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So after a few events I've been to and opinions of people online and at my local hobby store, I come to realize that there is way to much hate in eldar, and for no reason except for "oh there dex is over powered" events I've been to mine and other eldar players soft scores are getting bombed, people refuse to play you at hobby centers/gaming groups. It's ridiculous the amount of cry babies you run into.

Yes it's a great codex, So is the necrons and Spance marines dex but no one says anything about them because apparently eldar are tiers above.
People need to learn how to adapt when new challenges present them selves instead of just being all boo boo stink face about it.

Yeah it's a good book, get over it, find ways to deal with it instead of just refusing to playing against it or in the case of events, bombing your opponents scores. What makes great players is learning how to win and how to get past obstacles but instead everyone just cries about scattbikes, warpspiders, wraithnights blah blah blah. Grow up, learn to play and how to beat it because there are a lot of ways, I'm a eldar player and I've played against army's that beat me because my opponent is a real player.

I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels this way

Learn to play? That's what you've got for us? Tell you what, why don't you play the BA and I'll play the Eldar. Then I can tell you to L2P.

There are some mathematical advantages that no amount of adaptation will fix. Between scatterlasers and D weapons, Eldar can kill everything in the game almost from 36" away and suffer precious little retaliation fire. That's why people complain.

People need to learn not to complain about the army, but worry about those times that there is someone who is playing the top tier list from that army... and if you are going to go to a tournament and cry because you could not compete then why did you go?!

Seriously, I have no issue playing eldar... yea the scatter bike is hard and so are the wraith knights, but I win and lose against them the same as every one else does. Fact is I felt the same pain in 3rd edition with my Sanguinary high cheese, but instead of letting it bother me I actually tried to help those around me that were complaining see ways that they could beat it. Granted, I have seen orks bog down a Forgeworld C'tan for three turns with nothing more than a nob and mad doc

Furthermore, if you want people to not complain then do not bring top tier lists to your casual gaming group unless that is what every one is bringing... Honestly bringing scatter bike to casual gaming is like someone bringing an AR-15 to paintball lol.

Buddy you just walked into a shark tank wearing a steak suit.

For real though, people complain about Eldar because for many armies there ISNT a way to deal with the absurdity that is 300 point wraithknights and D Template weapons. The Eldar were a dominant book already and near everything in it got buffed-don't be surprised if you bring a competitive list and nobody wants to play you.

And no, decurion players, Skyhammer players and Convocation players do not have an easier time finding a willing sucker to play against than an Eldar player with a competitive list.

You know what? You're right. Eldar players do get too much heat for the army they play. Not all of them are cheesy WAAC FOTM players. Some of them like their models/fluff/air brush-ability.

However, you need to realize that not all armies can stand up to yours. There is only so much generalship you can do in the face of a vastly superior force. Telling people to "L2P" is an old, tired and frankly weak argument that doesn't address the fundamental balance issues at play.

the_scotsman wrote:
Buddy you just walked into a shark tank wearing a steak suit.

For real though, people complain about Eldar because for many armies there ISNT a way to deal with the absurdity that is 300 point wraithknights and D Template weapons. The Eldar were a dominant book already and near everything in it got buffed-don't be surprised if you bring a competitive list and nobody wants to play you.

And no, decurion players, Skyhammer players and Convocation players do not have an easier time finding a willing sucker to play against than an Eldar player with a competitive list.

The funny thing is at lower points cost the skyhammer is a joke It is a good list, but by no means is it a power list.

#Eldarlivesmatter

"L2P, noob! LOL!"
That's what I got out of the OP.
Some people like their games to be fair. Eldar and Necron dexes generally don't offer fair play.

Thyhadras wrote:
People need to learn not to complain about the army, but worry about those times that there is someone who is playing the top tier list from that army... and if you are going to go to a tournament and cry because you could not compete then why did you go?!

Seriously, I have no issue playing eldar... yea the scatter bike is hard and so are the wraith knights, but I win and lose against them the same as every one else does. Fact is I felt the same pain in 3rd edition with my Sanguinary high cheese, but instead of letting it bother me I actually tried to help those around me that were complaining see ways that they could beat it. Granted, I have seen orks bog down a Forgeworld C'tan for three turns with nothing more than a nob and mad doc

Furthermore, if you want people to not complain then do not bring top tier lists to your casual gaming group unless that is what every one is bringing... Honestly bringing scatter bike to casual gaming is like someone bringing an AR-15 to paintball lol.

