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Here, have an exalt.
Yo're right. As a marine player I watched the threads that popped up last month, either the one of the "useless" 3+ and the "Make the Rhino AV14/14/14 HP8" .
In an ideal world everyone can play everything without having a 90/10 percentage against him, but sadly GW decided otherwise.
I respect your decision to continue playing Guard and send my kudos for your perseverance, and I understand your bitterness (as an MTG player I wanted to play not-top-dog decks, and I was regularly roflstomped by my friends' GP Top8 netdeck.
Ultimately I stopped playing almost altogether (still keep a couple cheap decks to play with my GF).

Hold on, better times will surely be ahead. Meanwhile you can try to talk to your gaming club, to "nerf" your opponents' lists or give you some sort of balancing advantage (like 100 points in 1850 games or so). Or maybe you can try to promote 2v2 scenarios, as to get your weakness balanced with some OPness from other factions.

I'm sure you already thought to do these things, but I wanted to help you enjoy this beautiful hobby.

Keep the honor of the Imperial Guard high! For the Emperor and for Mankind!

the_scotsman wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:

 Priest Foxley wrote:
seriously? This sucks. I just got into this, and I fell in love with IG for the same reason. I discounted them because of that whole "commissars that shoot their own side" garbage. If I didn't have to deal with that, I would play them in a heartbeat.

It'll come up in maybe one out of ten games you play, and then it's a 2/3 chance you take a lasgun away. If you're that worried about losing a single guardsman then you made the right choice playing something else. I'd suggest Necrons.

I too am feeling the IG burn. If it's a maelstrom game the best I can hope for is to score at least one or two points and avoid a downtrail. My other army is CSM and even that dex feels playable compared to IG atm.

Take some allied infiltrator units to establish board control while you move your army into position and hammer the opposing line? Take some force multipliers to turn a large blob into a giant Obsec tarpit? Use your 25 point upgrade that grants you 2+ reserve rolls to bring in some deep strikers/out flankers?

To answer the first point: Why should I have to take allies to stand a chance? I chose to play Imperial Guard, not min Guard max drop-pod faux-marines. Who do Necrons need to ally with? Apart from doubling-down on douchebaggery with WWP who are Eldar required to ally with?

The second point: Giant obsec tarpit can be blown through fairly easily by many units these days. The damage a single squad of marine bikers can do to 30-50 guardsmen is disgusting, incidentally the bikers can be obsec themselves and a 50 man squad is laughable to maneuver.

The third point: You need to pass a Ld check on Ld7 to get that ability. You don't just get it for nothing. Hypothetically though, which DS/outflankers would you suggest? The 12ppm scions with T3 4+? Or the scout sentinel with AV10 2HP open topped?

This is all assuming your hand-wavium and overly vague post wasn't the a throwaway troll post it appears to be

the_scotsman wrote:
...A whole lot of smart stuff...

This guy gets it. Stop hating options and freaking use them...

If you just scroll up a wee bit on the first page, you'll see my big list 'o imperial guard force multiplying allies that cost a minimum of a single model or kit.

As for board control infiltrators? I use a Culexus assassin, who is a wonderful wall of "feth you" to any army that wants to make themselves all beefy with psykers and who is seriously easy to hide entirely out of LOS. I supplement him with a minimum squad of ratlings, and I find their 30 points justified purely if I can get someone to waste time on them. I often don't even bother shooting with them, I just sit on an objective marker, they're just there until the rest of my force catches up.


As for tarpitting, I've got two guys in my blob that make them the absolute bomb at that-Inquisitor Coteaz and a regular ordo Xenos, who I take just for the grenades and servo skulls. I've you've never played an IG army with servo skulls, let me tell you that's 9 points you're never going to want to go without again-1D6 scatter is incredible for guard. I've got one buddy who uses a similar tactic minus Coteaz and with a minimum sized Skiitari force, he brings a unit of Sicarian infiltrators to double the enemy melee debuff. Watching a Thunderwolf Deathstar get splattered by his platoon is hilarious.


