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I was just wondering about how they do it. I would assume that they do not have access to all of the equipment that they used to, and some war bands I would assume would make the process more painful. Where do they recruit from?

In terms of 'genuine' Marines, some are still alive from the time of the Heresy, either due to Chaos extending their lifespans, or the time altering effects of spending time in the Warp. Others are recent defectors from formerly loyal chapters who either create a new Chaos Marine force, or join up with existing Legions.

Newly created marines include captured slaves who are forcibly recruited via surgery and indoctrination, mainly children. Others are children of civillian populations in the Eye of Terror who join willingly, knowing no other life. Lastly, some are vat-grown, cloned, or use female slaves as disposable, living incubators via the power of Chaos.

All newly recruited Marines still require gene-seed though, and often this is stolen from loyal Marines (either from caches, or corpses) as their own is too damaged or mutated.

The Night Lords and Alpha Legion, being factions that do not reside near Warpspace, are likely to have very few, if any Marines left from the time of the Heresy. As a result, they're mainly, if not entirely, made of 'new' recruits.

Hierophant wrote:
In terms of 'genuine' Marines, some are still alive from the time of the Heresy, either due to Chaos extending their lifespans, or the time altering effects of spending time in the Warp. Others are recent defectors from formerly loyal chapters who either create a new Chaos Marine force, or join up with existing Legions.

Newly created marines include captured slaves who are forcibly recruited via surgery and indoctrination, mainly children. Others are children of civillian populations in the Eye of Terror who join willingly, knowing no other life. Lastly, some are vat-grown, cloned, or use female slaves as disposable, living incubators via the power of Chaos.

All newly recruited Marines still require gene-seed though, and often this is stolen from loyal Marines (either from caches, or corpses) as their own is too damaged or mutated.

The Night Lords and Alpha Legion, being factions that do not reside near Warpspace, are likely to have very few, if any Marines left from the time of the Heresy. As a result, they're mainly, if not entirely, made of 'new' recruits.

So would the alpha legion and night lords have pure gene seed that they could use for these recruits, and if I recall one of the alpha legion primarchs is alive. Thanks for the feedback as well!

Also - one of the main reasons Fabius Bile is still alive and successful is that he's apparently capable of manufacturing gene-seed for the legions, or at least culling pure enough gene-seed from the dead that would otherwise be too mutated to use.

locarno24 wrote:
Also - one of the main reasons Fabius Bile is still alive and successful is that he's apparently capable of manufacturing gene-seed for the legions, or at least culling pure enough gene-seed from the dead that would otherwise be too mutated to use.

Thanks for adding that always good to have more info!

The status of the Alpha Legion Primarch/s is up for debate. There's no solid information on either (if there even were two) alive, or dead.

As for their gene seed - yes, it is likely pure, same with the Night Lords. The Alpha Legion raises Chaos cults where they can, but don't have many delaings with demons or the warp, apart from the occasional individual, or when it benefits them. The Night Lords are the same, but don't even bother with the cults. They're more just like amoral bandits than anything else, and Chaos is just another weapon.

As a result, neither they or their gene-seed is as degraded or mutated as that of the other Traitor Legions.

The status of the Thousand Sons is an exception. As far as I remember (which could be innacurrate) the Rubric of Ahriman cursed not only the living marines, but also the geneseed of the survivors. Any attempt to create a new, pure Thousand Sons Marine would cause them to suffer the same fate. It also had the side-effect of making the survivors exceptionally long lived, so the Thousand Sons cannot bolster their ranks, but also have the largest contingent of original Marines too.

They do have a method of replacing/restoring/recreating Rubric Marines though, the method of which is unknown. And in theory, a Chaos Marine from another gene-strain could defect to them I guess. Magnus is far more fatherly towards his Marines than other Primarchs though, so whether he would accept new Marines that didn't have his DNA is another question.

For those wondering about age, Graham McNeill posted on Twitter SMs are immortal age-wise from a fluff perspective.

As far as harvesting gene-seed, the Alpha Legion have done some mercenary work for the Black Legion on that, having liberated the entire Crimson Consuls' gene-seed storage.

The old Index Astartes article on the Alpha Legion had mutated Alpha Legionnaires. Fluff also points to at least a few warbands have quite a few mutations. However, some, like the ones on Vraks, were capable of passing themselves off as normal SMs. I believe it's pretty much the same with the Night Lords.

Then you of course have the Daemonculaba.

Hierophant wrote:


The status of the Thousand Sons is an exception. As far as I remember (which could be innacurrate) the Rubric of Ahriman cursed not only the living marines, but also the geneseed of the survivors. Any attempt to create a new, pure Thousand Sons Marine would cause them to suffer the same fate. It also had the side-effect of making the survivors exceptionally long lived, so the Thousand Sons cannot bolster their ranks, but also have the largest contingent of original Marines too.

