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As the title reads, my question is whether or not a Space Marine get 'adopted' by another Chapter. And no, I'm not talking in the "I'm your dad now" kind of way (although someone badly needs to write a fanfiction about that, with Asterion Moloc as your new stepdad), but more in the "we're from the same bloodline, we'll take you in" kind of way.


Now, to give it some more context, let's take a simple example:

Space Marine Chapter A is a regular, Codex-adherent Chapter of Ultramarines descent. At some point, the Chapter is called back to their homeworld as it lays under siege by a Tyranid Hive Fleet (or equally deadly Xenos). The Chapter commits its full strength to the conflict, deploying 10 full companies planet-side.

Remember that battle the Crimson Fists had with the Orks on Rynn's World? Imagine that, only about a hundred times worse.

Long story short, the Chapter ends up mauled worse than the Lamenters have ever been in their entire existence so far, but the Hive Fleet luckily feths off after being riddled with enough bullet holes to make delicious Tyranid Swiss Cheese.

So there's about 2, 3 marines left by the end, probably rather traumatized at the death of their entire Chapter. Also, their brothers' geneseed is all gone, having been 'nommed by the 'nids.

Now what happens next to these unfortunate fellows? They could always knock on the Deathwatch's door, but let's leave that option out for now.

Let's say the Ultramarines (or another Successor Chapter of theirs) passes by the planet as part of the relief effort. Can they take these marines in as their own, or is that completely impossible?

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
As the title reads, my question is whether or not a Space Marine get 'adopted' by another Chapter. And no, I'm not talking in the "I'm your dad now" kind of way (although someone badly needs to write a fanfiction about that, with Asterion Moloc as your new stepdad), but more in the "we're from the same bloodline, we'll take you in" kind of way.


Now, to give it some more context, let's take a simple example:

Space Marine Chapter A is a regular, Codex-adherent Chapter of Ultramarines descent. At some point, the Chapter is called back to their homeworld as it lays under siege by a Tyranid Hive Fleet (or equally deadly Xenos). The Chapter commits its full strength to the conflict, deploying 10 full companies planet-side.

Remember that battle the Crimson Fists had with the Orks on Rynn's World? Imagine that, only about a hundred times worse.

Long story short, the Chapter ends up mauled worse than the Lamenters have ever been in their entire existence so far, but the Hive Fleet luckily feths off after being riddled with enough bullet holes to make delicious Tyranid Swiss Cheese.

So there's about 2, 3 marines left by the end, probably rather traumatized at the death of their entire Chapter. Also, their brothers' geneseed is all gone, having been 'nommed by the 'nids.

Now what happens next to these unfortunate fellows? They could always knock on the Deathwatch's door, but let's leave that option out for now.

Let's say the Ultramarines (or another Successor Chapter of theirs) passes by the planet as part of the relief effort. Can they take these marines in as their own, or is that completely impossible?

Not the best lore citation for this as we all know the story of the Tyrant but, pretty sure the Tiger claws were absorbed.

For loyalists, I am pretty sure the UM or at least the Dark Angels would do this.

I may be pulling this out of thin air, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that chapters, who have been mostly destroyed and are beyond recovery, usually send their last remaining members into the Eye of Terror to fight out their last days.

The Tiger Claws were absorbed into their progenitor's chapter, the Astral Claws. However, I imagine many chapters would much rather die in battle than have themselves rebranded as a different chapter. Especially if there are only 2 or 3 left. "Honor before Reason" is seen as a virtue by many chapters.

jareddm wrote:
The Tiger Claws were absorbed into their progenitor's chapter, the Astral Claws. However, I imagine many chapters would much rather die in battle than have themselves rebranded as a different chapter. Especially if there are only 2 or 3 left. "Honor before Reason" is seen as a virtue by many chapters.

I am in agreeance but, to add to that. Some chaptermasters would force their chapter to survive or instill that into the brothers before they die. IE: Pedro Kantor.

Depending on the chapter and the survivors, they may rejoin the progenitor chapter. If that makes sense? For an example, a UM successor chapter rejoining the Ultramarines. They carry their traditions on still, still follow the codex obviously, and maybe they just put the old chapter logo into their personal heraldry. This is their way of carrying on the chapter, while putting the Primarch first.

Yes, and I'd consider it a fairly standard thing to do, for example in the salamanders book there is a black dragon chapter marine, he is temporarily absorbed into the chapter until he can be returned to his own, the codex should make this kind of thing fairly easy.

 Stormwall wrote:

I am in agreeance but, to add to that. Some chaptermasters would force their chapter to survive or instill that into the brothers before they die. IE: Pedro Kantor.