These are not allies that make it so you're not playing guard, these are allies that make your guard amazing. There's a difference, and the difference is one that leaves you saying "holy gak, I've never seen my guardsmen do THAT before!" Switching off an enemy deathstar's invisibility then flattening them with a Battlecannon that literally can not miss is a sweet, sweet feeling, as is downing a wraithknight with 150 rending lasgun shots, reducing space marines to T2 Jelly in close combat, and knocking tau tanks out of the sky with twin-linked ignores cover Lascannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deep strikers? Id probablt use Tempestus if I really wanted them. 12 ppm is justified if i can have them only scatter D6 onto the objectives. As for the MOF, what do you want for 25 points? If you're that bothered by the ld7 check, go for an ADL with comms relay instead. Your tanks will love having cover to hide behind and an extra bit of drop melta insurance, and you'll get 3+ rerollable reserves. I personally prefer the MOF because I like screwing with my opponents reserves just as much as I like helping my own, but if reliability is your thing here, have yet another option.

I dunno. I've always been surprised how long it can take for a unit to cut free of a tarpit; the Imperial Guard can do tarpits better than almost anyone.

Conscript Platoons with a Priest are incredible. Regular guardsmen are.... so so, I'll admit.

But you can expect to see guard improved. Even now there are things floating around - like the Steel Host - and the Guard can easily be improved by relatively cheap ($ as well as points) bolt-ons - Inquisitors are superb platoon leaders, and priests are fantastic. For that matter, even some marine one-man models (like azrael) are worth their weight in gold.


The trick to success with guard infantry is a mix of blobs and detached squads - no matter how good you are, you can't kill more than one squad with shooting, and guard can form screens that you can only get past by charging them.

Keep fighting on brother.

I play Tzeentch primarily and try to avoid heldrake spam and such and can at least hold my own enough to have a fun game despite not winning too often.

Necrons are very tough, but I have beat them!

I can't wait to see a new guard codex come out because I want to see them played more, they are a fun team to play against.

As has been said, it can take a couple of models to make a difference.
Use tanks, try a Techpriest.
Drop a Ministorum Priest in a front-line unit.
Primaris Psyker in the command Chimera.

Or, it only takes 3 models to get Harlequins as allies.
I sometimes like to see some variation on the table, just as something different.

mathaius90 wrote:Here, have an exalt.
Yo're right. As a marine player I watched the threads that popped up last month, either the one of the "useless" 3+ and the "Make the Rhino AV14/14/14 HP8" .
In an ideal world everyone can play everything without having a 90/10 percentage against him, but sadly GW decided otherwise.
I respect your decision to continue playing Guard and send my kudos for your perseverance, and I understand your bitterness (as an MTG player I wanted to play not-top-dog decks, and I was regularly roflstomped by my friends' GP Top8 netdeck.
Ultimately I stopped playing almost altogether (still keep a couple cheap decks to play with my GF).

Hold on, better times will surely be ahead. Meanwhile you can try to talk to your gaming club, to "nerf" your opponents' lists or give you some sort of balancing advantage (like 100 points in 1850 games or so). Or maybe you can try to promote 2v2 scenarios, as to get your weakness balanced with some OPness from other factions.

I'm sure you already thought to do these things, but I wanted to help you enjoy this beautiful hobby.

Keep the honor of the Imperial Guard high! For the Emperor and for Mankind!

Thanks man if feels good to hear some support from a Marine player.

Voidwraith wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
...A whole lot of smart stuff...

This guy gets it. Stop hating options and freaking use them...

The problem is that this is essentially a derivative of the Oberoni Fallacy



The problem is that you say the inbalance in the codex can be fixed by including allies to cover the blank spots thus meaning that there is no weakness. But this need to include allies is in itself an assertion that there is something really really wrong with the codex.

That aside I am not unwilling to avoid the allies Matrix, although it may not be my favoured choice. I am quite happy to use it and indeed I am already using it with the inclusion of my Vindicaire Assassin and my plans to acquire some other Assassins.
I also have some Chaos marines that I am trying to get build into an allied detachment (Lucius the Eternal, some noise marines, 2 Spawn and 6 Terminators). I have accepted that I need too. However I just can not afford to purchase some of the more needed things such as a Lance of Knights or some Mechanicus.

