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Basically the title. During the HH the traitor legions had both land speeders and drop pods. When did they trade them all in on the way to chaos devotion?

There's no real modern fluff explanation. The original thing with Land Speeders way back in 90's fluff was that it was produced after the Heresy, but these days that's not true anymore.

IIRC the 2nd edition codex chaos claimed that landspeeder technology is very difficult to fabricate and maintain, so they slowly fell into disuse among the traitor legions.

Don't the Chaos Space Marines have dread-claws, They are just pre-heresy drop pods

Not quite, they would have originally had both. Dreadclaws turned out to be all evil , so the loyalists stopped using them.

I would say that ownership of drop pods and speeders (and jetbikes) would have been gradually phased out from the traitor legions. Drop pods are very hard to get back if you lose a battle, and anti grav is hard to maintain. You would be limited by the skills of the traitor mechanicum you have. It doesn't make much sense that they can't make drop pods, but dreadclaws are in theory better so its no big loss to the legions.

It makes very little sense for the modern traitors(crimson slaughter, astral claws etc) to lose all their gear, But what you gonna do.

Its just GW being lazy/ not wanting chaos to upstage the loyalists. If they were smart they'd reintroduce them to the next chaos codex so people would be forced to buy the loyalist option with a separate upgrade sprue.

Chaos do have drop pods from FW and in the fluff. Land speeders I don't know.

Maybe think about editing the thread title, if you can.


Don't let anyone tell you they ever lost them or gave them up. The. Don't let anyone tell you that they "should" use them either. It makes every amount of sense that they might have access to that kind of technology and never use it.

The most militarized, hierarchical legions like the iron warriors and word bearers are still avaricious jerks. If you were a chaos squad commander, you would probably end up not choosing to put any of your guys in land speeders or asking any other squads to help you by piloting land speeders. You can tell, at any rate, that most commanders don't.

 Spartan089 wrote:
Its just GW being lazy/ not wanting chaos to upstage the loyalists. If they were smart they'd reintroduce them to the next chaos codex so people would be forced to buy the loyalist option with a separate upgrade sprue.

This post is hilarious in light of how much complaining the internet has devoted to CSM being nothing more than 'spikey' loyalist marines.

...well...they were space marines...and now they have spikes.

Not entirely undeserved

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Spartan089 wrote:
Its just GW being lazy/ not wanting chaos to upstage the loyalists. If they were smart they'd reintroduce them to the next chaos codex so people would be forced to buy the loyalist option with a separate upgrade sprue.

This post is hilarious in light of how much complaining the internet has devoted to CSM being nothing more than 'spikey' loyalist marines.

For real, if anything I'm hoping GW leaves spikified versions of SM stuff out of the new CSM codex. I've been loving the Dinobots and Hellturkeys. It makes CSM feel more distinct from loyalists. Instead of a Marine or LR with spikes thrown on, we're finally getting unique units.

Maybe instead of drop pods, CSM could get some warp-based technology to transport troops.

Some sort of 'Daemon turned Transport' would be a nice addition, I also like the 'merging of technology and daemon' theme that have gone into the newer models.

As said, they still have their Pods, just not in the basic Codex.

Also as mentioned, the 2nd Ed code explained that antigrav technology was too fragile and fickle to maintain. However, and this goes for everyone who wants modern loyalist marine equipment for chaos, the codex said you could use equipment and options from Codex Ultramarines with a +50% cost to represent how rare it was. So you could field a Chaos Landspeeder.

In modern terms, that would be like creating a formation that allowed options from Codex Space Marines plus the Chaos Wargear list or something.

I'm surprised they didn't just bind a daemon to a landspeeder they seem to to shoehorn them into every other machine

JinxDragon wrote:
Some sort of 'Daemon turned Transport' would be a nice addition, I also like the 'merging of technology and daemon' theme that have gone into the newer models.

Lol, you can get in first there, sarg.

 Silverthorne wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
Some sort of 'Daemon turned Transport' would be a nice addition, I also like the 'merging of technology and daemon' theme that have gone into the newer models.

Lol, you can get in first there, sarg.

Yea, a transport with mandatory daemonic possession? gak better be an assault vehicle for that kind of risk.

i think its more or less a balance thing fig wise..chaos lost all the nifty vehicle options in place of demon engines like defilers and crap...got to offer some differences between loyalists and chaos..

Everyone knows that Chaos Space Marines have to exchange their Land Speeders and Drop Pods for bell bottom greaves and horned helmets when they go traitor.