Sorry I didn't meantion, for friendly games I don't bring the cheese I try and use random lists, units I normally don't play with, but just the meantion of eldar gets the nope I don't want to play

 MWHistorian wrote:
"L2P, noob! LOL!"
That's what I got out of the OP.
Some people like their games to be fair. Eldar and Necron dexes generally don't offer fair play.

The offer of army swap usually shuts down L2P.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dman137 wrote:

Thyhadras wrote:
People need to learn not to complain about the army, but worry about those times that there is someone who is playing the top tier list from that army... and if you are going to go to a tournament and cry because you could not compete then why did you go?!

Seriously, I have no issue playing eldar... yea the scatter bike is hard and so are the wraith knights, but I win and lose against them the same as every one else does. Fact is I felt the same pain in 3rd edition with my Sanguinary high cheese, but instead of letting it bother me I actually tried to help those around me that were complaining see ways that they could beat it. Granted, I have seen orks bog down a Forgeworld C'tan for three turns with nothing more than a nob and mad doc

Furthermore, if you want people to not complain then do not bring top tier lists to your casual gaming group unless that is what every one is bringing... Honestly bringing scatter bike to casual gaming is like someone bringing an AR-15 to paintball lol.

Sorry I didn't meantion, for friendly games I don't bring the cheese I try and use random lists, units I normally don't play with, but just the meantion of eldar gets the nope I don't want to play

Maybe because the random Eldar unit can hang with purposefully chosen marine and Tau units.

Honestly, if you have players who refuse to play in your gaming group then you have one of two problems...

1. You are a jerk to play against, and in fact do bring the cheesiest thing you can (which you just said is not the case)

2. They feed into the forum mentality of "oh no, they are bring eldar I can not win"...

either way are problems that a little bit of communication can solve

Martel732 wrote:
The offer of army swap usually shuts down L2P.

There should be a tournament where you play 3 games... Once with your army, once with opponent's, and once you flip a coin.

The reactions would be hilarious!

" They feed into the forum mentality of "oh no, they are bring eldar I can not win".."

It is indeed hard to win with no models on the table come turn 4.

 MWHistorian wrote:
"L2P, noob! LOL!"
That's what I got out of the OP.
Some people like their games to be fair. Eldar and Necron dexes generally don't offer fair play.

And Skyhammer. And Gladius.

Yoyoyo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The offer of army swap usually shuts down L2P.

There should be a tournament where you play 3 games... Once with your army, once with opponent's, and once you flip a coin.

The reactions would be hilarious!

In Netrunner at least you have to run once and corp once against each tourney foe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
"L2P, noob! LOL!"
That's what I got out of the OP.
Some people like their games to be fair. Eldar and Necron dexes generally don't offer fair play.

And Skyhammer. And Gladius.

Gladius at least gives BA some false hope. I might be able to punch out all the free tanks and then punch out the marines inside. There's a CHANCE that might happen. Being tabled by turn 4? No chance there.

Also, telling people to L2P in 40k is pointless. The imbalances among codexes is astounding, and frankly, a lot of armies can't deal with Eldar very easily.

Yoyoyo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The offer of army swap usually shuts down L2P.

There should be a tournament where you play 3 games... Once with your army, once with opponent's, and once you flip a coin.

The reactions would be hilarious!

That actually sounds like a interesting idea

I do feel bad for the eldar players who got into the army because of the fluff/aesthetics and who run fluffy lists. The stigma against eldar has gotten so bad that even those who play fun lists can't get a game in because people refuse to play them

War Kitten wrote:
I do feel bad for the eldar players who got into the army because of the fluff/aesthetics and who run fluffy lists. The stigma against eldar has gotten so bad that even those who play fun lists can't get a game in because people refuse to play them

Well, speaking from first-hand experience, playing a casual list of a top-tier army against other casual lists of lower-tier armies still isn't fun. It's a lot harder to make a bad CSM or Ork list than it is to make a bad Eldar list.

L2P is not a legitimate argument, especially when an Eldar player will beat a BA player of equal skill near 100% of the team.

Feth jetbikes, feth invisible seerstars and feth strength D.

The only people who can say "learn to play" without coming across as an arrogant nit are people who play armies that are commonly acknowledged as being weak or sub-optimal.

