Eldar hate needs to stop.

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**Quickjager**

I you play Eldar don't complain when people don't want to play you. They have been consistently THE top tier codex for years, it was a predictable trend.

If you like Eldar so much proxy them as something else. IG w/ a Imperial Knight (Wraithknight).

If you refuse to proxy then it isn't because you like the fluff, or the aesthetic, it is because you want to win. Army swap, whatever. Doesn't change the fact you're playing the codex where every option is a ABOVE AVERAGE unit.

"Go play with your Necron friends and recreate the War in Heaven, D-weapons against Saves that work against them." - is what I want to say, but we need more xenos in 40k.

.

**Bharring**

bs.

For most units and options in the Eldar 'dex, SM have similarly powered options.

Rangers? Sniper scouts.

Guardians w/ a BL? Lascannon Tac squad.

DAs? Plas Tac squad

Scorpions? ASM.

Wraithblades? Termies.

Falcons? Razorbacks on the cheap, or laspred+rhino for the same points.

Vyper? Landspeeder.

Autarch? A poor Captain.

Scatter Bikes and Distort aren't the entirety of the book. Its better than it should be, but there is a lot that isn't OP.

**oni**

Dman137 wrote:
So after a few events I've been to and opinions of people online and at my local hobby store, I come to realize that there is way to much hate in eldar, and for no reason except for "oh there dex is over powered" events I've been to mine and other eldar players soft scores are getting bombed, people refuse to play you at hobby centers/gaming groups. It's ridiculous the amount of cry babies you run into.

Yes it's a great codex, So is the necrons and Spance marines dex but no one says anything about them because apparently eldar are tiers above.
People need to learn how to adapt when new challenges present them selves instead of just being all boo boo stink face about it.

Yeah it's a good book, get over it, find ways to deal with it instead of just refusing to playing against it or in the case of events, bombing your opponents scores. What makes great players is learning how to win and how to get past obstacles but instead everyone just cries about scattbikes, warpspiders, wraithnights blah blah blah. Grow up, learn to play and how to beat it because there are a lot of ways, I'm a eldar player and I've played against army's that beat me because my opponent is a real player.

I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels this way

Go balls to the wall at a tournament, that's what it's all about, but bring a powerhouse list of any faction and that gak attitude to a casual game and I'll call you a tosser and walk away - simple as that. Don't try to force your play style onto the casual, narrative players - it only makes you TFG.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
bs.

For most units and options in the Eldar 'dex, SM have similarly powered options.

Rangers? Sniper scouts.

Guardians w/ a BL? Lascannon Tac squad.

DAs? Plas Tac squad

Scorpions? ASM.

Wraithblades? Termies.

Falcons? Razorbacks on the cheap, or laspred+rhino for the same points.

Vyper? Landspeeder.

Autarch? A poor Captain.

Scatter Bikes and Distort aren't the entirety of the book. Its better than it should be, but there is a lot that isn't OP.

Not BS. I can take random Eldar units and massacre you if you tried to use my BA.

**Vaktathi**

Dman137 wrote:
So after a few events I've been to and opinions of people online and at my local hobby store, I come to realize that there is way to much hate in eldar, and for no reason except for "oh there dex is over powered" events I've been to mine and other eldar players soft scores are getting bombed, people refuse to play you at hobby centers/gaming groups. It's ridiculous the amount of cry babies you run into.

And whining about whining is better...how?

Yes it's a great codex, So is the necrons and Spance marines dex but no one says anything about them because apparently eldar are tiers above.

Gonna have to stop you here, because this is flat out false

Clearly you haven't spent enough time reading around, both of these books get plenty of hate, Necrons possibly still even moreso than Eldar. Hell we've had at least one, I think possibly two, about Necrons, in the last few days.

People need to learn how to adapt when new challenges present them selves instead of just being all boo boo stink face about it.

Ah, the classic "L2P" response, and just as classically lacking in examples to support its case.

One must acknowledge that many armies simply don't have proper tools to "adapt" to this on anything near an equal or consistent basis. This isn't unique to Eldar, but they're amongst the few that it's a very real issue with.

I'm sure I'm not the only person that feels this way

No, but that doesn't mean it's not an uninformed stance either.

**Thyhadras**

Real talk... any one around the blacksburg Va area? I will bring blood angels and you bring you eldar army... I will most likely win (almost assuredly) we will video it... post it here and settle this argument ... heck we can run multiple lists against one BA list

**niv-mizzet**

i havent heard one person complaining (much) about wraithknights or the D.

My only issue with D is that its existence makes land raiders/monoliths etc get benched even more than before in a TAC environment. (As if gauss/haywire/grav/melta/lance weren't enough to do that.)

