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Is it just me, or are snipers really useless? Precision shots are made only on 6s, 4s to wound. Target still can use its armor/invulnerable/cover save (Rending can't be relied on here) and Feel No Pain. If all of these are somehow failed, wound can still be Look-Out-Sir-ed. Too many factors need to coincide.

So, is there any point in fielding snipers or not?

Ususally, they're fielded for other reasons. SM scouts are fielded to sit on and objective with camo cloaks or IG special weapons squads with sniper rifles because they're 36 points for an ObSec unit.

But yeah, sniper rifles are bad unless you get them cheap. At which point, just think of them as a long range single shot weapon with rending. If they manage to kill something, then you might make back your points.

Even the best snipers in the game are pretty bad so yea...If they're cheap and en masse like kroot snipers then they can work, but don't expect a lone sniper to function anywhere remotely like you would picture him.

As a unit in a game, they are pretty good. (Some are, I should clarify.)

Often very durable, and their shooting can be quite advantageous depending on what you're shooting AT. (Relying on the Precision Shots to kill characters is unreliable. They are much more effective about killing upgrades out of a squad.)

But I think snipers in 40k bear little resemblance to snipers in real life. If that's what you're looking for, then most snipers aren't it.

Their really only meant for cities of death because then they can rend.

Rangers are basically a cheap filler unit take them when you can't afford anything else

Ratlings are 36p of obj sec as someone mentioned

The tau sniper drone team are a waste of points period

Marine snipers are only good if you really want that missle launcher, beyond that.

If you are playing cities of death they jump up to a pretty good unit since they can now rend. Their option for targets jumps up exponentially, and they can inflict all kinds of annoying damage to certain foes.

Sniper Drones are disgusting they put out so much S5 rending firepower.

Sniper Drones, I think are well worth their points. It's the fact that they take a Heavy Support slot that sucks.

 ionusx wrote:
Their really only meant for cities of death because then they can rend.

Rangers are basically a cheap filler unit take them when you can't afford anything else

Ratlings are 36p of obj sec as someone mentioned

The tau sniper drone team are a waste of points period

Marine snipers are only good if you really want that missle launcher, beyond that.

If you are playing cities of death they jump up to a pretty good unit since they can now rend. Their option for targets jumps up exponentially, and they can inflict all kinds of annoying damage to certain foes.

Not sure what you mean?..snipers always have rending.
Well, minus the armour pen bonus but still...ap2 and always wound.

If you want a sniper that functions like a real life one, take a Vindicare Assassin. Okay, real life snipers don't get the Exitus ammo, but you get the idea.

Roknar wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
Their really only meant for cities of death because then they can rend.

Rangers are basically a cheap filler unit take them when you can't afford anything else

Ratlings are 36p of obj sec as someone mentioned

The tau sniper drone team are a waste of points period

Marine snipers are only good if you really want that missle launcher, beyond that.

If you are playing cities of death they jump up to a pretty good unit since they can now rend. Their option for targets jumps up exponentially, and they can inflict all kinds of annoying damage to certain foes.

Not sure what you mean?..snipers always have rending.
Well, minus the armour pen bonus but still...ap2 and always wound.

no they don't, snipers always wound on a 4+ and have precision shots. That's it that's all check your rules again mine are right here in front of me. The golden exception is cities of death using the sniper alley mission type and I quote from shield of Baal supplemental cod rules for sniper alley:

"Units and weapons on both side with the sniper special rule have the rending special rule." which would be why everyone dumped their sniper rifle units on eBay after 7th edition came out or shelved them permanently because now they couldn't rend tanks on 6's which is about all snipers were good for anyway beyond kemping bush and occasionally killing something without a 3+ armor save.

 ionusx wrote:

Roknar wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
Their really only meant for cities of death because then they can rend.

Rangers are basically a cheap filler unit take them when you can't afford anything else

Ratlings are 36p of obj sec as someone mentioned

The tau sniper drone team are a waste of points period

Marine snipers are only good if you really want that missle launcher, beyond that.

If you are playing cities of death they jump up to a pretty good unit since they can now rend. Their option for targets jumps up exponentially, and they can inflict all kinds of annoying damage to certain foes.

Not sure what you mean?..snipers always have rending.
Well, minus the armour pen bonus but still...ap2 and always wound.

no they don't, snipers always wound on a 4+ and have precision shots. That's it that's all check your rules again mine are right here in front of me. The golden exception is cities of death using the sniper alley mission type and I quote from shield of Baal supplemental cod rules for sniper alley:

"Units and weapons on both side with the sniper special rule have the rending special rule." which would be why everyone dumped their sniper rifle units on eBay after 7th edition came out or shelved them permanently because now they couldn't rend tanks on 6's which is about all snipers were good for anyway beyond kemping bush and occasionally killing something without a 3+ armor save.

Snipers have pseudo rending. Look after the sentence where it tells you that they always wound on a 4+.

"In addition, any To Wound roll of 6 is resolved at AP 2."

They did however, lose real rending to get the extra D3 against vehicles, just like Roknar stated.