Depending on the chapter and the survivors, they may rejoin the progenitor chapter. If that makes sense? For an example, a UM successor chapter rejoining the Ultramarines. They carry their traditions on still, still follow the codex obviously, and maybe they just put the old chapter logo into their personal heraldry. This is their way of carrying on the chapter, while putting the Primarch first.

This depends greatly on the relationship the chapter had with their progenitor. There are a number of Ultramarine successors who are too culturally deviant to be accepted, regardless of how codex-adherent they are. The Crimson Fists were an extremely well respected chapter and their survivors would have been welcomed with open arms by many chapters, had they been forced to flee from Rynn's World.

 Formosa wrote:
Yes, and I'd consider it a fairly standard thing to do, for example in the salamanders book there is a black dragon chapter marine, he is temporarily absorbed into the chapter until he can be returned to his own, the codex should make this kind of thing fairly easy.

The difference is the Black Dragons still existed as a chapter.

jareddm wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

I am in agreeance but, to add to that. Some chaptermasters would force their chapter to survive or instill that into the brothers before they die. IE: Pedro Kantor.

Depending on the chapter and the survivors, they may rejoin the progenitor chapter. If that makes sense? For an example, a UM successor chapter rejoining the Ultramarines. They carry their traditions on still, still follow the codex obviously, and maybe they just put the old chapter logo into their personal heraldry. This is their way of carrying on the chapter, while putting the Primarch first.

This depends greatly on the relationship the chapter had with their progenitor. There are a number of Ultramarine successors who are too culturally deviant to be accepted, regardless of how codex-adherent they are. The Crimson Fists were an extremely well respected chapter and their survivors would have been welcomed with open arms by many chapters, had they been forced to flee from Rynn's World.

 Formosa wrote:
Yes, and I'd consider it a fairly standard thing to do, for example in the salamanders book there is a black dragon chapter marine, he is temporarily absorbed into the chapter until he can be returned to his own, the codex should make this kind of thing fairly easy.

The difference is the Black Dragons still existed as a chapter.

That's fine however, as there are chapters like the Sons of Gulliman, Sons of Orar, I would see no issue with them. When I typed my post, I figured that would have not needed to have been mentioned as it is common sense some chapters wouldn't be wanted. For instance, the Mortifactors wouldn't be taken back into the fold of the main UM.

 Stormwall wrote:

That's fine however, as there are chapters like the Sons of Gulliman, Sons of Orar, I would see no issue with them. When I typed my post, I figured that would have not needed to have been mentioned as it is common sense some chapters wouldn't be wanted. For instance, the Mortifactors wouldn't be taken back into the fold of the main UM.

I'm glad you mentioned the Mortifactors. We're on the same page.

jareddm wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

That's fine however, as there are chapters like the Sons of Gulliman, Sons of Orar, I would see no issue with them. When I typed my post, I figured that would have not needed to have been mentioned as it is common sense some chapters wouldn't be wanted. For instance, the Mortifactors wouldn't be taken back into the fold of the main UM.

I'm glad you mentioned the Mortifactors. We're on the same page.

Hurr, we lieks skulls. I'm sorry, I had to.

It all depends, it's certainly possible but would the leftover marines wan't to abandon their own chapter rather than go to the EoT and fight, would they be capable of assimilating with a progenitor who may be very different and would the progenitor chapter allow it

I think it's pretty likely most chapters would accept a marine who is relatively similar to their own culture purely because marines are valuable and a survivor of any conflict hard enough to essentially wipe a chapter of the map is likely to be now an expert on whatever it was screwed his buddies over

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone

The Tiger Claws are not the best of examples I think, as Chaos Space Marines (or Renegades in league with Chaos) are more likely to just hop to the next warband who offers them enough (if they don't end up on the receiving end of a hostile takeover).

As for the Loyalists, I guess we can say there are three options:

1) The remaining Marines spend their last days fighting every enemy of the Imperium they can, often travelling to the Eye of Terror to do so.

2) The Chapter is rebuilt, with the survivors becoming its senior officers.

3) The remaining Marines are absorbed by their Founding Chapter, or in rare cases, a Successor Chapter.

Now that raises another question; what of those poor Space Marines who don't know who their Founding Chapter is? They have practically no chance of getting absorbed back into the First Founding Chapter they were created from.

For example, let's say there's a Tyranid invasion on this backwater planet, where Space Marine Chapter B of Unknown Founding was sent to to protect its inhabitants. However, due to Warp-fethery, the Chapter arrives rather late to the party and realizes it's in for a losing battle. Its ground forces are evacuated, while the civilians are left for the 'nids, as the commanders believe it better to sacrifice a few thousand humans rather than losing an entire Chapter trying to rescue the former.