My point is, though, that it feels wrong. The Vindicaire is good and fits into the army well but having a bunch of Chaos Marines in with my guard just does not feel right. I accept that I need to but it is not what I favour to use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skinnereal wrote:
As has been said, it can take a couple of models to make a difference.
Use tanks, try a Techpriest.
Drop a Ministorum Priest in a front-line unit.
Primaris Psyker in the command Chimera.

Or, it only takes 3 models to get Harlequins as allies.

I have a Techpriest and I use him

Priests... Might have to try this.

super advanced cowfish

Ah yes the Tau. They pretty much stole the AMs thunder, and even THEY are not doing too hot right now.


I totally understand your love of tactics, and your disappointments with your codex ( which lets be honest here) is pretty outdated and overcosted.

Our best player ( and the winner of our local tourney) won by using a completely mechanized list with coteaz, vets, basilisks, and I think a Fellblade. Its not that his units were super good ( they are pretty much just average), but he was really good at setting up firing lanes. I think playing guard gives you a greater appreciation for the tactics of this game that other armies don't have because they have it so rough. ( I am not saying L2P btw, I'm saying I admire the perseverance of the players who have less than optimal codices, and make good use of them anyways).

I actually would be totally for giving guardsman rhinos btw.

I am honestly going to go ahead and say wait for the new codex, becuase there is probaby going to be some formation where you get free chimeras or respawning platoons or something. GW seems to be rolling that way nowadays.

Hang in there bro ( or sis) and keep the faith.

The Emperor protects.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit. Curse you and your stupid link lol. I was trying to look at the dakka post in your sig, when suddenly a skeleton dude appears on my screen.

Sounds great in a meta which

- doesn't seem to DTW ever
- ignores DS units for so long that foot-guard have enough time to reach them
- has no invul or cover on their 'deathstar'
- allows OotF ability to auto-pass
- isn't aware that moving close to a skull removes it

I guess I should change to a softer meta.

Priests... Might have to try this.

I would encourage you to do so. I know you say you haven't the budget to rebuild a new army (believe me I ****ing sympathise).

But guard have the edge that they can take odd one-model characters and it's remarkable how much difference they can make for a few quid and 50 points or so.

Priest - cheap as hell, make the unit fearless and can potentially give them armour save rerolls in assaults. Takes a conscript unit from something that'll be broken and run down in one round of combat to a unit that will fight to the last man - and can often hold up a key unit for two full game turns or more.

Inquisitor - Front Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! isn't broken by any means. A major issue is passing the leadership check. But an Inquisitor with Psyker and Prescience not only makes them LD10 Stubborn but also gives them twin-linked.

Tech-priest - A Guard tank is nice. A guard tank with Power of the Machine Spirit is awesome, because you have cheap sponson heavy weapons you generally can't use because of the big guns on the best leman russ versions.


What are you using in your list at the moment?



Also - as noted, consider the alternate 'flavours' of guard: Death Korps, D-99, Tyrant's Legion and (if the Horus Heresy is an option) Imperialis Militia. You might find one of the guard sub-versions more to your taste.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm rubbing it in you're face or anything, but I would lose all the time with guard in 5 and 6th but now I'm winning against broken lists like smashfether and even 30k ordo reducer. Yeah it's not a win every time army but that's the fun. Bring some flyers and deathstrike and I'm sure you're luck can turn around before the new codex drops!

Good luck from a fellow guardsman!

 tau tse tung wrote:
I hope it doesn't seem like I'm rubbing it in you're face or anything, but I would lose all the time with guard in 5 and 6th but now I'm winning against broken lists like smashfether and even 30k ordo reducer. Yeah it's not a win every time army but that's the fun. Bring some flyers and deathstrike and I'm sure you're luck can turn around before the new codex drops!

Good luck from a fellow guardsman!

