Fear the Walking Dead *SPOILER ALERT* (season 2 starts on pg 11)

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**DarkTraveler777**

AegisGrimm wrote:
Seriously, the mom and daughter watched their neighbor literally get chased down and attacked, and then not only did they turn away without question, they went and played Monopoly! Are you fething serious?

I saw that scene as representing the characters' denial of the events taking place around them. The mother didn't want to expose her children to what was outside, and so she opted for "family game night" instead. Trying to spin a horrible moment into one of normality. I don't see that state of denial being much different than a family averting their eyes from a homeless person on the street as they casually walk into a restaurant for dinner. Sure, the family knows the homeless person is likely hungry, but they ignore that knowledge in the hope of having a pleasant evening out.

Perhaps that is a larger theme the show is trying to present--the callousness of society, especially urban society, is partially responsible for humanity's fall.

**easysauce**

Zombies have always supposed to be holding up a mirror to our society, ever since the romero days.

Its a critique on out the general state of apathy, disconnectedness, denial, ect that post modern society seems to be swimming in.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AegisGrimm wrote:
The mom is an annoying bag of crazy, and the characters are written to be so ungodly unlikeable.

Seriously, the mom and daughter watched their neighbor literally get chased down and attacked, and then not only did they turn away without question, they went and played Monopoly! Are you fething serious?

in real life, during the first world war, there was a day when they took a break from fighting to play footbal, then went back to slaughtering each other in no mans land.

People in crazy situations crave normality, even if an observer things its odd

**Mr Morden**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
Seriously, the mom and daughter watched their neighbor literally get chased down and attacked, and then not only did they turn away without question, they went and played Monopoly! Are you fething serious?

I saw that scene as representing the characters' denial of the events taking place around them. The mother didn't want to expose her children to what was outside, and so she opted for "family game night" instead. Trying to spin a horrible moment into one of normality. I don't see that state of denial being much different than a family averting their eyes from a homeless person on the street as they casually walk into a restaurant for dinner. Sure, the family knows the homeless person is likely hungry, but they ignore that knowledge in the hope of having a pleasant evening out.

Perhaps that is a larger theme the show is trying to present--the callousness of society, especially urban society, is partially responsible for humanity's fall.

If that's the bit from episode 2 - it was worse than that - the daughter actually wanted to help and was prepared to do so but her mother stopped her. So they ignored the screams until the stopped - it was a mother with children being attacked.

Stuff like that happens and yeah not everyone in the show can be heroic or likeable - but the mother and the drug addict loser son are the total opposite. Isn't she supposed to be a counsellor or something and actually have some empathy for others?

**Frazzled**

Hulksmash wrote:
Finally watched it. Overall solid.

I agree that because of the focus the military is being shown in a "villainous" fashion. That said outside of the pure dickishness of the commander (which could just be due to bluntness and stress) I didn't feel like military was intentionally evil or taking people out back and shooting them. I got a vibe of people who have already seen some gak and genuinely feel like they're doing the right thing.

Something to consider is that the military has only cleared 6 miles from the hills. If the other "camps" are similarly situated they haven't even touched on the population of Los Angeles. So the situation is far from "contained" in a modern situation.

That 6 mile cordone is as much for the safety of the troops as the people in the camps. They need the buffer and they need a safe line of retreat. If they miss potential zombies on the way out they could be accidentally cut off.

Again I think the issue isn't that the military is inept it falls back on the actual government who are hiding what is happening from the people. Granted the choice to grab people in the middle of the night is stupid and paints a poor picture but that might be orders. It's certainly has to be orders to not talk at all about what's going on and where the hospital is. I don't think they are against the character morality. It's that since there aren't allowed to talk to people about their reasons they appear that way to the characters.

Overall I'm still enjoying the show and it's ramping up well. I like Madison, Nick, the Salazar Daughter and Daniel most right now as they are people that each in their own way are survivors and are already accepting the situation. The sister, Travis, his son are meh but at least mildly interesting.

Is it me but they seem to be playing the district officer or whoewver he is as a royal dick BUT...in real life how would this guy have time to talk to anyone much less play golf. He is in the middle of a combination refugee center/disaster zone surrounded by a war they are losing. He's not going to have time to play golf and be a dick. Thats what I don't understand.

**Hulksmash**

The golf thing bothered me. Every other interaction made sense especially when it's based on him being available to talk to the person he's relying on to hold the "camp" together. And the way he talks sounds dickish but is also extremely blunt (again, outside of that golf conversation). That conversation could easily have been held while the officer was doing something instead of hitting golf balls.

