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Lets face it, the Imperium is at a bit of a low point, enemies on all sides, over stretched being worn down. They're surviving, just, and even that may be an understatement.

So who could step up and save them or finally push them over the tipping point, a Primarch.

Fulgrim seems to be sitting at home pleasuring himself, Perturabo doesn't seem to be doing much, Lorgar is meditating, if any of these decided to take their thumbs out they could probably take cadia in a weekend so why don't they?

Meanwhile Leman Russ, Vulkan and Jaghati Khan (who both may or may not be captured) and Corax are off adventuring, any one of these could probably just walk in and sort the Imperium out or at least improve it with their superhuman knowledge and skills but they don't choose to help either.

What's going on? Seriously!?

Discuss...

Cadia has plot armor. Chaos was supposed to conquer it back in the old days of the Eye Of Terror world campaign, and thus dealing a critical blow to the Imperium (according to everything one can read about the strategic importance of the planet). But GW retcon the victory saying Chaos only took half of the planet and Imperial Navy was still in control of the neighbouring space (which is actually in concordance with the outcome of BFG games, IIRC) to save the statu quo between both sides and allow the Imperium to go on like nothing happened ; Primarchs are strong but shareholders are way more powerful !

The Primarchs are each in a plot-stasis bubble. After the HH they ceased to exist.

Except Angron, who got so angry about the stasis bubble that he invaded Armageddon, and got himself perma-banned from the universe by the Marty Stu's in silver.

They are waiting for GW to advance the plot which they wont. Perhaps when HH has run its entire course.... oh well..

After the Primarchs ascended, they became caught up in the Great Game. Chaos fights itself far more than it fights anything else. By being so tied to their respective gods, most of them don't care about the materium nearly as much as they care about beating down the forces of the other chaos gods within the warp. It's only when someone approaches them who actually cares about the materium, like Abaddon, that any of them stop to listen.

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Cadia has plot armor. Chaos was supposed to conquer it back in the old days of the Eye Of Terror world campaign, and thus dealing a critical blow to the Imperium (according to everything one can read about the strategic importance of the planet). But GW retcon the victory saying Chaos only took half of the planet and Imperial Navy was still in control of the neighbouring space (which is actually in concordance with the outcome of BFG games, IIRC) to save the statu quo between both sides and allow the Imperium to go on like nothing happened ; Primarchs are strong but shareholders are way more powerful !

Not quite - they more froze the time line in that state. Eldrad is about to launch his boarding action against the Blackstone Fortress, which was the climactic final battle of the campaign.

Yeah it wasn't all bad for CSM. If the results were actually followed the k sons and ahriman would all be dead after the absolute brutality they took in the Eldar warzone. So I think it was a wash as far as retcons go

The Lion is waiting for dearest dad to tell him to wake up so he is a strong possibility. I guess they need to leave some mystery and what if to the storyline. If everything is all out there then the storyline would lose that intrigue and I don't think I would like that. Keep them away and continue with the magic I say.

Fulgrim is (probably) pleasuring himself, but pledged support for Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade.

Lorgar taught Abaddon some daemon summoning techniques in preparation for the 13th Black Crusade in the Black Legion supplement. Not much else. I'm surprised they even bothered to give him that much.

Mortarion fluff-wise was stated to have his plague planet be somewhat close to real space and stated to regularly launch raids on the Imperium, although actual SPECIFIC examples are rare. The few specific examples I know of are that he's been stated to have led The Purge for a period of time, the latest CSM codex had an event where he invaded a planet with nurgling filled orcs, and of course, there's that time he went around raiding Imperial Space until Draigo gave him open heart surgery.

Magnus was stated to basically be a grimdark Yukari Yakumo that finds psykers he likes and then spirits them away to his planet. Once again, actual SPECIFIC fluff examples of him doing anything are rare, although of course he's a prominent antagonist in the Space Wolf novels. He explicitly refused an audience with Abaddon for the 13th Black Crusade, unlike many other traitor primarchs.

Perturabo is stated to still be leading the Iron Warriors. Again, specific examples of him doing anything are rare. Although he did team up with Abaddon to test the Iron Hands in a Black Crusade and also infected a forge world with a techno virus in the last CSM codex.

Alpharius... who the hell knows.

Besides the first War for Armegeddon, Angron also did the Dominion of Fire event where he rampaged across a ton of Imperial Worlds. IIRC he also pledged to support Abaddon in the 13th Black Crusade but I could be wrong.

Lemon Russ, Corax, and Jaghatai Khan are either dead, captive, or ADVENTURING. A large figure that some Imperium members suspect is Lemon Russ was sighted during the Thirteenth Black Crusade leading the Thirteenth Company. It probably really is him.