Lost with IG in *5th*?

tau tse tung wrote:I hope it doesn't seem like I'm rubbing it in you're face or anything, but I would lose all the time with guard in 5 and 6th but now I'm winning against broken lists like smashfether and even 30k ordo reducer. Yeah it's not a win every time army but that's the fun. Bring some flyers and deathstrike and I'm sure you're luck can turn around before the new codex drops!

Good luck from a fellow guardsman!

Thanks man, want to swap opponents?

locarno24 wrote:
What are you using in your list at the moment?

Tank commander in Battletank with coaxial HS, extra armour, armoured track guards, anti grenade mesh, camo netting, recovery gear and artificer hull
Battletank with coaxial HS, pintle HS, extra armour, armoured track guards, anti grenade mesh, camo netting, recovery gear and artificer hull
Eradicator with coaxial HS, extra armour, armoured track guards, anti grenade mesh, camo netting, recovery gear and artificer hull

Company Command Section
Bolt Pistol
Medic
MoO
MoF

Veterans
HB
Krak Grenades
Forward Sentries

Veterans
HB
Krak Grenades
Forward Sentries

Veterans
HB
Krak Grenades
Forward Sentries
2 Melta

Veterans
HB
Krak Grenades
Forward Sentries
2 Melta

Exterminator with pintle HS and Recovery Gear, possibly camo netting if the points allow it
Exterminator with pintle HS and Recovery Gear, possibly camo netting if the points allow it

Thunderer with camo gear, firebarrels, pintle HS and recovery gear

Deimos pattern Destroyer (not technically IG I know but I am damned if I am paying 40 points more for less BS and only 1/3 of the shots with 1 point worse AP) with camo netting and a pintle mount

this is the basis of my list and I add and remove units when I need them. I have 2 extra HB veteran sections, a Shadowswrd chassis, a Rapier Laser Destroyer, a Lord Commissar, 2 Commissars, a Vindicaire and a few other units.

You don't have to do anything. At all. "Sit there and remain unhappy" is an option-it is in fact option 1, zero change.

Option 2 is to make some changes. Here, let me show you the easiest one.

Take your Primaris Psyker model. You ever use him? 50 points, force staff, divination. Not awful. But not the best.

Now say "you are an ordo Xenos inquisitor psyker."

What changed? Zero dollars were spent. At this point he even costs the same points. What'd he get?


-Stat buffs are nice. He's up to LD10 and stubborn, that's pretty fething sweet. Got a force sword instead of a staff, better WS/BS. Also, any doctrine he wants, that's kind of fun.


-Servo skulls. 9 points for 3 12" bubbles that make anything that scatters roll one less D6. I'll let you figure out what that does for the guard.


-Rad and/or Psychotroke grenades. -1T to the enemy unit charging you, or a great anti assault random effect. Or both. They aren't expensive.

And he gives you access to:


-New special characters. Coteaz is the best in a blob. Skyhammer what? If you like the grim dark meat grinder aspect of ig krazypantsoff is hilarious.


-Rhinos, land raiders, or just discount chimeras. You want em? You got em. Take two.

And you get all that for the low price of...nothing. Zero effort. A google search and a name change for one model.

the_scotsman wrote:
You don't have to do anything. At all. "Sit there and remain unhappy" is an option-it is in fact option 1, zero change.

Option 2 is to make some changes. Here, let me show you the easiest one.

Take your Primaris Psyker model. You ever use him? 50 points, force staff, divination. Not awful. But not the best.

Now say "you are an ordo Xenos inquisitor psyker."

What changed? Zero dollars were spent. At this point he even costs the same points. What'd he get?


-Stat buffs are nice. He's up to LD10 and stubborn, that's pretty fething sweet. Got a force sword instead of a staff, better WS/BS. Also, any doctrine he wants, that's kind of fun.


-Servo skulls. 9 points for 3 12" bubbles that make anything that scatters roll one less D6. I'll let you figure out what that does for the guard.


-Rad and/or Psychotroke grenades. -1T to the enemy unit charging you, or a great anti assault random effect. Or both. They aren't expensive.