They do have a method of replacing/restoring/recreating Rubric Marines though, the method of which is unknown. And in theory, a Chaos Marine from another gene-strain could defect to them I guess. Magnus is far more fatherly towards his Marines than other Primarchs though, so whether he would accept new Marines that didn't have his DNA is another question.

Do you have a source on that? Never heard of that - there were very few left after Russ mauled them.

That's all post-Russ.

Ahriman cast the Rubric to prevent further mutation in the ranks, and it not only turned the majority of Marines into barely sentient ghosts sealed in their armor, it cursed the gene-seed too, preventing them from creating new Marines, as they'd simply share the same fate.

In theory, they could just recruit from another Legion or gene-seed, but as far as I know they don't, because Magnus treats his Marines like his children. Without his gene-seed, you aren't a Thousand Sons Marine. So all the Marines still flesh date back to the Horus Heresy.

From a strictly numbers perspective, all the Rubric Marines should be now dead, as the number recorded destroyed over the millennia equals or exceeds the number created, so it's theorised they are reconstituted somehow by trapping their spirits in a new suit of power armour.

No sources for any of this, just memory, which could be wrong.

Space Marines still regularly go renegade, either on an individual level (like that Raven Guard guy in Honsou's warband) or entire chapters at once (Abyssal Crusade).

They steal gene-seed, like the Iron Warriors did on Hydra Cordatus

There's also cloning.

 ChazSexington wrote:
F
The old Index Astartes article on the Alpha Legion had mutated Alpha Legionnaires. Fluff also points to at least a few warbands have quite a few mutations. However, some, like the ones on Vraks, were capable of passing themselves off as normal SMs. I believe it's pretty much the same with the Night Lords.

There are quit a few of loyal space marines with mutations as well, and thanks everyone for there post! I really enjoy reading about these different space marines. Is Chaos gene implanting more dangerous than space marines and how much more dangerous?

 DeLong wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
F
The old Index Astartes article on the Alpha Legion had mutated Alpha Legionnaires. Fluff also points to at least a few warbands have quite a few mutations. However, some, like the ones on Vraks, were capable of passing themselves off as normal SMs. I believe it's pretty much the same with the Night Lords.

There are quit a few of loyal space marines with mutations as well, and thanks everyone for there post! I really enjoy reading about these different space marines. Is Chaos gene implanting more dangerous than space marines and how much more dangerous?

We simply don't know if it's more dangerous :(

Stealing geneseed could simply be because it is valuable rather than required.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Stealing geneseed could simply be because it is valuable rather than required.

Nah, seeing what the Warp can do even to living people - not to mind their offspring - stealing Loyalist geneseed is probably quite essential for any Warp-faring warband that cares to create their own marines. Their own geneseed could well be as twisted as that marine that carries it, you know, the guy with three tentacles instead of a left arm and tiny wings on his right big toe.

Ofc, they'd still steal geneseed off Loyalists just to humiliate them. Great religious significance in that - it's the future of the Chapter after all. And to boot you've just castrated a dead marine.

For the chaos space marines in the warp, they recruit by either taking in renegade astartes, implanting geneseed into slaves, or if their geneseed is too corrupted/mutated they might recruit by stealing geneseed from loyalist astartes and implanting it in their recruits, for those that reside outside the Eye of Terror they recruit like their loyalist counterparts, finding suitable candidates and implanting geneseed into them. Depends on the chapter/legion really.

Spetulhu wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Stealing geneseed could simply be because it is valuable rather than required.

Nah, seeing what the Warp can do even to living people - not to mind their offspring - stealing Loyalist geneseed is probably quite essential for any Warp-faring warband that cares to create their own marines. Their own geneseed could well be as twisted as that marine that carries it, you know, the guy with three tentacles instead of a left arm and tiny wings on his right big toe.

Ofc, they'd still steal geneseed off Loyalists just to humiliate them. Great religious significance in that - it's the future of the Chapter after all. And to boot you've just castrated a dead marine.

But we don't know if it makes the geneseed weaker - look at Possessed. If you grab some Possessed geneseed, maybe you can make a new Possessed?

I'm pretty sure it is stated a few times in the fluff that traitor geneseed is pretty badly degraded.

That said, perhaps chaos tainted geneseed can create extra chaosy chaos space marines, as you suggest Chaz.

nareik wrote:
I'm pretty sure it is stated a few times in the fluff that traitor geneseed is pretty badly degraded.

That said, perhaps chaos tainted geneseed can create extra chaosy chaos space marines, as you suggest Chaz.

The Traitor Legions have all taken massive losses, so they have to be replaced at a reasonable rate.

 ChazSexington wrote:
The Traitor Legions have all taken massive losses, so they have to be replaced at a reasonable rate.

Stealing geneseed off dead loyalists is a pretty good way of getting more then. Humiliate your foe and make his offspring serve you!