The Lion is sleeping, but fully healed and just waiting for the Emperor to awake him.

Vulkan is rumoured to return once the Salamanders are done finding his relics. Dunno what his current status is since the BL Horus Heresy books keep flip flopping on what's going on with him.

 Slaphead wrote:
The Lion is waiting for dearest dad to tell him to wake up so he is a strong possibility. I guess they need to leave some mystery and what if to the storyline. If everything is all out there then the storyline would lose that intrigue and I don't think I would like that. Keep them away and continue with the magic I say.

Eh, Sanginius is already starting to manifest again on the battlefield (in the form of Sanguinor), when ENOUGH BLOOD HAS BEEN SPILLED AND SKULLS TAKEN!!!!!! But, I mean, that's probably a coincidence, right guys? So sanguinus might be the first one to come back, before even the lion wakes up.

The fates of the AWOL Primarchs is basically unknown, and will surely be radically altered by future Black Library publications. For now, what we seem to know is:

Now that they're creatures of the warp, the Daemon Primarchs have a new perspective on things, and so the problems of the materium seem a bit less pressing. Leave it to the mortal champions to have their little wars against the Imperium, while the Primarchs play the Great Game in the warp. Angron and Magnus have done a few things in the materium (attacking Armageddon and Fenris).

Who knows what the hell Omegon is up to. He could still theoretically be in command of Alpha Legion.

Leman Russ is trapped fighting in the Eye of Terror, or dead.

Corax was headed towards the Eye of Terror, and so probably suffered the same fate as Russ.

Jaghati Khan is lost in the Webway, or dead, or imprisoned by the Dark Eldar and wishing he were dead.

Vulkan is imprisoned in Trazyn the Infinite's collection.

Roboute Guilliman is on the edge of death but perserved in stasis on Macragge.

Lion El'Jonson is in stasis or sleeping within The Rock.

Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius and Horus are super dead.

Rogal Dorn, Konrad Curze and Alpharius are probably dead.


Lion El'Jonson could wake up tomorrow and re-enter the narrative of 40k without need to explain too much. Vulkan and Guilliman would need a little more explaining, but it has been established that they are not dead. Unless the BL authors retcon it. These kinds of threads are tough, because the next book might change everything.

 Silverthorne wrote:

 Slaphead wrote:
The Lion is waiting for dearest dad to tell him to wake up so he is a strong possibility. I guess they need to leave some mystery and what if to the storyline. If everything is all out there then the storyline would lose that intrigue and I don't think I would like that. Keep them away and continue with the magic I say.

Eh, Sanginius is already starting to manifest again on the battlefield (in the form of Sanguinor), when ENOUGH BLOOD HAS BEEN SPILLED AND SKULLS TAKEN!!!!!! But, I mean, that's probably a coincidence, right guys? So sanguinus might be the first one to come back, before even the lion wakes up.

We're not entirely sure what the Sanguinor is though. In a (somewhat) recent audiobook we were shown how the original Sanguinor was created, he was a Sanguinary Guard that went through a ritual of sorts to become a proxy for Sanguinius in the Imperium Secundus. Whether or not the 40k Sanguinor is the same guy is completely up in the air, but it certainly isn't clear what the Sanguinor is.

Kurze is most definitely dead. M'Shen cut his fething head off.

Taffy17 wrote:
Fulgrim seems to be sitting at home pleasuring himself

Haha, cause he doesn't just get someone(thing) else to do it for him.

 Psienesis wrote:
Kurze is most definitely dead. M'Shen cut his fething head off.

Eh, it's possible that Sanguinius reincarnated. I'd file Curze coming back under "gak happens". Maybe Chaos turns his still-existing soul into a Daemon Prince against his will or something.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
The fates of the AWOL Primarchs is basically unknown, and will surely be radically altered by future Black Library publications. For now, what we seem to know is:Who knows what the hell Omegon is up to. He could still theoretically be in command of Alpha Legion. Alpharius is probably dead.

There is a conspiracy theory that involves them both. The Cabal told them that either Chaos wins, Imperium wins, humanity lose or chaos loses, humanity loses, Imperium loses. There are two outcomes, and there are two of them. There are evidence they were working against each other (Omegon destroyed facility set up by Alpharius that was preventing White Scars from reaching Terra). They also stole original Primarch genetic code for Horus, but they handed him fakes. Alpha Legion didin't utilize this also, as they're regular Chaos Marines. They also broke Horus plans a bit, which he wasn't obviously happy about, but when he questioned Alpharius/Omegion, he was told that "The Devil is not Mocked" which is a part of proverb which goes "When evil faces evil, the Devil is not mocked", which means that even it they're both evil, they might not be on the same side.