One Sergeant decides his commanders are cowards and stays behind to rescue as many of the civilians he can together with his Combat squad (so, 4-5 men tops). Joke's on his commanders, as the Tyranid fleet thinks Imperial ships are delicious and devours them whole, leaving the one squad that stayed behind the only survivors of the Chapter.

Then, the Salamanders and some other Chapters arrive in the system, purging the Xenos from the planet. The Salamanders find the left-behind squad defending a group of civilians with all their might, and are rather impressed by the tale of their selfless sacrifice to save the planet's inhabitants.

Can the Salamanders then offer said Marines a place in their ranks? Or would said scenario never even occur, due to the cultural differences between them (and the gene-seed not being a match either)?

I think it depends on the quality of writing/situation. The Sallies may do that. I could see some successors of Dorn doing that that as well. Also weakened chapters as well.

Another thought is 4-5 Marines would be invaluable to an Inquistor's retinue if discovered. Ie: Not deathwatch but, bodyguards.

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far, everyone

The Tiger Claws are not the best of examples I think, as Chaos Space Marines (or Renegades in league with Chaos) are more likely to just hop to the next warband who offers them enough (if they don't end up on the receiving end of a hostile takeover).

Neither the Tiger Claws, nor the Astral Claws were renegades when the former was absorbed into the latter.

1) The remaining Marines spend their last days fighting every enemy of the Imperium they can, often travelling to the Eye of Terror to do so.

2) The Chapter is rebuilt, with the survivors becoming its senior officers.

3) The remaining Marines are absorbed by their Founding Chapter, or in rare cases, a Successor Chapter.

Now that raises another question; what of those poor Space Marines who don't know who their Founding Chapter is? They have practically no chance of getting absorbed back into the First Founding Chapter they were created from.

Then they only have options 1 and 2 available to them. Simple as that.

For example, let's say there's a Tyranid invasion on this backwater planet, where Space Marine Chapter B of Unknown Founding was sent to to protect its inhabitants. However, due to Warp-fethery, the Chapter arrives rather late to the party and realizes it's in for a losing battle. Its ground forces are evacuated, while the civilians are left for the 'nids, as the commanders believe it better to sacrifice a few thousand humans rather than losing an entire Chapter trying to rescue the former.

One Sergeant decides his commanders are cowards and stays behind to rescue as many of the civilians he can together with his Combat squad (so, 4-5 men tops). Joke's on his commanders, as the Tyranid fleet thinks Imperial ships are delicious and devours them whole, leaving the one squad that stayed behind the only survivors of the Chapter.

Then, the Salamanders and some other Chapters arrive in the system, purging the Xenos from the planet. The Salamanders find the left-behind squad defending a group of civilians with all their might, and are rather impressed by the tale of their selfless sacrifice to save the planet's inhabitants.

Can the Salamanders then offer said Marines a place in their ranks? Or would said scenario never even occur, due to the cultural differences between them (and the gene-seed not being a match either)?

While he might operate with the Salamanders for a time, I imagine he would eventually come to the understanding that he would never be a Salamander and with no way of rebuilding the chapter without geneseed stores, he would simply find the biggest enemy of the Imperium he could find and make sure it died before he did. Or at that point, the Black Shield option becomes much more attractive.

jareddm wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:

I am in agreeance but, to add to that. Some chaptermasters would force their chapter to survive or instill that into the brothers before they die. IE: Pedro Kantor.

Depending on the chapter and the survivors, they may rejoin the progenitor chapter. If that makes sense? For an example, a UM successor chapter rejoining the Ultramarines. They carry their traditions on still, still follow the codex obviously, and maybe they just put the old chapter logo into their personal heraldry. This is their way of carrying on the chapter, while putting the Primarch first.

This depends greatly on the relationship the chapter had with their progenitor. There are a number of Ultramarine successors who are too culturally deviant to be accepted, regardless of how codex-adherent they are. The Crimson Fists were an extremely well respected chapter and their survivors would have been welcomed with open arms by many chapters, had they been forced to flee from Rynn's World.

 Formosa wrote:
Yes, and I'd consider it a fairly standard thing to do, for example in the salamanders book there is a black dragon chapter marine, he is temporarily absorbed into the chapter until he can be returned to his own, the codex should make this kind of thing fairly easy.

The difference is the Black Dragons still existed as a chapter.

I disagree slightly, I think it shows clear intent, if they are willing to accept another chapters marines into the fold, would they not include a squad, a company?