@Morden

You do realize the mom at the time was adjusting to a rather insane day right? She saw her sons friend get run over multiple times and get back up over and over after he'd tried to kill her son. She also had to put down her zombie boss when she doesn't realize what zombies or the situation is.

She doesn't understand it, she's determined it's some kind of disease, she doesn't want her daughter to get it (however it's transmitted), and like it or not isn't to far off of how people would likely react in a neighborhood like that in LA. Some would go to help but it's just as likely they would hunker down and let the cops/people involved sort it out.

**chaos0xomega**

The golf thing was probably done to show that the military either isn't taking the situation seriously enough/being ineffective, or it was the same sort of thing as the monopoly game, an effort to show that people crave normalcy. Or maybe the dude knows things are about to fall apart and hes enjoying one last tour of the links before it all collapses.

**Hulksmash**

I could see it as an extension of the normalcy of the monopoly game. Also maybe a way of showing everything is under control to his troops. It just felt like it needed something added so it didn't feel contrived. The monopoly thing is a solid way of showing how a fair number of civilians would react to the situation. You don't expect the military to be putting their heads in the sand and saying "Everything is normal". Especially when if it's safe enough to play golf outside the fence why can't we go home would come up.

Also, for those mad at Madison for not saving her neighbor or that these people aren't heroes remember that these are normal people. TWD started with the main two leaders being former law enforcement. People with that drive to help and protect others. People with a tendency to run towards the danger to save others. FTWD's characters don't start there. I think that is part of show that is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. So far there are no "authority" figures in the group.

**chaos0xomega**

Were they outside the fence? I thought they were just inside it?

From what I could find online, quickly, it seems that the producers included the scene because they are fans of 'surreal juxtaposition'.

**Hulksmash**

Nah, he was outside and hitting down the street. Travis was talking to him thru the fence. Oh well, it's one scene I didn't care for because a single line could have slotted it in so well. Meh

**Alpharius**

It is curious to see that the 'Zombie Epidemic' has gone Full Crazy yet.

Atlanta's a lot smaller than Los Angels, and that seemed to go bad a lot quicker than this.

And yeah, the Military/Government are already 'up to no good', as evidenced by the last scene of this week's episode.

Still, only two more episodes to go, then back to the Regular Walking Dead.

**Frazzled**

Would be interesting tidbit that the guard -tipped off by Travis- sent units to rescue the people in the building, but it turned out they were too late and walked into a nest of zombies-hence the firefight.

**DarkTraveler777**

Mr Morden wrote:

Spoiler:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:
Seriously, the mom and daughter watched their neighbor literally get chased down and attacked, and then not only did they turn away without question, they went and played Monopoly! Are you fething serious?

I saw that scene as representing the characters' denial of the events taking place around them. The mother didn't want to expose her children to what was outside, and so she opted for "family game night" instead. Trying to spin a horrible moment into one of normality. I don't see that state of denial being much different than a family averting their eyes from a homeless person on the street as they casually walk into a restaurant for dinner. Sure, the family knows the homeless person is likely hungry, but they ignore that knowledge in the hope of having a pleasant evening out.

Perhaps that is a larger theme the show is trying to present--the callousness of society, especially urban society, is partially responsible for humanity's fall.

Mr Morden wrote:
If that's the bit from episode 2 - it was worse than that - the daughter actually wanted to help and was prepared to do so but her mother stopped her. So they ignored the screams until the stopped - it was a mother with children being attacked.

Stuff like that happens and yeah not everyone in the show can be heroic or likeable - but the mother and the drug addict loser son are the total opposite. Isn't she supposed to be a counsellor or something and actually have some empathy for others?

Sure, but the daughter hadn't encountered a walker yet, but the mother had with her husband and son in the river wash. The mother knows that the sick people (walkers to us, but not to them yet) are dangerous. With that knowledge couldn't the board game scene be interpreted as the mother protecting her own daughter and son from the dangers outside? The mother's empathy was there for the neighbor, she talked to the neighbor off screen, presumably to warn her about the sickness. But, without a weapon, and with only her daughter and junkie son in the house, why would the mother intervene for a neighbor and put her own family at risk?

easysauce wrote:
Zombies have always supposed to be holding up a mirror to our society, ever since the romero days.

Its a critique on out the general state of apathy, disconnectedness, denial, ect that post modern society seems to be swimming in.

Exactly right, and I think the board game scene is central to those themes.