And then, Omegon kept emergency suit of armor on his ship, which was unpainted. Unpainted power armor is grey, just like Grey Knight's. Grey Knights are said to be better than regular marines (Stolen genetic code anyone?), Malcador choose the founders of it from both Traitor and Loyal legions, and the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights was named "Janus" (also apparently more awesome than Emperor, but what did you expect from Mary Sue of Mary Sues), which was old Roman god of begginings and ends with two faces. Alpha and Omega...

Oh boy...



Also, it seems that Alpharius had no feelings on sacrificing people while Omegon wasn't really happy about that so he may wanted to find another way out.

Why are all the Primarchs pledging support to Abbadon? Couldn't they do it much better themselves?

The in-fluff justification is that the Daemon Primarchs have become aloof to the goings on of the materium and are waging the great game in the Warp for the Chaos Gods

Failbaddon is supposed to be actually competent, for some reason.

 BattulBruvaCat wrote:
Failbaddon is supposed to be actually competent, for some reason.

Well since 6th edition GW has retconned all the Black Crusades to have been smaller strikes as part of a bigger plan instead of individual attempts to destroy the Imperium

 DanielBeaver wrote:
The fates of the AWOL Primarchs is basically unknown, and will surely be radically altered by future Black Library publications. For now, what we seem to know is:

Now that they're creatures of the warp, the Daemon Primarchs have a new perspective on things, and so the problems of the materium seem a bit less pressing. Leave it to the mortal champions to have their little wars against the Imperium, while the Primarchs play the Great Game in the warp. Angron and Magnus have done a few things in the materium (attacking Armageddon and Fenris).

Who knows what the hell Omegon is up to. He could still theoretically be in command of Alpha Legion.

Leman Russ is trapped fighting in the Eye of Terror, or dead.

Corax was headed towards the Eye of Terror, and so probably suffered the same fate as Russ.

Jaghati Khan is lost in the Webway, or dead, or imprisoned by the Dark Eldar and wishing he were dead.

Vulkan is imprisoned in Trazyn the Infinite's collection.

Roboute Guilliman is on the edge of death but perserved in stasis on Macragge.

Lion El'Jonson is in stasis or sleeping within The Rock.

Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius and Horus are super dead.

Rogal Dorn, Konrad Curze and Alpharius are probably dead.


Lion El'Jonson could wake up tomorrow and re-enter the narrative of 40k without need to explain too much. Vulkan and Guilliman would need a little more explaining, but it has been established that they are not dead. Unless the BL authors retcon it. These kinds of threads are tough, because the next book might change everything.

If this is factual, then you have done me a great service!!!!

Thank you for this.

Personaly, I think the Primarchs are waiting for the right time to strike at the traitor legion, however Russ was heading towards the Eye of Terror. Abaddon was said to have tried to corrupt Russ during the 12th Black Crusade Abaddon led himself.

I think Russ is the most loyal of all the Primarchs, so he WAS probably killed in the EoT.

Taffy17 wrote:
Why are all the Primarchs pledging support to Abbadon? Couldn't they do it much better themselves?

Abaddon is greater than them all.
He bears the mark of Chaos Ascendant and all the Daemon Primarchs have bowed to him, willingly or otherwise.
Even Be'lakor, first and mightiest of Daemon Princes, nominally supports him and he is herald of the End Times.

Animus wrote:

Taffy17 wrote:
Why are all the Primarchs pledging support to Abbadon? Couldn't they do it much better themselves?

Abaddon is greater than them all.
He bears the mark of Chaos Ascendant and all the Daemon Primarchs have bowed to him, willingly or otherwise.
Even Be'lakor, first and mightiest of Daemon Princes, nominally supports him and he is herald of the End Times.

Be'lakor's dataslate has him working with Abby due to reasons, but says he plans to defeat Abby, and be the champion of chaos himself. Not actually supporting Abby, but is sorta shadowing him for the job.

Also, Failbaddon the Armless is what Abby will always be.

How about these:

- It was not Sanguinius that was killed by Horus, but in fact his lookalike that was used for his stand-in for ruling Imperial Seccundus. Wishful thinking I know...

- It is Alpharius that's in a stasis capsule on Maccrage and not Guilliman.

- Cypher is trying to get to Terra to use the Lion's blade to give further power to the golden throne, save the imperium, wake up the Lion and redeem himself and those fallen Angels not yet taken by Chaos. Cypher takes his orders from the Lion via messages from the watchers in the dark.

 Slaphead wrote:

- It is Alpharius that's in a stasis capsule on Maccrage and not Guilliman.

Because Guilliman turned to heresy, please!