Company level I doubt personally, but a few here and there, also while we're talking mortifactors, I don't think they are actually Ultramarines myself, we know the ultras took on remnants (or are at least rumoured to) from one of the lost legions, then when the second founding happened it's possible that some of the gene seed from the lost legion passed down to one of these chapters, this could go a long way to explain why some of the ultramarine successors are so divergent from what others would consider there primogenitors, 10k years later and no one would have the slightest idea or even conceive that some of these chapter don't use ultramarine gene seed.

Or it could all be nonsense haha

I dunno about that. Mortificators background is clearly explained in the Ventris (or some other UM novel.)

I know you have said it's off the table, but most likely in this scenario the first point of call would be the Deathwatch. Though, who's to say they would make the cut, marines can fail the training process.

It would be interesting if a marine would go off and work for an inquisitor directly in his close retinue? I only say this because to maintain a marine and more so his equipment takes a lot! That's why they have so many chapter serfs. Sure Inquisitors can attain such equipment, but would other inquisitors be happy about it? Also, any hint of a radical nature would most surely ensure the inquisitors instantaneous death, a psychotic living breathing righteous war machine will not stand for it, making them a risk. Not to mention the size of them would make more covert actions difficult, an Inquisitor could not hope to go unnoticed in the crowds when he has an 8ft brooding pet walking alongside them, with or without armour.

I can imagine chapters with good ties to one another would allow a marine to move to their ranks, maybe not as part of the chapter as such, and still in their original chapters colours to maintain honour. Especially if the adoptive chapter are launching a revenge campaign against the enemy that caused the destruction. The marine(s) would be asset to such a chapter also, being available to provide specific intelligence about the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if it was a company or even a demi company left, they would try to rebuild. It's established in the fluff that certain chapters have come back from such losses before, with many centuries without combat mind to facilitate the rebuilding.

 Formosa wrote:

I disagree slightly, I think it shows clear intent, if they are willing to accept another chapters marines into the fold, would they not include a squad, a company?

Company level I doubt personally, but a few here and there, also while we're talking mortifactors, I don't think they are actually Ultramarines myself, we know the ultras took on remnants (or are at least rumoured to) from one of the lost legions, then when the second founding happened it's possible that some of the gene seed from the lost legion passed down to one of these chapters, this could go a long way to explain why some of the ultramarine successors are so divergent from what others would consider there primogenitors, 10k years later and no one would have the slightest idea or even conceive that some of these chapter don't use ultramarine gene seed.

Or it could all be nonsense haha

But it doesn't show intent. It shows intent to return a marine to his chapter that's still around. It does not show stripping a marine of their old chapter's colors and heraldry to make them one of your own.

As for the lost legion absorption, when the author of said rumor has flat out said that it's false, it's false. Let it die. We already see divergence when looking at various chapters when they were still part of the Ultramarine legion during the Great Crusade simply based on the battles they fought and the kinds of individuals they recruited. Lost Legion geneseed is not necessary.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I know you have said it's off the table, but most likely in this scenario the first point of call would be the Deathwatch. Though, who's to say they would make the cut, marines can fail the training process.

It would be interesting if a marine would go off and work for an inquisitor directly in his close retinue? I only say this because to maintain a marine and more so his equipment takes a lot! That's why they have so many chapter serfs. Sure Inquisitors can attain such equipment, but would other inquisitors be happy about it? Also, any hint of a radical nature would most surely ensure the inquisitors instantaneous death, a psychotic living breathing righteous war machine will not stand for it, making them a risk. Not to mention the size of them would make more covert actions difficult, an Inquisitor could not hope to go unnoticed in the crowds when he has an 8ft brooding pet walking alongside them, with or without armour.

I can imagine chapters with good ties to one another would allow a marine to move to their ranks, maybe not as part of the chapter as such, and still in their original chapters colours to maintain honour. Especially if the adoptive chapter are launching a revenge campaign against the enemy that caused the destruction. The marine(s) would be asset to such a chapter also, being available to provide specific intelligence about the enemy.

Pretty sure it has been done before. I mean if certain corrupt people can get them then surely the Inquistion can.

I'll try to get citation. Away from pc atm.

Just because a chapter might not adopt a marine, it does not mean they might not let a squad of survivors fight alongside them and even incorporate them into their command structure, formally or informally.

I can imagine that if the rest of the chapter were wiped out, a Marines Errant squad would certainly be welcome to fight alongside the Eagle Warriors, their parent chapter. IF they then performed honourably alongside their new chapter, their geneseed might even be used to create new Eagle Warriors. If they died dishonourably, or failed a mission, their geneseed would probably be abandoned.

That is my take on it.

