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Hi All, Haven't played in quite a while so I made this new list to see how it would fair. Just like to note that this is a fairly fun but still competitive listed that I have made and I was woundering what I could do to improve it. If it helps my main opponent is Tau and he is bringing a deathstar.

HQ
Farseer Shards of Anaris , Skyrunner

Troops
- 3x Windriders (1x SL, 2x TL SC)
- 3x Windriders (1x SL, 2x TL SC)

Elites
- 5x Wraithblades w/ GhostAxe and Forceshield
- Wave Serpent
- TL Brightlances, shuriken cannon
- Vector Engines, Star Engines
- 5x Wraithguard w/ Wraithcannons
- Wave Serpent
- TL Starcannons, shuriken cannon
- Vectored Engines

Fast Attack
- 1x Crimson Hunter
- 2x Brightlance, Exarch
- 1x Crimson Hunter
- 2x Brightlance, Exarch
- 1x Crimson Hunter
- 2x Brightlance, Exarch, Fighter Ace

Heavy Support
- 1x Wraithlord
- Ghostglaive, 2x Flamers
- 1x Wraithlord
- Ghostglaive, 2x Flamers, 2x Brightlance

Lord Of War
- Wraithknight
- 2x Heavy Wraithcannons, 1x scatter laser

Total: 1997

P.S. I was thinking maybe wraithfighters instead of crimson hunter i don't think he is bringing any flyers so yeah. Thanks in advance for the feedback

I'd replace Wraithblades by Wraithguard with D scythes, give the Serpents tl scatterlasers, underslung shuricannon, and holofield, drop the Wraithlords (since they are too slow and have too less damage output), drop the upgrades for the flyers, and take a stock WK.
This would allow you to add some more Jetbikes for more dakka.

You can only take one Crimson Hunter Exarch upgrade per Detachment, and since you're bringing three, take the Formation (Crimson Death I think it's called).

Why the scatter laser on the WK? There might be a good reason, but I'm not sold on it. The WK can only fire 2 weapons per turn anyways.

And holofields are always a good choice given you have some points. Better than the engine upgrades I would say.

Wraithblades look awesome and I would actually stick with 1 unit of axe/shields. It's nice to have a chunky melee unit that is 1) hard to wound vs. T6 2) 3+/5++ saves and 3) can swing pretty hard with those axes.

 clamclaw wrote:
Why the scatter laser on the WK? There might be a good reason, but I'm not sold on it. The WK can only fire 2 weapons per turn anyways.

Without resorting to debate, I will simply point out that the ITC FaQ ruled that Gargantuan Creatures can fire more than two weapons, which means that is the way it will be played in every major tournament in the United States.

That being said, if you bring D-Guard (Scythe or Bloop Gun), consider arming your Wraith Knight with a Ghost Glaive and Scattershield. Glaive Knights are absolute beasts.

The rest of your list looks just fine. Don't give Farsight/Shadowsun rear armor on your vehicles and you'll be fine.

If you trimmed the fat off this you could have

1x wraithhost formation
1x "min" CAD
1x crimson death formation

If you ran those formations and forgo ALL upgrades, simply removing every single upgrade except a) giving foot units wave serpents - wave serpents (wave serpents only need 10 pt underslung canon upgrade .. imho 120 pts is enough) b) getting 2 x min squads of scatter jet bikes and farseer on bike and c) giving the wraithlord a sword

If you JUST ran those formations like that I think you would be around 1900 pts ... you would be close to what you have and have some spare points for spirit stone of athaln (a must for farseers, the other gear you picked is not optimal) or guns on the wraithlords... played well such a list will slaughter most armies... the wraith formation gives every wraith battle focus (even the wraithlord and wraithknight!) and the spiritseers wraithsight ability is twin linking all your wraith units for free AND allows the wraithknight and wraithlord and axe wraithblades to re roll close combat misses.