"Dude, Horus just croaked. What now?"
Abaddon re-tied his topknot. He totally had an idea. "I totally have an idea," he said. The Traitor Legions looked on expectantly. "Here's what we do. We run away."
Many helmed heads nodded. This seemed a wise course of action.
"Good idea," said Erebus.
'Hush." Abaddon frowned at the interruption. "But I think we should leave behind our jetbikes, Dreadclaws, Whirlwinds, Landspeeders - pretty much all anti-grav technology, really - as well as our bikes, attack bikes, and pretty much anything else we've used so far."
Fewer helms nodded this time. "Dude," said Lucius the Eternal, "we might need all that stuff. Some of that stuff is rad."
"Nah, I've made up my mind. Let's just go."
"But..."
"Let's. Just. Go." Abaddon waved the Talon of Horus. Its scythe-blade fingers made clickety-click sounds.
"Okay, let's just go," agreed Lucius.
Kharn wasn't so easily placated. "What about Cyclone Launchers? Because I saw those in Horus Heresy: Collected Visions, so we must be using th--"
"I feel like I'm talking to myself, here." Abaddon pointed a claw at the World Eater. It poked Kharn in the eye.
"Ow, Jesus, man. Okay, okay. We'll go."
"Yeah, that's what I thought."
Abaddon pimp-walked from the room, strutting like he owned the place.
"Hey, what about this conversion beamer?" asked Typhus. "Couldn't we use these in Rogue Trader? These are awesome. They go, like, FWOOOOOSH."
"Leave it!" Abaddon's voice called from the other room. Typhus put it down, grumbling.
Fabius Bile sort of shrugged. "So, uh, can I come with you guys? Because I was checking the passenger lists, and none of the Legions are taking their Apothecaries. I mean... don't you need us?"
Lucius patted his brother on the shoulder. "It's okay, man. We'll allude to the Apothecaries in the background text. I mean, you won't get to ever do anything, but you'll sort of be there in the fluff, y'know? A bit? Maybe?"
"Balls to this. I'm leaving the Legion. I'll make my own rules."
Kharn snorted. "Your rules will be lame for competitive play. Just watch. And people will call you Fabulous Bill."
The Traitors walked from the chamber, out to the landing pad. It was deserted.
"Uh, Abbs?"
Abaddon turned to Ahriman. "S'up?"
"Um." The Thousand Son gestured to the empty landing pad. "Where are all our gunships?"
Abaddon ignored him. "Weren't you red a minute ago?"
"We're blue now. It's... it's this whole... thing. Look, seriously, where are our Thunderhawks?"
"Oh, right. Them." Abaddon toyed with his topknot, swishing it back and forth, like a kitten with a fluffy toy. "We won't need those. We can run everywhere and stuff. Or push Rhinos out of hangers and ride them through the atmosphere. It'll be cool."
The Traitors shared a glance. This wasn't going well. Abaddon noticed their hesitation, and sought to calm them. "Relaaaaax. I'll invent new stuff. Like... spider robots with daemons in, and they have claws and stuff. They'll defile things. Maybe they can be called Defilotrons. It'll be sweet. And they'll have a gun on their chests, and tiny little heads. What? Why are you looking at me like that? You just wait. We'll rock this place all to hell."

Welshhoppo: have an exalt!

I'm not sure there's a really clear, plausible fluff explanation. Gameplay wise, they needed some way to balance all the cool demon stuff CSM gets, so they held back some toys for the loyalists, much the same way DA, BA, and SW don't get all the same toys as ultras.

In world... damned if I know. the real question isn't stuff that in fluff is rare and/or high maintenance like the land speeder, but aggressively low tech like the Attack Bike.

 Polonius wrote:
Welshhoppo: have an exalt!

I'm not sure there's a really clear, plausible fluff explanation. Gameplay wise, they needed some way to balance all the cool demon stuff CSM gets, so they held back some toys for the loyalists, much the same way DA, BA, and SW don't get all the same toys as ultras.

In world... damned if I know. the real question isn't stuff that in fluff is rare and/or high maintenance like the land speeder, but aggressively low tech like the Attack Bike.

Can't take all the credit, I stole it from 1d4 Chan.

But there is no legit reason why they don't. Due to the age of the legions, they should have more tech, especially seeing how they gain a lot of fallen marines too.

The land speeders at least were because anti grav is difficult to maintain and resources for that are scarce in the eye. As for drop pods, chaos has the dreadclaw, GW just didn't put it in the codex for some odd reason

Did anyone post, "Dude, wheres my Land speeder?" from 1d4chan?