Mr. Morden: Using the homeless example again, I work near downtown LA and drive by a small tent city every day going in to and out of my work place. I know those people are suffering, and I know I could help, but I also worry about my own safety if I were to approach that group and offer assistance. And if something happened to me I worry about what would become of my family members depending on me, and I keep driving. Detachment, denial, and fear keep me in my car, and keep me from intervening. Same as the mother staying in her house in my opinion.

**Hulksmash**

Actually Darktraveler777, to further enhance our point she's actually put down her boss at the point when the attack outside happens. So she's already had 2 run-ins with the infected.

**DarkTraveler777**

Hulksmash wrote:
Actually Darktraveler777, to further enhance our point she's actually put down her boss at the point when the attack outside happens. So she's already had 2 run-ins with the infected.

Damn! Good one, I forgot about that encounter.

That was brutal, and definitely ups the fear factor on the mother's part regarding interacting with the infected.

**gorgon**

I wouldn't want my wife or child running out there GIVEN THE SITUATION (pandemic underway, crazed and/or diseased attacker, nighttime, etc). Some of you guys would? If we're talking about an adult male in position to help, the equation changes a little.

Even then, you have to think very hard about what happens to your family if something happens to you. Who needs you more, your neighbor or your family?

The way I see the series at this point (and this is just how I view and process it) is that everyone already KNOWS at some level, even Travis. The Monopoly, etc. is one part reflection of the denial they're projecting, and another part seeking a moment of 'normalcy' before it all goes under and those kinds of moments are gone forever.

The officer knows the score better than anyone, and so he's using a neighborhood as a driving range because what the @#$& even matters anymore, I've seen dead people walking around and we're @#$%ing going around killing our own people in order to protect a small number of survivors who may end up all dying from this anyway.

Again, just how I see it.

**Breotan**

Hulksmash wrote:
She doesn't understand it, she's determined it's some kind of disease, she doesn't want her daughter to get it (however it's transmitted), and like it or not isn't to far off of how people would likely react in a neighborhood like that in LA. Some would go to help but it's just as likely they would hunker down and let the cops/people involved sort it out.

Here's the thing. In the Dawn of the Dead remake there were no prior "zombie" culture issues for them to rely on just like in this show. Still, the news networks very quickly began television broadcasts stating "the unburied dead are attacking the living". Even if the cause was unknown, it should be obvious pretty damned quick that these are "dead people" who are attacking everyone. It's the continued denial of this "fact" that escapes me.

**Hulksmash**

You might have missed the part where since the riots the power and cell towers have been down. Add that into the isolation of the safety zone and it's understandable that at least the people in this location have no idea what's actually going on (or at least no confirmation for their concerns/knowledge).

Basically, since this was more of a slow ramp up the government have had more control over the information getting out that the sudden shift that was going to bed and everything was fine and waking up to zombies eating your neighborhood like in Dawn of the Dead.

**Alpharius**

Frazzled wrote:
Would be interesting tidbit that the guard -tipped off by Travis- sent units to rescue the people in the building, but it turned out they were too late and walked into a nest of zombies-hence the firefight.

While I think the Guard was in fact tipped off, I think they were out waiting/looking for them - and once they flashed their flashlight again, well...

**Mr Morden**

The mother's empathy was there for the neighbor, she talked to the neighbor off screen, presumably to warn her about the sickness

When did that happen or was referred to? I just saw family preparing for a children's party - mum and step dad get back from killing the drug dealer zombie - look at them, shake their heads and move on. They look at the guy loading stuff into his boot and go - "he's got the right idea" and then walk in the House.

Friend and I watched the two episodes and just shrugged - he didn't like a single person and I was meh about a couple (daughter and step dad were ok) but no-one grabbed us in terms of caring about these people, if they lived or died and if that doesn't happen - I am just not that interested.

Still find it weird that given all the media stuff about guns in the US, no civilian in the show has one?

The mother and step dad were quite happy to wander around a known (to them) drug den where "bad things had happened" with no weapon, no backup plan, nothing - just to see if they could figure out what happened to her worthless son. She was also dismissive of anyone else there and what might have happened to them- "bad things happen" which I guess is why they didn't mention to the cops - even though their son might have been attacked and a serial killer or just drug addled killer on the loose. I get they might have thought her son was responsible, but he might not have been. What would they have done if they found someone badly hurt - likely walked away?

**Frazzled**

Still find it weird that given all the media stuff about guns in the US, no civilian in the show has one?

This is granola crunching West LA. In Compton they got the

handled!.

They need a further spinoff: FTWF: Fear The Walking Frazzled...