And he gives you access to:


-New special characters. Coteaz is the best in a blob. Skyhammer what? If you like the grim dark meat grinder aspect of ig krazypantsoff is hilarious.


-Rhinos, land raiders, or just discount chimeras. You want em? You got em. Take two.

And you get all that for the low price of...nothing. Zero effort. A google search and a name change for one model.

This guy's suggestions are legit.^

the_scotsman wrote:
You don't have to do anything. At all. "Sit there and remain unhappy" is an option-it is in fact option 1, zero change.

Option 2 is to make some changes. Here, let me show you the easiest one.

Take your Primaris Psyker model. You ever use him? 50 points, force staff, divination. Not awful. But not the best.

Now say "you are an ordo Xenos inquisitor psyker."

What changed? Zero dollars were spent. At this point he even costs the same points. What'd he get?


-Stat buffs are nice. He's up to LD10 and stubborn, that's pretty fething sweet. Got a force sword instead of a staff, better WS/BS. Also, any doctrine he wants, that's kind of fun.


-Servo skulls. 9 points for 3 12" bubbles that make anything that scatters roll one less D6. I'll let you figure out what that does for the guard.


-Rad and/or Psychotroke grenades. -1T to the enemy unit charging you, or a great anti assault random effect. Or both. They aren't expensive.

And he gives you access to:


-New special characters. Coteaz is the best in a blob. Skyhammer what? If you like the grim dark meat grinder aspect of ig krazypantsoff is hilarious.


-Rhinos, land raiders, or just discount chimeras. You want em? You got em. Take two.

And you get all that for the low price of...nothing. Zero effort. A google search and a name change for one model.

You sire are a genius. Thank you

Technically stuff like antigrenade mesh and artificer hull are armoured battlegroup only, but if your opponent's okay with it, hey.

I also don't think a regular battletank has the option of a co-axial mount.


Anyway.

My comment: You're taking a lot of toys you don't really need. Imperial guardsmen are.....not exactly specialists, but they're not tough enough or good enough to be generalists. Arm them for one job and if they get caught in the wrong situation....so sorry, lads, but you're always expendable.

The veterans are a good example. A squad of veterans with a heavy bolter is not bad antipersonnel firepower, and dug into cover with forward sentries is hard to kill off.

But for the same reason, you don't want to come out of cover. So those meltaguns are going to be sitting there on the off chance of a tank wandering into range. Which it probably won't unless it's a dreadnought which will charge you and murder them in assaults. Meltaguns are good - but only if you have a way of getting them into range reliably.

Equally, 10 krak grenades don't provide enough close-quarter antitank for me to want to spend points on them.

a few sets of grenades in a blob-ed platoon, maybe. But not on ten dudes.

The thing is - taking those three upgrades off (if you've got enough lasgun models to fill the gaps) racks you up 80 points - enough for another squad or character somewhere,

Equally, you've laden your army with similarly so-so upgrades.

Camo-netting is a good buy for a guard tank, but track guards, recovery gear and fire barrels are all points you don't need to spend. Exen extra armour isn't that important - as a heavy tank, you can't outrun an assault unit that's getting close, and your job is to sit there shelling things; movement is largely irrelevant.

Deimos pattern Destroyer (not technically IG I know but I am damned if I am paying 40 points more for less BS and only 1/3 of the shots with 1 point worse AP) with camo netting and a pintle mount

The destroyer tank hunter was always the Vanquisher's poor cousin anyway. But you can't take a space marine tank and put camo netting on it - that's an Imperial Guard upgrade and one that's unique to them (for a reason - it's bloody amazing).

Essentially, try going through your army with a savage scalpel and cut off everything not strictly necessary. You will never stand up to marines man-to-man in a fair fight. You win by having more men, more guns and more tanks, not by individual superiority.



My thoughts:


Tank commander in Battletank with camo netting
Battletank with camo netting
Eradicator with camo netting
(frankly I'd use it as a third leman russ)

Company Command Section
Bolt Pistol
MoO
(you've no reserves and no big blobs needing orders, so the unit isn't that critical.....so do you really need a medic?)

