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In general, which AP2 spam squad is going to be more effective in more situations, assuming equal points spent and no outside support like psychic powers.

Grav cents. Plasma cannons are actually terrible weapons, imo.

Grav centurions are typically a little more effective at dealing with 2+ saves, reliably (simply due to scatter issues). They also live a bit easier.

That being said, devestator marines with plasma cannons can be pretty spectacular and effective if you roll well, though I think centurions will do more for you most of the time.

Also, Cents can handle higher Armor values a little better, if that's an issue, and I find their roughly as good against medium av (simply due to the number of shots).

I worry that the Centurions aren't useful enough without a bunch of support while the Devs can just camp out and lob blasts at targets. Part of that is the range difference though.

With the Devastator Doctrine power armour guys become quite decent.

The small blast template sucks, though.

I hear that Grav Cents are OP and Plasma Cannons are lame, so the general answer seems predictable.
I'm not sure I'd want either of them though.

Wouldn't it be more fair to compare Grav-Cannon Devastators and Grav-Cannon Centurions?

Grav cannon devs are only good with access to relentless.

Martel732 wrote:
The small blast template sucks, though.

That's very true, I've never been a fan of them. They're just too small to reliably catch multiple units unless the opponent makes a mistake or they get tank shocked.

So many things in this game that should be cool but just aren't because of implementation.

Martel732 wrote:
Grav cannon devs are only good with access to relentless.

Point remains, it only makes sense to compare like weapons with like weapons.
And non-Relentless Salvo seems better than non-Relentless Heavy since at least you're not Snap Firing.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Grav cannon devs are only good with access to relentless.

Point remains, it only makes sense to compare like weapons with like weapons.
And non-Relentless Salvo seems better than non-Relentless Heavy since at least you're not Snap Firing.

Range 12" sucks, though. Centurions are the premier platform for grav. Plasma cannon should counter grav, but in practice it just fails.

But that still has the point that it's better to compare Grav Cannon Devs to Grav Cannon Cents (or I suppose Plasma Cannon Devs to Plasma Cannon Cents if the latter can take them, I don't know).

The cents are better in pretty much every way. More durable in the 7th ed meta, and have relentless.

Which has nothing at all to do with what I said in any way, shape or form.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Which has nothing at all to do with what I said in any way, shape or form.

I guess I'm completely misunderstanding the question. I don't use devastator marines. Ever. I don't use plasma cannons. Ever.

My point was to compare like with like.
Unit A with Weapon X versus Unit B with Weapon X rather than Unit A with Weapon X versus Unit B with Weapon Y.

Grav cents vs grav devs, then?

The grav devs are far more vulnerable to return fire, and if they move, only have a 12" range. The cents are slow and purposeful, but still get the full 24".

Alright, whatever. That's fine, just wanted to make the point that that's the comparison that should be made, rather than Grav Cents versus Plas Devs.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Alright, whatever. That's fine, just wanted to make the point that that's the comparison that should be made, rather than Grav Cents versus Plas Devs.

Oh, yes. I see you are referring to the OP's subject. Yes, you are probably right.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Alright, whatever. That's fine, just wanted to make the point that that's the comparison that should be made, rather than Grav Cents versus Plas Devs.

While it might have been a more fair or obvious comparison, it was also one I wasn't interested in as I personally fail to see the benefit of grav weapons on non relentless platforms besides pistols.

Plasma cannons on a static unit vs grav weapons on a relentless unit appear to have more in common on the table top, both being mid range AP2 weapons with good potential for killing 2+ save units.

I'd be much more excited for the plasma cannon if it were ROF 3 or something like that. Of course, there's gets hot!

 minigun762 wrote:

While it might have been a more fair or obvious comparison, it was also one I wasn't interested in as I personally fail to see the benefit of grav weapons on non relentless platforms besides pistols.

Plasma cannons on a static unit vs grav weapons on a relentless unit appear to have more in common on the table top, both being mid range AP2 weapons with good potential for killing 2+ save units.

So, if not being Relentless kills the Grav Cannon for you, why wouldn't it kill the Plasma Cannon which suffers even worse?

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:

While it might have been a more fair or obvious comparison, it was also one I wasn't interested in as I personally fail to see the benefit of grav weapons on non relentless platforms besides pistols.

Plasma cannons on a static unit vs grav weapons on a relentless unit appear to have more in common on the table top, both being mid range AP2 weapons with good potential for killing 2+ save units.

So, if not being Relentless kills the Grav Cannon for you, why wouldn't it kill the Plasma Cannon which su
ffers even worse?

Fair question. My initial assumption is the extra 12" range.
That might not be sufficient though, but I believe it would mitigate the lack of movement.

I think the problem with the Plasma devs is that 36" is still pretty short (relatively), especially if your opponent is something like Tau. And for roughly the same cost, you can get Lascannons or MLs, which are more flexible and potentially scarier, imo, in a TAC list.

Definitely more effective than plasma devs, but as grav cents have effectively a 30" range and reroll to wound (apart from an average of 10 hits per shooting with 3), they probably have the edge on damage on most armies (except those with low armor *and* few vehicles or MCs, and I'm not sure how many of those exist)

Cents get hurricane bolters, as well. And if you are already taking Tigurius...

Since when have plasma cannon devs been an option under any circumstance? I guess if you're comparing them to heavy bolters..

Grav are good with the formation but you're probably better off with Cents.

The only time they were good was Long Fangs (space wolves devastators) using fore discipline to shoot 2 lascannons at my rhino, blow it up leaving behind the 5 plague marines and then shooting plasma cannon blasts onto them and me failing my fnp.

Plasma Cannon are a decent weapon. They're not good enough to be the mainstay of your army but they're scary enough to force your opponent to play honest. If he bunches up his troops at all there's a chance you'll land that blast on them and kill three or four.

I like to include Plasma Cannon in small Tactical squads who can hang out on the flank and fire at targets of opportunity. Dreadnoughts can also be a decent place for them.

As for the Devastator/Centurion debate I can't really comment, as I don't own any Centurions. I can tell you that Plasma Cannon are decent in Devastator squads; I like taking 2 Plasma Cannon and 2 Lascannon, and then combat squading the two weapons apart if necessary.

Plasma Cannon aren't my favorite weapon for Devastators, though. As mentioned above I prefer them on other platforms, and I like Missile Launchers and Lascannon for my Devastators - 4 of each, please! They do good work with Imperial Fist chapter tactics.

 Saber wrote:

Dreadnoughts can also be a decent place for them.

How do you run plasma dreads?
Doesn't seem worth it to drop pod them in..