If you go for broke and swap the CAD for a min windrider host you also get battle focus for all wraith AND GUARANTEED SIX INCH run with no roll (wraithlords moving 12 " per go and shooting!?!) Wraithguard leaving serpent and moving 12 " then shooting 12 " for a THIRTY inch threat range. Wow
Tactically a SIX inch run is golden it means you know EXACTLY where everything will get to which is superb on the battlefield

PS: scatter lasers are better on bikes. Mathematically SCanon are 1 or 2 % better vs some targets bit 25% worse vs others.. but that isn't why : the "why" is you need range 36" is a LOT better than 24" because you need to 2D6 hide after shooting. Also vs armour scatter lasers are always better.

 wuestenfux wrote:
I'd replace Wraithblades by Wraithguard with D scythes, give the Serpents tl scatterlasers, underslung shuricannon, and holofield, drop the Wraithlords (since they are too slow and have too less damage output), drop the upgrades for the flyers, and take a stock WK.
This would allow you to add some more Jetbikes for more dakka.

Thanks for the reply, I'm not overly keen on jetbikes there not my favourite unit I was just taking them for more of an objective holding unit than a shooting unit. I don't agree with the wraithlord not fitting the army I think they have some potential if the get into cc with the ghost glaives but perhaps I should drop the guns to get some more points for D-Scythes. Also I think I am going to add a 3rd unit of wraith and give them d scythes and cut out a wraithlord still keeping one for the wraithhost.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
CananMan, thank you for the indepth reply and I have worked out if I was to take the 3 formations (wraithhost, Windrider host and crimson death) I would be X points under with the minimum requirements plus 2 wave serpents. With the spare I got stones of anath'n or something for farseer and a singing spear I got star cannon on one wave serpent and then Brightlance on the other with a shuriken cannon. And lastly for the lone vyper I got a starcannon (just cause I had spare points and this could make him pay for himself.... Just maybe). Just a note i take the sun cannons becasue the ap2 so ignore armour and Str6 is easy kills for most troops and even elites on some occasions. Thank you for your reply the widrider host is definatly worth it if it increases move distance of wraith units if I have understood what you have said.

P.S I worked it out also buying D scythes but tbh I don't see it being worth it unless you or soemone can prove otherwise.(it was just barely under I think not enough to afford anything else)

d-scythes are excellent especially if you have 12 " move.

I have to say the reason they are so excellent is that they are "ignores cover" which means the only save anyone *ever* gets is their invul. no fnp either.

they are AMAZING against decurion formations and things like that

however I too did the list you mention and I can say it's cutting it REALLY fine.

and while you lose the SIX of death to be honest you WOUND on what every other wraitrhguard HITS on so it's a no brainer really, you are going to chuck insane amounts of wounds on whatever you hit

ConanMan wrote:
d-scythes are excellent especially if you have 12 " move.

I have to say the reason they are so excellent is that they are "ignores cover" which means the only save anyone *ever* gets is their invul. no fnp either.

they are AMAZING against decurion formations and things like that

however I too did the list you mention and I can say it's cutting it REALLY fine.

and while you lose the SIX of death to be honest you WOUND on what every other wraitrhguard HITS on so it's a no brainer really, you are going to chuck insane amounts of wounds on whatever you hit

Ok well this seems right I will switch it out and just use the bikes and vyper for killing troops and the d scythes for killing the deathstar, thats if I can ge close they have an insane running distance its like 3-4 D6 he said.

New Revided List 2000 Points Eldar Craftworlds

Wraithhost

- Spiritseer stock
- Wraithgaurd D-Scythes WS stock
- Wraithgaurd stock
- Wraithblades GhostAxe, WS stock
- Wraithlord Glaive Flamers
- Wraithknight Glaive/shield

Windrider host

- Farseer Skyrunner
- Warlock Skyrunner
- 3 Windriders stock
- 3 Windriders stock
- 3 Windriders stock
- Vyper Stock

- 1x Crimson Hunter
- 1x Crimson Hunter

Total Points:1872
At First I had crimson death in there because I like the idea of 3 crimson hunters but thinking about it my opponents dont have flyers so I don't need the crimson death. So just went for 2 meaning I can now host the farseer maybe get a few more warlocks and gets some upgrades going might go for a unit of vypers.... Maybe.

well if you did drop the glaive from the wraithlord don't feel too bad as you re-roll misses in close combat anyway if the spiritseer is alive, so all you really lose is the str9 vs str 8 and most of the time he is going to be wounding on 2's anyway, insta killing T4 still

if this is a friendly game he may let you take 2008 pts though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
if you keep your wind riders in reserve, and manage to get the d-scythes in range I think this is a very tough army to face. the crimson hunters are ridiculously good.