We have a lot of good replies here. There are a few novels that cover space marine selection and pre selection to become a space marine and how things are done, but I don't think there is a huge amount of knowledge on how all the chaos space marines do things or why they do what they do. If there is please provided an example and i am liking the debate so far. My other question still stands do war bands out side of the eye of terror still use there own gene seed? Iron warriors seems to do a half and half gene seed seeing as one warp smith is called a half blood and he is half imperial fist (ironically) half iron warriors gene seed.

 DeLong wrote:
We have a lot of good replies here. There are a few novels that cover space marine selection and pre selection to become a space marine and how things are done, but I don't think there is a huge amount of knowledge on how all the chaos space marines do things or why they do what they do. If there is please provided an example and i am liking the debate so far. My other question still stands do war bands out side of the eye of terror still use there own gene seed? Iron warriors seems to do a half and half gene seed seeing as one warp smith is called a half blood and he is half imperial fist (ironically) half iron warriors gene seed.

That's Honsou.

We really don't know. CSMs don't have Apothecaries in the rules, and have about everything else the Loyalists have.

 ChazSexington wrote:

nareik wrote:
I'm pretty sure it is stated a few times in the fluff that traitor geneseed is pretty badly degraded.

That said, perhaps chaos tainted geneseed can create extra chaosy chaos space marines, as you suggest Chaz.

The Traitor Legions have all taken massive losses, so they have to be replaced at a reasonable rate.

Traitor legionnaires have the advantage that mutation can heal the worst injuries (source: Black Legion supplement).

They can also create extra chaos marines using stolen genetic material.

nareik wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:

nareik wrote:
I'm pretty sure it is stated a few times in the fluff that traitor geneseed is pretty badly degraded.

That said, perhaps chaos tainted geneseed can create extra chaosy chaos space marines, as you suggest Chaz.

The Traitor Legions have all taken massive losses, so they have to be replaced at a reasonable rate.

Traitor legionnaires have the advantage that mutation can heal the worst injuries (source: Black Legion supplement).

They can also create extra chaos marines using stolen genetic material.

Space Marines in general can do that, but even considering a higher regeneration, the original Legions have lost tens of thousands. They first purged their own ranks, then fought a protracted campaign and siege at Terra, then the Scourging, then lost more fighting each other in the EoT, then continued the Long War. They must have needed to create a lot of new SMs.

In one of the ombibus, i believe the iron warrior one..all the chaos warbands meet on some planet every once in awhile and essentially battle for other lord's troops and equipment..kind of like raceing for pinks with chain swords lol

I still consider ADB's Night Lords trilogy the best source for non-childish fluff on how traitor legions function. The Night Lords geneseed is still relatively pure, and they also raid loyalist chapters to steal geneseed. Based on the novels some warbands still have apothecaries and the equipment to make new marines. By the end of the novels Other warbands lacking the facilities rely on newly turned renegades to bolster their ranks, or the services of Fabius Bile and his ilk to create new marines (as Bile is implied to have unlocked the forbidden secrets of making geneseed from scratch).

 DeLong wrote:
I was just wondering about how they do it. I would assume that they do not have access to all of the equipment that they used to, and some war bands I would assume would make the process more painful.

If you try to join the word bearers they make you eat a book.

I can't talk in detail about the death guard or the emperor's children initiation processes on this forum.

If I remember correctly, it is mentioned that the Thousand Sons have a habit of taking the most promising psykers from the various cults they support throughout the Imperium, presumably with the goal of turning them into new sorcerers. As for the Rubric Marines, I think there was mention of a ritual to essentially summon those lost in battle back into new bodies. That, and the fact Rubrics are immortal even by SM standards, means that they don't need to recruit replacements.

Daemonculaba..... sorry.

So, if Chaos steals loyalist geneseeds, do they take any they can get their hands on or only the more vanilla ones? If they got their hands on a BA or BA-successor chapter geneseed, would that Chaos marine potentially succumb to the Black Rage?

 DeLong wrote:
I was just wondering about how they do it. I would assume that they do not have access to all of the equipment that they used to, and some war bands I would assume would make the process more painful. Where do they recruit from?

They usually advertise on the notice board down at Tesco's. I used to get recruitment flyers in my mailbox too, but they must be low on advertising funds because that stopped a few years ago.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 DeLong wrote:
I was just wondering about how they do it. I would assume that they do not have access to all of the equipment that they used to, and some war bands I would assume would make the process more painful. Where do they recruit from?

They usually advertise on the notice board down at Tesco's. I used to get recruitment flyers in my mailbox too, but they must be low on advertising funds because that stopped a few years ago.

I got a few this whole topic was about where those flyers went.

 Flanker wrote:
So, if Chaos steals loyalist geneseeds, do they take any they can get their hands on or only the more vanilla ones? If they got their hands on a BA or BA-successor chapter geneseed, would that Chaos marine potentially succumb to the Black Rage?

I would presume so, unless a pact was made.