership debuff could potentially be very strong.

Okapi wrote:
I'm not sure I'd use them in a CAD, but the 1st company formation is pretty decent. Fearless, fear and preferred enemy are all decent little tweaks, and the -2 to leadership debuff could potentially be very strong.

Pretty fun with psychic Shreks.

The issue is always with getting them into assault without being shot off the board.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As the title says.

Are standard storm bolter/power fist Terminators usable now? They did get a price drop, but would a squad of 5 in an Imperial Fists 1st Company Taskforce Formation be ok, or are Hammernators just that much better?

Also, out of all special weapons, which is best? Default, heavy flamer, assault cannon, or cyclone launcher?

Are they usable? Depends on where you plan to use them. Are you thinking of running a list with them in a competitive GT? Don't bother. Are you just wanting to run them against your buddy bob with his mediocre chaos space marine list with mutilators and khorne berserkers in rhinos? Go nuts.
Your question literally can't be answered without at least that much context.

As for a special, I think the heavy flamer compliments them the most, helping to thin out and overwatch hordes, which is one of their many weaknesses in cc.

Regular terminators have never been viable.

In the space wolves codex at least they are actually effective deepstrike combi weapon platforms. 3 combi plasma terminators cost less than 3 combi plasma wolf guard in a pod. Wolf guard have a minimal unit size of 5 so if you want a cheap drop melta unit you can make one for less than 120 with 3 terminators while standard combi Wolf Guard are 5 + pod for 175. 5 combi terminators would be 190 plus you could take an assault cannon or cyclone missile launcher for around 210. After firing their combi load the wolf guard are rather limited in use while terminators are far more durable and have power weapons.

Edit: Terminators can also trade in their power weapon for a storm shield so they can run around with a 2+/3++ so if you really want them to not die to AP2 then you can do that at the cost of stronger melee attacks.

In terms of the Vanilla Dex, they're 10 points cheaper than Assault Termies. So how often do you run into AP 1/2 ?

If you don't see much AP 2 shooting, then you're obviously ahead by taking "Tactical" Terminators. If you can keep them in terrain, with a 4+ cover save, you're probably better off in terms of survivability for the points by taking Tactical Terminators, even if you face a lot of AP2 shooting. The vanilla dex gives you a price break on "tactical" Termies.

So how much AP 2 Close Combat attacks do you face? That's what it boils down to for me. I send Assault Termies into the worst conditions. Knights. Death Stars. Daemon Princes. Carnifexes. The kind of stuff that you only survive with an awesome Invul save. Regular Termies don't cut it there, unless they have Chapter Master Smash-Face to tank wounds.

Tactical Terminators are better at everything, except facing ultra-melee-beasts, when compared to Assault Termies. If I'm taking Termies, I generally want them to face ultra-melee-beasts. So I take TH / SS termies. If you want them to do anything else, go with Tacticals. If you want to commit CM Smash-Face to tanking for them, you could even go that route with Tacticals, though it's a bit riskier.

I like Assault Cannons, because they're viable against all targets.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Regular terminators have never been viable.

This.

 greatbigtree wrote:
In terms of the Vanilla Dex, they're 10 points cheaper than Assault Termies. So how often do you run into AP 1/2 ?
If you don't see much AP 2 shooting, then you're obviously ahead by taking "Tactical" Terminators. If you can keep them in terrain, with a 4+ cover save, you're probably better off in terms of survivability for the points by taking Tactical Terminators, even if you face a lot of AP2 shooting. The vanilla dex gives you a price break on "tactical" Termies.

So how much AP 2 Close Combat attacks do you face? That's what it boils down to for me. I send Assault Termies into the worst conditions. Knights. Death Stars. Daemon Princes. Carnifexes. The kind of stuff that you only survive with an awesome Invul save. Regular Termies don't cut it there, unless they have Chapter Master Smash-Face to tank wounds.

Tactical Terminators are better at everything, except facing ultra-melee-beasts, when compared to Assault Termies. If I'm taking Termies, I generally want them to face ultra-melee-beasts. So I take TH / SS termies. If you want them to do anything else, go with Tacticals. If you want to commit CM Smash-Face to tanking for them, you could even go that route with Tacticals, though it's a bit riskier.

I like Assault Cannons, because they're viable against all targets.

I'd mainly use the squad to act as a more durable unit to shield my Sternguard and augment them. Melee doesn't really bother me, and anything that could threaten me there I can focus fire on.

I still think Terminators and Assault Terminators are some of the coolest models from GW. I field them from time to time.

They don't do well, but I still think they look sweet!

I miss my 4th Edition Black Templars codex that allowed 2 heavy weapons in a squad of 5. Two of them! Give me that back, and I'll start taking them all of the time. Go Go Gadget Assault Cannons!