I would personally put the spiritseer in the wraithblades, roll for runes of battle to try to get protect or enhance but if you don;t just take the primaris and conceal them. also give him pshychic shriek. the farseer can either go with the warlock for a sort of ablative wound and hide at the back or join a windrider squad. the warlock will sort of roam about - if he is alive by turn 4 he will start to become useful, so make sure he is, if you decide to make the warlock stick it out with the farseer as a twosome then the warlock should cast conceal on themselves that gives them a 2+ jink. sadly the lock isn't a IC and cannot join another unit, and most of his "powers" will not buff him substantially, however he DOES have fleshbane, which can be useful ins some situations, can jink like hell, and can capture objectives at the end

ConanMan wrote:
well if you did drop the glaive from the wraithlord don't feel too bad as you re-roll misses in close combat anyway if the spiritseer is alive, so all you really lose is the str9 vs str 8 and most of the time he is going to be wounding on 2's anyway, insta killing T4 still

if this is a friendly game he may let you take 2008 pts though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
if you keep your wind riders in reserve, and manage to get the d-scythes in range I think this is a very tough army to face. the crimson hunters are ridiculously good.

I would personally put the spiritseer in the wraithblades, roll for runes of battle to try to get protect or enhance but if you don;t just take the primaris and conceal them. also give him pshychic shriek. the farseer can either go with the warlock for a sort of ablative wound and hide at the back or join a windrider squad. the warlock will sort of roam about - if he is alive by turn 4 he will start to become useful, so make sure he is, if you decide to make the warlock stick it out with the farseer as a twosome then the warlock should cast conceal on themselves that gives them a 2+ jink. sadly the lock isn't a IC and cannot join another unit, and most of his "powers" will not buff him substantially, however he DOES have fleshbane, which can be useful ins some situations, can jink like hell, and can capture objectives at the end

Ha yeah we'll it's with friends but there is still a competition haha, sorry i didn't see your reply I am doing this on my phone at the moment and it's very slow at loading and it didn't show up. While I agree that the crimson death is very strong I think the points could be better spent elsewhere. I think if I drop 1 I could still potentially kill the riptide in one turn. 8 str8 ap2 shots BS 5 now because there both exarch so hits on like 3 ish and then wounds on 2 most likely 6-7 wounds 5++ for riptide saves like 2 so maybe 1-2 wounds left and then killed by shots from JB or something similar. Does this sound right? Or am I off on my estimates? Thanks again for another reply ConanMan


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Omg I cant because to take only 2 would mean I would have to buy a HQ, 2 troops etc, damn, ln that case any sugestions? Just go with wraith host maybe?

I would put the blades on foot and put the wraithguard unit in the serpents. The wraithguard are a threat the turn they come out of the serpent unlike the wraithblades.

The blades will benefit from the auto 6 run and if you place the objective close to your deployment zone they will be on it or near it turn 1. With the auto 6 it should be easy to keep them in cover and with conceal they will get a 2+ cover save.

I will also consider adding a autarch for your reserve rolls, that way you can get your flyers in early and protect your bikes from alpha strikes.

CKO thanks for the reply, so I think the plan is wraithhost, with both Wraithgaurd in wave serpent. Then just CAD with 3 bikes 2 hunters and a farseer and now also an autarch for reserve rolls and with the leftover points I will upgrade characters like eg. Weapons on the wave serpents How does that sound?

It sounds good but you should show it to us so we can see the final product.

Ok will do, its quite late at the moment and I am on my phone so I will try and type it out tomorrow afternoon.