Taffy17 wrote:
Lets face it, the Imperium is at a bit of a low point, enemies on all sides, over stretched being worn down. They're surviving, just, and even that may be an understatement.

So who could step up and save them or finally push them over the tipping point, a Primarch.

Fulgrim seems to be sitting at home pleasuring himself, Perturabo doesn't seem to be doing much, Lorgar is meditating, if any of these decided to take their thumbs out they could probably take cadia in a weekend so why don't they?

Meanwhile Leman Russ, Vulkan and Jaghati Khan (who both may or may not be captured) and Corax are off adventuring, any one of these could probably just walk in and sort the Imperium out or at least improve it with their superhuman knowledge and skills but they don't choose to help either.

What's going on? Seriously!?

Discuss...

Short answer, it's 40k. We have no idea if they are out there or not. Much of what we are shown may or may not have anything to do with what really went on/goes on. Not unlike Marvel Comic's no-prize GW has the 'well, that was someone's propaganda' for most of this stuff.

Longer answer, Arthurian myth. Arthur gets mortally wounded, is secured in the Isle of Avalon (or under a hill/mountain depending on which version you read) where he is healed. In England's darkest hour he will come again. Other cultures have similar myths, where some glorious and great king/warrior/ruler is sleeping or recovering from whence he will come again to save everyone. The Primarchs and the Emporer are just borrowing from those legends.

 Selym wrote:

 Slaphead wrote:

- It is Alpharius that's in a stasis capsule on Maccrage and not Guilliman.

Because Guilliman turned to heresy, please!

lol, now that would be funny!

Nah, I meant that Guilliman is actually dead and Alpharius took his place and pretended to be him. Unfortunately, Fulgrim cut his throat before he could get the smurfs to do bad things.

//Caustic mode engaged//

Nah. They're all dead as door nails. The Lion is a corpse, and Guilliman will be as soon as the stasis gets shut off. 'Adventuring' Primarchs are all dead, gone or mounted as trophies on some Dark Eldar mantle.

Lost Primarchs probably got scragged by the Big E when he found them and they politely declined to be part of his enlightened totalitarian atheist state. That'll teach 'em to think for themselves.

Demon Prince Primarchs are all howling mad slaves of Chaos. Even Magnus. No, especially Magnus, he was deeper into Chaos than anyone other than Lorgar, he just doesn't accept it.

Dead Primarchs are dead. Yep, Dorn is just a pile of scrimshawed finger bones. Not comin' back, it's all wishful thinking. Didn't work for King Arthur either. You're gonna just have to solve your own problems by yourselves, you wusses. Oh wait, you're all mired in the muck of your own ignorance and superstition and chained with fetters of tradition and bureaucracy? Good luck then guys, peace out.

Vulkan is a Perpetual you say? He must hate you Salamanders all very, very much then, since he hasn't done diddly to help you for over ten millennia. Guess what? If he hasn't put in an appearance yet he probably won't. John Grammaticus Elixir probably wasn't enough to sustain a freakin' Primarch anyway...

As for Alpharius and Omegron, if they're not actually dead they're busy fething with each other, and thus canceling each other out - messily. Alpha Legion, the one Chaos Legion that's busy doing a Dark Angels style civil war, and it's soooo secret their fanboys can't imagine it in their darkest dreams. Only the Alpha Legion does it with agents and daggers instead of bolters and thermabombs. Legion I and XX fighting themselves, how's that for Alpha/Omega?

//Caustic mode disengaged//

So... your headcanon can be anything your twisted minds can conceive. 40k conciously encourages it with the vagueness of their fluff. And that's a good thing because it lets you wholeheartedly love any faction you choose. ANY faction.

When you're going full-bore gonzo Grimdark, why stop at half measures?

My two twisted cents.

 Slaphead wrote:
- It was not Sanguinius that was killed by Horus, but in fact his lookalike that was used for his stand-in for ruling Imperial Seccundus. Wishful thinking I know...

There is no way the Sanguinor could have been confused with Sanguinius. No wings, still the size of a normal marine, and wore a mask sculpted to resemble Sanguinius.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
Nah. They're all dead as door nails.

It honestly makes more sense that they would all be dead. The Lion's fate is presented as canon, but what makes more sense is that it's just a legend and that the Lion's corpse rotted away within the rock thousands of years ago. Gulliman is dead as soon as they turn off the stasis field, and nothing short of miraculous dark age tech can stop that. Vulkan is alive courtesy of plot armor, but there's no reason he couldn't have been tossed into a black hole or simply locked in stasis forever. Omegon, Khan, Russ, Corax... all of them simply died in battle after a few centuries - even a Primarch's luck runs out eventually.