I think they could do OK as part of a mostly Ravenwing force with the new Dark Angels. 1 HQ and 2 Elites is all you need to get some pretty sweet benefits and do that classic Deathraven one-two punch... You probably want to mix at least one TH/SS termie in each squad, but, you can.

I am debating running a squad of Tactical Terminators instead of Honour Guard with Pedro Kantor. Tactical Terminators mesh pretty well with Pedro. Their saves are pretty similar and they have equal range weaponry. Toss a squad in a Land Raider Crusader or Redeemer with Pedro, enjoy the +1 Attack and rerolling 1s on the Storm Bolters. Is it optimal, not really, but it is more survivable than Honour Guard, and the models cost the same. Honour Guard put out more at-initiative attacks by virtue of having two close combat weapons, but the Terminators do lay down some ranged fire, even if it is just Storm Bolters.

Remember that all terminators are melee units and you'll be fine.

Colehkxix wrote:
Remember that all terminators are melee units and you'll be fine.

While true, it isn't like they aren't capable of putting some shots downfield before they get into melee. Even if those shots happen to be crappy Storm Bolter shots.

Don't regular termies get access to combi-weapons with the new dex? I think it's written in the gear section that they get combi-plasma/melta/flamer for 5 pts instead of a stormbolter. If so, they're viable.

 koooaei wrote:
Don't regular termies get access to combi-weapons with the new dex? I think it's written in the gear section that they get combi-plasma/melta/flamer for 5 pts instead of a stormbolter. If so, they're viable.

Nope. Just Terminator Captains/Chapter Masters, Librarians, and Chaplains can take Combi-Weapons. Terminators did not gain access to any new gear.

That's a pity. This alone would make termies good. But nope.

I regularly field terminators because I like the modela, and I'm happy with the paint job on them, but...yeah, they're never the man of the match.

I think the solution for terminators to make them more in line with the fluff is termie armour gives +2T, then they might be viable and termie characters would be a viable choice compared to bikes...

D

+2?
t7 ajax and nurgle termies is a bit ott
even carnifex is t6

I'm fine with +1 T termies though.

 koooaei wrote:
That's a pity. This alone would make termies good. But nope.

Some Combi weapons would definitely make them be able to take advantage of their Relentless. As it stands, besides the CML and Assault Cannon, there is no reason for them to have Relentless.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
That's a pity. This alone would make termies good. But nope.

Some Combi weapons would definitely make them be able to take advantage of their Relentless. As it stands, besides the CML and Assault Cannon, there is no reason for them to have Relentless.

You forgot about Plasma Cannons [Dark Angels] and Auto Cannons [Chaos Marines]

I would say:

>INB4 Martel shitposting

But he already has. Damn, you're efficient.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
That's a pity. This alone would make termies good. But nope.

Some Combi weapons would definitely make them be able to take advantage of their Relentless. As it stands, besides the CML and Assault Cannon, there is no reason for them to have Relentless.

You forgot about Plasma Cannons [Dark Angels] and Auto Cannons [Chaos Marines]

I don't consider Dark Angels Terminators or Chaos Terminators "regular" Terminators. But yes, PCs and ACs earn the Relentless. But the average, no-upgrades Terminators have zero reason to have Relentless.

 koooaei wrote:
+2?
t7 ajax and nurgle termies is a bit ott
even carnifex is t6

I'm fine with +1 T termies though.

why not +1 T with 2 wounds... i think back in the old days they had 2 wounds but its been a long time cant remember anymore lol.

 koooaei wrote:
That's a pity. This alone would make termies good. But nope.

When was the last time you saw choas terminators used? They're less points than the new tactical termies (only because they've got power weapons stock instead of fists) and can have a combi melta/plasma/flamer for 5 ppm and they're still terrible, with their only use being that they're 112 points for 2 dudes with combi meltas.

Tactical termies are terrible. Give the entire unit the ability to take assault cannons for 5 ppm or cyclones for 10 ppm and you'd have yourself a deal. If you make them T5 and 2W, then they're just crappy centurions, and if you only do one of those things, then they're really crappy centurions.

Has anyone tried a big unit with Armenneus Valthax?

OK, so you're paying quite the tax for Valthax, but sure you can build an army that'll use a backfield repairer/conversion beamer. The big unit can then drop on any locator beacons you might have (scout list?), and sit on an objective poisoning stuff to death. OK, costly, but 10 2+/5++ models takes at least a bit of shifting.

Probably in the "not quite viable for competition, but could be great fun in more casual play" area, but hey, perhaps I'm underestimating it?

 Drasius wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
That's a pity. This alone would make termies good. But nope.

When was the last time you saw choas terminators used?

I constantly see them and they're doing good. Their only real problem is morale.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spacewolfoddballz wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
+2?
t7 ajax and nurgle termies is a bit ott
even carnifex is t6

I'm fine with +1 T termies though.

why not +1 T with 2 wounds... i think back in the old days they had 2 wounds but its been a long time cant remember anymore lol.

That's centurions.