Veterans
HB
Forward Sentries
(good cover save and anti-personnel fire. Infantry kill infantry, tanks kill tanks)

Veterans
HB
Forward Sentries

Veterans
HB
Forward Sentries

Veterans
HB
Forward Sentries

Exterminator with pintle HS

Exterminator with pintle HS
(Okay, sometimes tanks kill infantry too)

Thunderer with pintle heavy stubber (it's a short ranged tank so it'll have to advance out of cover - so leave the netting at home)

Deimos pattern Destroyer


By a conservative estimate, that's freed up somewhere in the 200-300 points bracket - that's a full 50 man platoon with a priest to make them fearless, or a pair of battle tanks.....or whatever.

In your case, it's the Rapier Laser Destroyer and both veteran squads, and possibly the vindicere as well.

Or, it's 300 points off the size of the enemy army you're facing. Try stripping stuff out and playing smaller games.

locarno24 wrote:

Priests... Might have to try this.

I would encourage you to do so. I know you say you haven't the budget to rebuild a new army (believe me I ****ing sympathise).

But guard have the edge that they can take odd one-model characters and it's remarkable how much difference they can make for a few quid and 50 points or so.

Priest - cheap as hell, make the unit fearless and can potentially give them armour save rerolls in assaults. Takes a conscript unit from something that'll be broken and run down in one round of combat to a unit that will fight to the last man - and can often hold up a key unit for two full game turns or more.

Inquisitor - Front Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! isn't broken by any means. A major issue is passing the leadership check. But an Inquisitor with Psyker and Prescience not only makes them LD10 Stubborn but also gives them twin-linked.

Tech-priest - A Guard tank is nice. A guard tank with Power of the Machine Spirit is awesome, because you have cheap sponson heavy weapons you generally can't use because of the big guns on the best leman russ versions.


What are you using in your list at the moment?



Also - as noted, consider the alternate 'flavours' of guard: Death Korps, D-99, Tyrant's Legion and (if the Horus Heresy is an option) Imperialis Militia. You might find one of the guard sub-versions more to your taste.

Conscripts with priest and allied Azriel for 4++ rerolling is a really popular strategy.

It just sounds like the worst tarpit to get caught in lol.

Thanks for that, I shall look into it

The thing that I find is that a lot of my opponents are coming towards me - vehicles and all. Hence the Melta guns. Honestly I once had two of them save my bacon by obliterating an undamaged Land Raider that got close to my lines. Both hit, both penetrated and both rolled a 6 for the damage result. I bathed in my opponents butthurt whining (yes, apparently Veterans with Melta are 'cheese').

Take azreal and some scout snipers for some cheap range support and you're golden

 Konrax wrote:
Conscripts with priest and allied Azriel for 4++ rerolling is a really popular strategy.

It just sounds like the worst tarpit to get caught in lol.

Wait, rerolling? I knew about Azrael getting a blob 4++ and Fearless, but not about anything making that save reroll.
That actually gives them a better invulnerable than Storm Shield Terminators! :O

Yeah, that might be helpful. Then again if you wanted Azrael you'd need a Dark Angels CAD, which in turn requires an HQ of some description and two squads of Scouts or Tactical Marines. Or playing doubles with one of the Dark Angels players if one of those guys/gals own him.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
Conscripts with priest and allied Azriel for 4++ rerolling is a really popular strategy.

It just sounds like the worst tarpit to get caught in lol.

Wait, rerolling? I knew about Azrael getting a blob 4++ and Fearless, but not about anything making that save reroll.
That actually gives them a better invulnerable than Storm Shield Terminators! :O

Yeah, that might be helpful. Then again if you wanted Azrael you'd need a Dark Angels CAD, which in turn requires an HQ of some description and two squads of Scouts or Tactical Marines. Or playing doubles with one of the Dark Angels players if one of those guys/gals own him.

Just take them as an allied force and you only need 1 troop.

The priest gives the reroll and azreal gives the 4++ to the blob.