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Thyhadras wrote:
Real talk... any one around the blacksburg Va area? I will bring blood angels and you bring you eldar army... I will most likely win (almost assuredly) we will video it... post it here and settle this argument ... heck we can run multiple lists against one BA list

What's the BA list have in it, out of curiosity?

**Martel732**

Thyhadras wrote:
Real talk... any one around the blacksburg Va area? I will bring blood angels and you bring you eldar army... I will most likely win (almost assuredly) we will video it... post it here and settle this argument ... heck we can run multiple lists against one BA list

I would be flabbergasted if you could pull this off.

**Thyhadras**

Martel732 wrote:
Thyhadras wrote:
Real talk... any one around the blacksburg Va area? I will bring blood angels and you bring you eldar army... I will most likely win (almost assuredly) we will video it... post it here and settle this argument ... heck we can run multiple lists against one BA list

I would be flabbergasted if you could pull this off.

Simply put, if you live with in 100 miles of Floyd Va (where I live) and you play eldar I am off on Saturday and will come down and bring BA, we can meet up, play a couple games... only request would be not scatter bike because it is something that I am not sure that nearly anything can handle (however, one of the games could definitely be against scatterbike as I still have faith in my ability to play that I could win)

**Martel732**

" only request would be not scatter bike "

Really? That's the backbone of the Eldar list.

**Thyhadras**

You just said any random eldar list would walk over blood angels... heck, I would play scatter bike and most likely stomp it as well... but... then again I would not run a single assault marine... and probably no more than 10 tactical marines

**Martel732**

Thyhadras wrote:
You just said any random eldar list would walk over blood angels... heck, I would play scatter bike and most likely stomp it as well... but... then again I would not run a single assault marine... and probably no more than 10 tactical marines

Fair enough, I suppose. I do think that a unit by unit comparison greatly favors the Eldar over BA.

**Thyhadras**

Some of them sure.... but compare eldrad to meph... compare prince autarch guy to Dante.... compare anything not on bike to stern guard, (do they have a flier) if so look at the storm raven... you have some beast units in your dex... just gotta remember that tactical marines and assault marines are only there to make a legal list.

**Martel732**

Thyhadras wrote:
Some of them sure.... but compare eldrad to meph... compare prince autarch guy to Dante.... compare anything not on bike to stern guard, (do they have a flier) if so look at the storm raven... you have some beast units in your dex... just gotta remember that tactical marines and assault marines are only there to make a legal list.

I actually consider nearly everything in the BA codex subpar. Mephiston being stuck at AP 3 really kills him, Dante is a meh LoW, and the Stormraven simply garbage. (66 pts/HP? LOL what?) Sternguard are solid, but targeted quickly and removed.

**Thyhadras**

How is the storm raven garbage? and dante is a meh LoW??? compared to what? compared to a stompa? or compared to marneus calgar?

If you look at this game in basic statistic terms you are really failing to see a lot of the variables... The storm raven is one of the best fliers in the game.

**Martel732**

Thyhadras wrote:
How is the storm raven garbage? and dante is a meh LoW??? compared to what? compared to a stompa? or compared to marneus calgar?

If you look at this game in basic statistic terms you are really failing to see a lot of the variables... The storm raven is one of the best fliers in the game.

I can assure you that is poor. It's one of my favorite things for my opponent to have wasted their points on. Starts in reserve, has mediocre firepower and few enough HPs that it can be downed by snap shots if necessary.

Dante is a melee element in a shooting game and costs over 200 pts. That is the definition of meh. For a little more Eldar can get Str D shooting on a gargantuan monstrous creature.

**Bharring**

So Assault Marines lose to Striking Scorpions, because Mephy is only AP3?

Guardians kick ass because of SD on units not in the list?

**niv-mizzet**

Dante is boss when you're playing against the other low tier books. When you compare against the prices the top tier books pay and what they get for it, he starts to look less appealing. 220 in the cron book can get you just shy of a minimal canoptek harvest formation.

I don't like 7e Mephy because he pays for T5 and doesn't benefit from it without walking alongside bikes or allying with centurions. Riding with marines means majority t4 outside challenges.

The storm raven is a neat flyer, and if the opponent also has a flyer, the raven has good odds of winning a head to head. The issue is that it's also incredibly expensive, and if an opponent doesn't have a high value target for it to kill, it's very difficult for it to pay for itself in game.

I see that you aren't even aware of it the eldar have a flyer. Perhaps you should go read through their book before making claims about them. One of their flyers vector dances, shoots 2 str D blasts, and is also a ml2 psyker, and costs less than the storm raven, for example.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
So Assault Marines lose to Striking Scorpions, because Mephy is only AP3?