CAD

HQ
Farseer Skyrunner Singing Spear
Autarch Skyrunner Shards of Anaris, Scorpion chainsaw, banshee mask

Troops
JetBikes Stock
JetBikes Stock
JetBikes (1 has scatter laser the rest are stock)

Fast Attack
Crimson Hunter Exarch
crimson Hunter Exarch

Wraithhost

HQ
Spiritseer Stock

Troops/Elites
Wraithgaurd D-Scythes Wave Serpent (TL Starcannons, Shuriken cannon)
Wraithgaurd Stock Wave Serpent (TL Brightlances, Shuriken cannon)
Wraithblades Stock

Heavy Support
Wraithlord Flamers,Ghostglaive,

Lord Of War
Wraithknight, Ghostglaive and Scattershield

Total 1996

Logic for putting the starcannon on wave serpent, its 4 str6 shots for troops and elites, might change the SCs to BLs. Autarch is just gonna charge into cc with everything tau because his tau is pretty weak in that department and with shards of Anaris (armourbane and fleshbane and just everything about it like vauls work) I'm pretty confident plus no Overwatch cause of the banshee mask.

Unfortunately, the Autarch does not come equipped with a CC weapon. He only comes armed with a Shuriken Pistol. Therefore, because the Shard of Anaris replaces ONE of the Autarch's weapons, he can't be equipped the way you have him set up (the Fusion Pistol replaces the Shuriken Pistol, so doesn't help). I suggest finding 3 points to buy the Autarch a Scorpion Chainsword, then swapping THAT out for the Shard.

DCannon4Life wrote:
Unfortunately, the Autarch does not come equipped with a CC weapon. He only comes armed with a Shuriken Pistol. Therefore, because the Shard of Anaris replaces ONE of the Autarch's weapons, he can't be equipped the way you have him set up (the Fusion Pistol replaces the Shuriken Pistol, so doesn't help). I suggest finding 3 points to buy the Autarch a Scorpion Chainsword, then swapping THAT out for the Shard.

Omg I have never used shards before, so what you are saying is that the shard is like an accessory to the melee weapon so to begin with you need a melee weapon and then you add the shard to that.... Wait is that correct? Also should I even take the fusion pistol becasue then the points limit will be 6 over and I would much prefer it to be under even if my opponent doesn't mind to much cause I feel like a cheat haha.

Well...if you want to kit the Autarch out for killing Characters (which is what the Shard does, very well), I recommend this: Autarch [Swooping Hawk Wings, Banshee Mask, Scorpion Chainsword swapped out for Shard of Anaris]. Totals to 133 points. You could trade the Shuriken Pistol for the Shard (pistols are CC weapons), but then you don't get that extra attack for having two CC weapons.

The jetbike is a decent option (nothing wrong with being T4) as well.

Cheers!

Oh: When you're taking Artifacts or other wargear (weapons), you will usually be told whether or not the item replaces one (or both) of a character's weapons. Sometimes it replaces a specific one (as in the Fusion Pistol replacing the Shuriken Pistol).

Checkers wrote:
Fast Attack
Crimson Hunter Exarch
crimson Hunter Exarch

Again, only one Crimson Hunter in each Detachment can be upgraded to an Exarch .

 Quanar wrote:

Checkers wrote:
Fast Attack
Crimson Hunter Exarch
crimson Hunter Exarch

Again, only one Crimson Hunter in each Detachment can be upgraded to an Exarch .

Haha, I remembered but interpreted that it was only one exarch for the crimson death detachment but obviously bit so sorry for my many mistakes throughout the is thread. I will change it out from some weaponry of some sort.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DCannon4Life wrote:
Well...if you want to kit the Autarch out for killing Characters (which is what the Shard does, very well), I recommend this: Autarch [Swooping Hawk Wings, Banshee Mask, Scorpion Chainsword swapped out for Shard of Anaris]. Totals to 133 points. You could trade the Shuriken Pistol for the Shard (pistols are CC weapons), but then you don't get that extra attack for having two CC weapons.

The jetbike is a decent option (nothing wrong with being T4) as well.

Cheers!

Oh: When you're taking Artifacts or other wargear (weapons), you will usually be told whether or not the item replaces one (or both) of a character's weapons. Sometimes it replaces a specific one (as in the Fusion Pistol replacing the Shuriken Pistol).

Thanks for the reply, if I want him in cc on the jetbike he might do a little worse compared to the swooping hawk wings but if I want him far away, the jetbike hands down beat the wings and tbh I don't really know much about swooping hawk wings, might be something I look into might be better for what I'm looking to do with him. (However he still needs to survive to round 3 to serve his purpose).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Might I ask what to do with the 20 points from getting rid of the exarch from the list?