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I'm just curious why they chose "Old Gothic" as the official language of the Imperium. Is there any kind of significance to it? Does any book explain why?

Thanks in advance

SG

The official language of the Imperium is actually High Gothic, however several million dialects collectively referred to as Low Gothic are spoken by the vast majority of Imperial citizens.

Thank you for the correction. Any idea why?

SG

It's High Gothic. In the background it's supposedly the most important tongue used during the Dark Age of Technology, and the Emperor spoke it when he emerged to reunite humanity. All old tech manuals the Adeptus Mechanicus owns are written in it.

As for the writing it's supposed to make you see it as Latin in Rome and a long time after the fall. Church Latin was used (and is still used by Catholics?) just because is was the language most Christians had their holy book in. It was the language used in better mightier times so anyone who wanted to be somebody had better know at least some of it or have aides who do.

Think of it like Latin of the Medieval era, which was the language of the Church. The plebs speak whatever their local national language is, the Church wrote everything in Latin, and held Mass in the same language.

High Gothic is an ancient, dead language. Think of it like Latin in the Middle Ages. It is the language of ancient documents, religious ceremonies and diplomatic courtesies, but apart from high-ranked officials and scholars no one speaks or understands it.

Low Gothic is the common language of the Imperium, but information about it is much more vague. Some sources have it as a single language subdivided into many dialects (like medieval German irl for example). While in other sources every world has its own distinct language and Low Gothic is a common language to allow people from different places to communicate with each other (compare French in the middle ages or English in the 21st century).

Spetulhu wrote:
It's High Gothic. In the background it's supposedly the most important tongue used during the Dark Age of Technology, and the Emperor spoke it when he emerged to reunite humanity. All old tech manuals the Adeptus Mechanicus owns are written in it.

As for the writing it's supposed to make you see it as Latin in Rome and a long time after the fall. Church Latin was used (and is still used by Catholics?) just because is was the language most Christians had their holy book in. It was the language used in better mightier times so anyone who wanted to be somebody had better know at least some of it or have aides who do.

Vernacular mass was introduced in 1965, and Bibles have been available in vernacular way before that, think some as far back as 800 AD, where the translators were canonised

Afaik, High Gothic is actually not Roman or Church Latin; it's better described as GW Latin due to their rather dubious Latin conjugations.

Good to know, Chaz. I personally care little for sermons but it's good to know even Catholics can now get them in their own languages. :-)

I didn't say High Gothic IS Latin, more that GW used some quick pig Latin to give High Gothic a feeling of being something like that old language people saw as THE sign of education long after the fall of Rome.

As everyone has said, High Gothic is mostly used in ceremonies and on certain documents, most Imperial Citizens speak Low Gothic, which from what I can tell is the common language

It's a fair assumption that everyone who graduates from the Schola Progenium is fluent in High Gothic, the Schola being run by the Ecclesiarchy and it being the Official Language of the Ecclesiarchy - especially since most of the graduates go to the Adeptus Terra, where official documents are also recorded in High Gothic.

 Psienesis wrote:
Think of it like Latin of the Medieval era, which was the language of the Church. The plebs speak whatever their local national language is, the Church wrote everything in Latin, and held Mass in the same language.

Heh, it's ironic that in actual Roman times, it was the plebeians who spoke Latin, and the cultured people all spoke Greek. It seems as though, historically, aristocracy has had a tendency towards esoteric language, I suppose it's a good way to keep a closed shop.

The interesting thing is that traditionally, 'Gothic' means that something is decidedly un-Romanesque. Yet, for whatever reason, it appears that in the 40k universe, low/high-Gothic is far more similar to Latin than it is to German (or any other true Gothic languages).

ServiceGames wrote:
Thank you for the correction. Any idea why?

Its to ensure standardization. The same reason we give animals Latin scientific names. High Gothic likely has the characteristics of a dead language which make it ideal for official transcripts. No matter where you go in the Imperium, regardless of the local language, someone will be able to read and speak High Gothic.

 youidiotkid wrote:
The interesting thing is that traditionally, 'Gothic' means that something is decidedly un-Romanesque. Yet, for whatever reason, it appears that in the 40k universe, low/high-Gothic is far more similar to Latin than it is to German (or any other true Gothic languages).

It is because the language of Gothic, High or Low, is entirely incomprehensible to us in the 21st century, so the writers of Black Library "translate" it into its closest approximation... which becomes pseudo-Latin. It's a conceit and a bit of an in-joke from GW, but that's how they explained it, like, twenty-five years ago.

^That is the official line. I've heard that in some older fluff sources Gothic is described as some sort of evolution of Indo-Chinese languages. Personally, I dont buy into that because if you look at the minis GW has produced all the text and inscriptions on them are written using stylized english script and the word structures resemble a bastardized hybrid of Latin and German.

chaos0xomega wrote:^That is the official line. I've heard that in some older fluff sources Gothic is described as some sort of evolution of Indo-Chinese languages. Personally, I dont buy into that because if you look at the minis GW has produced all the text and inscriptions on them are written using stylized english script and the word structures resemble a bastardized hybrid of Latin and German.

Yeah, it does not make sense. In 40.000 years there won't be something like 'an evolution of Indo-Chinese languages'. Rather there will be an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of an evolution of Indo-Chinese languages. Hell, 40.000 years ago Proto Indo-European languages were not even around yet. In 40.000 years, human language will have lost even the faintest connection to present day languages.

Psienesis wrote:

 youidiotkid wrote:
The interesting thing is that traditionally, 'Gothic' means that something is decidedly un-Romanesque. Yet, for whatever reason, it appears that in the 40k universe, low/high-Gothic is far more similar to Latin than it is to German (or any other true Gothic languages).

It is because the language of Gothic, High or Low, is entirely incomprehensible to us in the 21st century, so the writers of Black Library "translate" it into its closest approximation... which becomes pseudo-Latin. It's a conceit and a bit of an in-joke from GW, but that's how they explained it, like, twenty-five years ago.

The name 'Gothic' still does not make sense to me however. Gothic is the name of an extinct East Germanic language, so why give it this name?

It's also the name of a sector of space.

It also describes the Imperium's base architectural style.

Its called Gothic because it sounds cool. Also, again, all the in-universe terminology that we know and love is 'translated' for us by Black Library so that we can understand terminology in what is an undoubtedly alien language to us, ergo within the 40k setting Gothic isn't actually referred to as Gothic but as something else entirely.

 youidiotkid wrote:
The interesting thing is that traditionally, 'Gothic' means that something is decidedly un-Romanesque. Yet, for whatever reason, it appears that in the 40k universe, low/high-Gothic is far more similar to Latin than it is to German (or any other true Gothic languages).

The image they're going for is a society which is living in the shadows of a much more powerful older civilisation, of whom they're the degraded descendants. The obvious* real-world example of this is dark ages and medieval western Europe, wattle-and-daub huts squatting amongst the ruins of the Roman Empire, attributing the roads, buildings and monuments to a race of giants. Hence, clerks and functionaries in monk-like robes and the "learned" language being (bad) Latin.

"Gothic", because the look and tone are quite heavily inspired by Gothic literature and architecture. "The setting of the Gothic Novel is a character in itself. The plot is usually set in a castle, an abbey, a monastery, or some other, usually religious edifice, and it is acknowledged that this building has secrets of its own. It is this gloomy and frightening scenery, which sets the scene for what the audience should expect. " (Wikipedia)

The term "Gothic" in relation to architecture, was originally an insult, as it was quite different to the previous classical-inspired buildings; just as the Goths destroyed Rome, so too was this "Gothic" style threatening the classical style of architecture.

*Not true, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.