Snipers still get AP2 on 6s to wound. Plus auto wounding on 4+ makes them a threat to MCs, but not to GCs. However, if you get the Lucky 6 against a GC, it can ruin their day

Agreed. Don't expect snipers to kill enemy HQ's.

Generally a sniper rifle is better than an equivalent bolter/lasgun/kroot rifle/pulse rifle at more than rapid fire range (because rending-ish) and if you get precision shots treat it as a welcome bonus, not something you're expecting/trying for. Theyre far from devastating but you generally only pay a point or two for the privelege and they're definitely worth that.

Their ability to wound big monsters on a 4+ is also good. Yes, all right, gargantuans need a 6 - but then small arms couldn't wound them anyway, and that 6 still goes through armour, so who cares?

Also, try to assign precision shots to people without look out sir. Heavy weapons and special weapons are prime targets.

A squad of 5 Snipers in a Space Marine army has almost always done me well, because I infiltrate them into cover (usually somewhere high up), and hardly anyone makes them a target priority, so they tend to just sit there unmolested and pot-shot all game long.

My Deathmarks usually make their points back.

locarno24 wrote:
Also, try to assign precision shots to people without look out sir. Heavy weapons and special weapons are prime targets.

This. With all the rolls you have to make to get a kill, avoid as many as you can.
If the range of a sniper rifle means you're denying area from certain types of model, they'll have more impact then just killing.
Usually, snipers are scouts or similar, too, and have roles other than just taking pot-shots.

Your expectations are all wrong if you want decent damage output from snipers...

As mentioned they excel at camping on an objective and taking pot shots. Use the precision shots as a bonus to target spec/heavy weapons rather than characters.

They have value, in the bigger picture of playing the mission rather than pure damage output.

D


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your expectations are all wrong if you want decent damage output from snipers...

As mentioned they excel at camping on an objective and taking pot shots. Use the precision shots as a bonus to target spec/heavy weapons rather than characters.

They have value, in the bigger picture of playing the mission rather than pure damage output.

D

I don't use Snipers to kill characters in units, I use them to kill the Special Weapon/Heavy Weapon guys, who cannot LOS the wounds.

Using them in a SWS in a guard army has served me well as an obs unit, but only in higher point games and I would generally avoid them in anything under 1500pt.

Sniper drones are the most-efficient MC killers in the Tau codex!

A full squad of Skitarii Dragoons with radium jezzails will take 2 wounds off a Wraithknight on average BTW, but that is part of the peculiarities of radium weapons.

20 Kroot snipers will, with no marker lights, do 1/2 x 1/6 x 2/3 = 1/18 x 20 = about 1 wound to a Wraithknight, which is infinitely more than any small arms will do.

Ratlings are 30pts for a basic squad of 3; I usually field 5.
I also have 5 Scout sniper and a SWS of snipers.

Yes, Snipers are not the supa-killaz they ought to be, but:
-they got 36'' range.
-SWS and scouts are troops, so Obsec
-Wounds on 4+, so MC and other high T targets get hurt.
-With Guard, throw in that Ignore cover order for some more reliable wounds (at least no cover rolls..)
-Just looks cool; Apart from me and a single Tau player, no one plays snipers; so it is also a 'oh nice models!' feeling

I'm a fan; obsec with +1 to cover save, 36" range and rending on 6's? with BS/WS/T/S 4, they are a bargain, create a decent threat bubble and are often overlooked allowing them to hold objectives until the end of the game. I'm mostly sad my BA scouts are still BS/WS 3, but really I think they are a very points efficient obsec unit that can put wounds on MC and IG alike.

Yes. Yes they are.

 jasper76 wrote:
A squad of 5 Snipers in a Space Marine army has almost always done me well, because I infiltrate them into cover (usually somewhere high up), and hardly anyone makes them a target priority, so they tend to just sit there unmolested and pot-shot all game long.

This often works pretty well. Snipers have a long range so you can deploy them far away from all the action without having to worry about anyone coming to bother them. These scouts almost guarantee Linebreaker if you just don't forget about them.

I a space wolf player just played a game vs nids and my 6 man scout squad armed with camo cloaks and sniper rifles was my MVP squad by far. they put 3 wounds on his warlord turn 1, took down a locator turn 2, took out 3 genestealers turn 3 and put 2 wounds on another MC turn 4

SM Scouts in Closks with Snipers are decent objective holders w/ Infiltrate and Cover. To get any real shooting out of them. I'd take em in a squad of 10.

I also played in a tournament in which the tables I was playing on didn't have 4+ cover. The scouts died without doing much pretty much every game, but then they were only 70 points.

Obviously (talking IG snipers here, or Kroot), you're not going to get much out of a 2- or 1-point weapon upgrade unless you use them in bulk.

Do the math and see how they compare to lasguns or kroot rifles. (HINT: generally they are superior outside of 12" range.)

It's not meant to be a WOWZERS! heavy weapon that one-shots things left and right.

Just like actual sniper rifles, which are not the deathwands of video games or movis.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The snipers in a game at the scale of 40K (which isa minute or so) are not taking careful aim, lining up the perfect shot.