Guardians kick ass because of SD on units not in the list?

Please elaborate.

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niv-mizzet wrote:
Dante is boss when you're playing against the other low tier books. When you compare against the prices the top tier books pay and what they get for it, he starts to look less appealing. 220 in the cron book can get you just shy of a minimal canoptek harvest formation.

I don't like 7e Mephy because he pays for T5 and doesn't benefit from it without walking alongside bikes or allying with centurions. Riding with marines means majority t4 outside challenges.

The storm raven is a neat flyer, and if the opponent also has a flyer, the raven has good odds of winning a head to head. The issue is that it's also incredibly expensive, and if an opponent doesn't have a high value target for it to kill, it's very difficult for it to pay for itself in game.

I see that you aren't even aware of it the eldar have a flyer. Perhaps you should go read through their book before making claims about them. One of their flyers vector dances, shoots 2 str D blasts, and is also a ml2 psyker, and costs less than the storm raven, for example.

It's actually really hard for a Stormraven to kill a Helldrake now, which was its #1 priority all along. Other flyers have the same problems as the Stormraven, only a little less so usually.

**Bharring**

You're saying that its BS that my Eldar lists aren't more scary than my SM lists.

You argue this by saying that random things from the Eldar dex will beat BA.

The odds of SD being in a random Eldar list isn't that great, whether or not you weight the random for legal bound lists and/or fluff.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
You're saying that its BS that my Eldar lists aren't more scary than my SM lists.

You argue this by saying that random things from the Eldar dex will beat BA.

The odds of SD being in a random Eldar list isn't that great, whether or not you weight the random for legal bound lists and/or fluff.

Eldar don't need StrengthD to make a mockery of BA lists. The sheer ineffectiveness of BA units does that for them.

**Bharring**

The Crimson Hunter will take down the BA flyer. Then get dropped from boltguns or whatever. Its an AV10 on all facing, but has amazing firepower.

The Hemlock is the real OP flyer. But it can't touch the BA flyer, oddly enough.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you can't envision BAs doing anything to an army of t3 on foot, with a lot of 4+ and 5+, mostly with short range, you might want to think about it for a while.

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
The Crimson Hunter will take down the BA flyer. Then get dropped from boltguns or whatever. Its an AV10 on all facing, but has amazing firepower.

The Hemlock is the real OP flyer. But it can't touch the BA flyer, oddly enough.

But the BA player already lost by bringing an overcosted unit that starts in reserves and so doesn't participate in the entire game. The BA must maximize cost efficiency in every slot.

**Bharring**

Or, the BA flyer comes on and wipes a Cast of Players off the table with ease.

Don't confuse "doesn't show at the top table" with "doesn't get used by me".

**Thyhadras**

Have not had the pleasure of playing against the eldar flier... sounds nasty... good thing I have my storm raven to put it out of the sky

Also, the points are there, and they are there for a reason, however, I have never had my storm raven not earn back its points... or here is a crazy idea... holding objectives in a game that is predominately about objectives...

**Martel732**

Bharring wrote:
Or, the BA flyer comes on and wipes a Cast of Players off the table with ease.

Don't confuse "doesn't show at the top table" with "doesn't get used by me".

Which players can the thing wipe out with ease, again? For the low, low price of 230 with sponsons? Because otherwise it has about eight shots max on its first turn. Hooray. That's so worth 200 pts.

**Desubot**

Are you guys really expecting bolters to take down a flier?

I know its do able and 6s happen but the actual chances are pretty dismal .

**Martel732**

Thyhadras wrote:
Have not had the pleasure of playing against the eldar flier... sounds nasty... good thing I have my storm raven to put it out of the sky

Also, the points are there, and they are there for a reason, however, I have never had my storm raven not earn back its points... or here is a crazy idea... holding objectives in a game that is predominately about objectives...

Hard to hold objectives with no models on the board. Eldar have tabled me more times than not.

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Desubot wrote:
Are you guys really expecting bolters to take down a flier?

I know its do able and 6s happen but the actual chances are pretty dismal .

Some people are under the impression that the boltgun is to be feared and respected.

**Thyhadras**

Actually some people count on this idea called attrition... and you throw enough shots at something and the odds move in your favor... I have lost terminators more often to shooting from stupid ork shoota boys than anything else

**Martel732**

Then it's unfortunate indeed that conventional marine lists suffer from a lack of shots.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thyhadras wrote:
Actually some people count on this idea called attrition... and you throw enough shots at something and the odds move in your favor... I have lost terminators more often to shooting from stupid ork shoota boys than anything else

Terminators also have less durability/pt than a tac marine against Ork shootas. So that was the expected outcome.