That unit will tie up most things for an entire game assuming azreal isn't challenged to death

How do people get rules for inquisition, I don't think the codex saw print and coteaz is no longer in the GK codex?

Opponents coming towards you is the best place for IG to be. That means you can set up a 24"-12" kill zone for the nastiest stuff and once that's taken care of, you spend the game mopping up.


Here's my procedure against pod alphastrike and fast assault Deathstar styled lists:


-Step 1, tactical objective placement. I don't want midfield objectives, I want edge objectives. But a good fast assault/mobile opponent is going to want midfield objectives as much as possible. So at that point I place objectives as near my deployment zone as I can while still blocking off midfield placement. You can use the "12 inches from another objective" rule to keep your opponent away from the middle of a board. A setup the guard doesn't like to see is like a division sign-one in each deployment zone, lots in the middle. That's bad for you. You want more like a "6" on a D6. 3 towards one board half, 3 towards another-even if they're not as far back as you'd like, your opponent has to hang back a little bit if he wants to hold the whole "home field".

-Step 2, deployment. Culexus always infiltrates out of LOS and across from the enemy Death Star. If they're psychic, hell give them enough pause to let me get to turn 2 and obliterate them. If they're not, he's a melee tarpit with a good AP2 shooting attack. I often reserve my Pask and Pals if there's a significant alphastrike potential like a Skyhammer on the field. My Coteaz blob is the only viable target I want to leave for those guys, maybe even my min sized fearless conscript blob. Then Pask can show up when the enemy is in my face and say here, have a million rending shots and a Battlecannon. Usually, when he arrives the enemy has just got finished carving through my whopping 75 points of conscripts and they're sitting there with zero psychic protection out of their transport. Or, they're still hanging out across the board not doing anything useful, which is fine by me.


Step 3, play the game. Honestly this part has the least important decision making. Deployment is where over half of the significant game changing mistakes are made in 40k.

Makumba wrote:
How do people get rules for inquisition, I don't think the codex saw print and coteaz is no longer in the GK codex?

I usually just use my Google-fu for things like this

Makumba wrote:
How do people get rules for inquisition, I don't think the codex saw print and coteaz is no longer in the GK codex?

It was in 6th and updated for 7th when that dropped. I used "the google."

So there was no printed version, I can't use printed rules where I play.

 Konrax wrote:

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 Konrax wrote:
Conscripts with priest and allied Azriel for 4++ rerolling is a really popular strategy.

It just sounds like the worst tarpit to get caught in lol.

Wait, rerolling? I knew about Azrael getting a blob 4++ and Fearless, but not about anything making that save reroll.
That actually gives them a better invulnerable than Storm Shield Terminators! :O

Yeah, that might be helpful. Then again if you wanted Azrael you'd need a Dark Angels CAD, which in turn requires an HQ of some description and two squads of Scouts or Tactical Marines. Or playing doubles with one of the Dark Angels players if one of those guys/gals own him.

Just take them as an allied force and you only need 1 troop.

The priest gives the reroll and azreal gives the 4++ to the blob.

That unit will tie up most things for an entire game assuming azreal isn't challenged to death

What, in a unit that has at least five guys JUST there to accept challenges? Good luck.

As a side note, this is why I love the divination power that gives a 4++. Enemy big bad monster unit charges into my 20-man conscript line and goes "they get WHAT for a save?"

How do your opponents generally play? That is, when you lose what generally happens?

The tanks, for example are good but you need an infantry screen that can be relied upon to die on queue to make them really pop.

A basic infantry squad with lasguns can win games - not because they'll beat tyberos and the red brethren when they charge but because you can't bypass them - 10 guys can easily block off a gap 12" across - if you want to charge anyone behind them. You can tank shock through, but can't then get out. You canshoot at them, but shooting through the terminators gives them a 5+ save, the land raider blocks a lot of the army's fire....

and if you charge...you'll kill ten guardsmen and be left stranded in front of forty more in rapid fire range with demolisher cannons sighting up as you do so...

oh -final thought: if everyone plays marines - more fool them - why take an eradicator? A demolisher siege tank is much scarier against all the opponents you've described.