Even then, you'd be shocked how many people light into me as a Sisters player when I tell them that I win because I learned to play...

Look... I want to imagine for a second that you are the subject matter expert on something... and someone is complaining to you about how to do something... would it be better to tell them to figure it out, or would it be better to give people some ideas of how to figure it out???

Telling someone to learn to play is not the right way to say it... telling them to learn new strategies to make their army better is the right way to say it.

HOWEVER.... make life easier and give them ideas how to beat it, that solves the problem.

Granted there are some match ups that are going to be garbage no matter what...

Perfect example is Marine bike army versus Green Tide army... the marine bikes are going to struggle very hard against someone who understands how to use their orks... and by struggle I mean they are going to most likely be tabled by turn 3...

If you run into a TFG in the morning, you ran into a TFG.
If you run into TFGs all day, you're the TFG.

 deviantduck wrote:
If you run into a TFG in the morning, you ran into a TFG.
If you run into TFGs all day, you're the TFG.

Exactly

Dman137 wrote:

People need to learn how to adapt when new challenges present them selves instead of just being all boo boo stink face about it.

Yeah it's a good book, get over it, find ways to deal with it instead of

L2P is not a good place to start an argument. I'm fine with playing Eldar, but you're not going to win people over by being a "Suck it up, and L2P" kind of person.

How about "Learn 2 Post, whiner!"

Does that help you at all? Do you feel better now that I told you that?

Didn't think so. Treat people the way you want to be treated.

In casual games I can understand the hesitation to play against an Eldar list. Really depends on communication though and talking to your opponent. If you have a good gaming group than most issues cam be sorted out before a model touches the table.

However the Eldar hate in tournament play is pretty lame. Like mentioned before, tournaments are the most competitive settings with people who are expected to be playing to win. Getting upset at cheese-laden lists makes me wonder why you would sign up in the first place.

 clamclaw wrote:
In casual games I can understand the hesitation to play against an Eldar list. Really depends on communication though and talking to your opponent. If you have a good gaming group than most issues cam be sorted out before a model touches the table.

However the Eldar hate in tournament play is pretty lame. Like mentioned before, tournaments are the most competitive settings with people who are expected to be playing to win. Getting upset at cheese-laden lists makes me wonder why you would sign up in the first place.

Like going to a drag strip in a Honda and crying that the Vette beat you

Dman137 wrote:
So after a few events I've been to and opinions of people online and at my local hobby store, I come to realize that there is way to much hate in eldar, and for no reason except for "oh there dex is over powered" events I've been to mine and other eldar players soft scores are getting bombed, people refuse to play you at hobby centers/gaming groups. It's ridiculous the amount of cry babies you run into.

Yes it's a great codex, So is the necrons and Spance marines dex but no one says anything about them because apparently eldar are tiers above.
People need to learn how to adapt when new challenges present them selves instead of just being all boo boo stink face about it.

Yeah it's a good book, get over it, find ways to deal with it instead of just refusing to playing against it or in the case of events, bombing your opponents scores. What makes great players is learning how to win and how to get past obstacles but instead everyone just cries about scattbikes, warpspiders, wraithnights blah blah blah. Grow up, learn to play and how to beat it because there are a lot of ways, I'm a eldar player and I've played against army's that beat me because my opponent is a real player.

I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels this way

Have you read the Eldar codex? It's almost the very definition of overpowered. And yes, people also complain plenty about Decurion Necrons and the Gladius and the War Convocation.

There's only so much "L2P" you can do when you're codex is outclassed in many ways.

I'm not saying that Eldar are unbeatable. They aren't. But if the Eldar player is going all-out with the cheese, there are only a few lists that can stand a chance of winning.

I wouldn't worry about it. It's a stretch for SM or DA players to say that Eldar outclass their codex and the necron book is straight up better. And SM are the vast majority of armies so I don't see how you're not getting games unless everyone in your club runs sisters and dark Eldar or something.

Eldar hate is overblown and getting pretty old.

There are what 3 units that pose a serious problem and nobody can plan around that? Really?

I play Eldar. I win some, I lose some. Never had anyone at the club refuse to play me no matter what list I bring.

I simply think it is sad that people are refusing to step out of their cookie-cutter comfort zone and not trying to think of a way around the problematic units.