**Sinful Hero**

Frazzled wrote:

Still find it weird that given all the media stuff about guns in the US, no civilian in the show has one?

This is granola crunching West LA. In Compton they got the handled!.

They need a further spinoff: FTWF: Fear The Walking Frazzled...

As Frazzled said, there's strong anti-gun sentiment(for the most part) in California where FtWD takes place, unlike TWD which is set in the SouthEast USA which is generally known as big on pro-gun sentiment.

Honestly I'd find it hilarious if they did a "No atheists in foxholes" moment where they talk about how they hate guns, but use them anyway to protect themselves.

Spoiler:

**DarkTraveler777**

Mr Morden wrote:
The mother's empathy was there for the neighbor, she talked to the neighbor off screen, presumably to warn her about the sickness

When did that happen or was referred to? I just saw family preparing for a children's party - mum and step dad get back from killing the drug dealer zombie - look at them, shake their heads and move on. They look at the guy loading stuff into his boot and go - "he's got the right idea" and then walk in the House.

There is a brief discussion between Travis and Madison where Madison mentions she will talk to the birthday party neighbor, and you see her go towards the neighbor's house before the scene changes. As I said, the presumable warning occurred off screen, but Madison's character does show concern for her neighbor.

Mr Morden wrote:
Still find it weird that given all the media stuff about guns in the US, no civilian in the show has one?

Maybe things aren't exactly how the media portrays them to be?

Or did I walk into a trolling situation here?

**Mr Morden**

No it was serious question - I really don't know what it is actually like in the US and have to rely on secondary sources. Hence the question.

Sinful Hero has helped my understanding a bit.

- without derailing the thread - I just find it odd - same with a lot of films etc.

Eg: I absolutely hated very moment of "Scream" - would have loved for any of the girls to have pulled a gun and blown the killers away.

**Sinful Hero**

Mr Morden wrote:
No it was serious question - I really don't know what it is actually like in the US and have to rely on secondary sources. Hence the question.

Sinful Hero has helped my understanding a bit.

- without derailing the thread - I just find it odd - same with a lot of films etc.

Eg: I absolutely hated very moment of "Scream" - would have loved for any of the girls to have pulled a gun and blown the killers away.

Also I believe California has pretty strict gun control laws, so most folks that live there won't bother getting one.

The show is set in a very different environment to the Southeastern USA, and I hope they get into that a bit.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Mr Morden wrote:
No it was serious question - I really don't know what it is actually like in the US and have to rely on secondary sources. Hence the question.

Sinful Hero has helped my understanding a bit.

- without derailing the thread - I just find it odd - same with a lot of films etc.

Eg: I absolutely hated very moment of "Scream" - would have loved for any of the girls to have pulled a gun and blown the killers away.

When I lived in central PA, all but a few households I visited or know of had several firearms, mostly for hunting but plenty of home security pistols as well, very gun-heavy area. Hunting is a way of life there, kids have days off school for the opening days of certain seasons starting (buck, doe, duck etc).

Living on the coast of MA, very few households here are armed. I've never seen anyone carrying other than police, we do hear the firing range all Sunday though, from across the harbor. So there are guns, but in much less conspicuous places and far fewer. When I've pondered getting a home security firearm to local neighbors, I've certainly been met with a few raised eyebrows, back in PA, people were constantly perplexed by my not owning a gun.

This is a continent-sized nation with very different communities all over it. It's not just the 'blue coast vs red center' thing either, I could travel a few miles up the road and be into Maine or New Hampshire, and again, big hunting cultures there.

**DarkTraveler777**

Gotcha.

California has some strict firearms laws. However, you only need to drive about an hour or two outside of places like LA or San Francisco and you can find yourself in gun country.

But not every American has a gun, or prays to a gun shrine.

**Frazzled**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Gotcha.

California has some strict firearms laws. However, you only need to drive about an hour or two outside of places like LA or San Francisco and you can find yourself in gun country.

But not every American has a gun, or prays to a gun shrine.

Indeed, the vast majority of California could be considered country. Its just that the population is absolutely dwarfed by those two huge populations.

**Breotan**

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
But not every American has a gun, or prays to a gun shrine.

We have a name for people like them.

Spoiler:

**Mr Nobody**

That one guy in the last episode had a gun. didn't help against the military.

**Breotan**

Mr Nobody wrote:
That one guy in the last episode had a gun. didn't help against the military.

Hmmm... I think we need to consult with an Engineer on this.

Engineer wrote:How am I going to stop some big, mean mother-hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? The answer is a gun. And if that don't work, use more gun.