 Stormwall wrote:
I think it depends on the quality of writing/situation. The Sallies may do that. I could see some successors of Dorn doing that that as well. Also weakened chapters as well.

Another thought is 4-5 Marines would be invaluable to an Inquistor's retinue if discovered. Ie: Not deathwatch but, bodyguards.

An inquisitor, Rouge trader, or any rich and powerful organisation would pay serious cash to get the loyalty of 5 Marines, its the score of a lifetime

 jhe90 wrote:

 Stormwall wrote:
I think it depends on the quality of writing/situation. The Sallies may do that. I could see some successors of Dorn doing that that as well. Also weakened chapters as well.

Another thought is 4-5 Marines would be invaluable to an Inquistor's retinue if discovered. Ie: Not deathwatch but, bodyguards.

An inquisitor, Rouge trader, or any rich and powerful organisation would pay serious cash to get the loyalty of 5 Marines, its the score of a lifetime

I still don't remember what book, novella or short it was with the physic null/Assassin who kills one that had been purchased and created for a corrupt Planetary governor.

Ragnar books has one in the employ of someone who hitred out to the opposing navigator house.

There definitely not working on inquisition approved orders.
Face changing temple

The IoM is large and anything can happen. IIRC the Blood Angels once got so smashed up that they had to ask their successors for aid in the form of geneseed and recruits.

jareddm wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

I disagree slightly, I think it shows clear intent, if they are willing to accept another chapters marines into the fold, would they not include a squad, a company?

Company level I doubt personally, but a few here and there, also while we're talking mortifactors, I don't think they are actually Ultramarines myself, we know the ultras took on remnants (or are at least rumoured to) from one of the lost legions, then when the second founding happened it's possible that some of the gene seed from the lost legion passed down to one of these chapters, this could go a long way to explain why some of the ultramarine successors are so divergent from what others would consider there primogenitors, 10k years later and no one would have the slightest idea or even conceive that some of these chapter don't use ultramarine gene seed.

Or it could all be nonsense haha

But it doesn't show intent. It shows intent to return a marine to his chapter that's still around. It does not show stripping a marine of their old chapter's colors and heraldry to make them one of your own.

As for the lost legion absorption, when the author of said rumor has flat out said that it's false, it's false. Let it die. We already see divergence when looking at various chapters when they were still part of the Ultramarine legion during the Great Crusade simply based on the battles they fought and the kinds of individuals they recruited. Lost Legion geneseed is not necessary.

Sorry bud, but I'm gonna need proof of that, I've never heard of the author saying that, I freely admit what I'm saying is conjecture, based on the novels, but what your saying needs a citation or its just hear say (like the apocryphal fantasy and 40k universe not being connected fella from GW) and I'll just dismiss it as head canon like my own conjecture.

Spetulhu wrote:
The IoM is large and anything can happen. IIRC the Blood Angels once got so smashed up that they had to ask their successors for aid in the form of geneseed and recruits.

Yes, I seem to remember that as well. It's rather recent, when Baal got attacked by the Nids, right?

Spetulhu wrote:
The IoM is large and anything can happen. IIRC the Blood Angels once got so smashed up that they had to ask their successors for aid in the form of geneseed and recruits.

That was mostly due to poor writing, though. I mean, the whole reason that the BAngels supposedly needed more geneseed was because of the Civil War they had, but they only sent one company to deal with the Arkio insurrection. Arkio had a Company of Marines on his side, as well (though it was smaller than usual, due to a recent Crusade without getting reinforcements), but that still only means (at most) losing the equivalent of 150-200 Marines in the Civil War, which would have left at least 600 Marines left in the BAngels - more than acceptable numbers (600 because BAngels are almost always undermanned, according to the Codex) for the Chapter to recover.

These is a black library novel(Blood & Fire. Must say I am a big fan of Helsreach and this novel) where Black Templar Grimaldus forces another Imperial Fists descendants, Celestial Lions, to rebuild their chapter(even thought they lost over 900 marines and whole chapter command- There is only few sergeants remaining). This in itself wouldn`t matter, but if I remember correctly, he(with Helbrechts blessing) gives Celestial Lions few apotecharies and other specialist, few old power armors, and sends them back to their home planet to rebuilt. Now, I am not sure(can`t remember) if these Black Templars are supposed to become part of Celesital Lions or not, but I found that story quite interesting.

 Formosa wrote:

jareddm wrote:

But it doesn't show intent. It shows intent to return a marine to his chapter that's still around. It does not show stripping a marine of their old chapter's colors and heraldry to make them one of your own.

As for the lost legion absorption, when the author of said rumor has flat out said that it's false, it's false. Let it die. We already see divergence when looking at various chapters when they were still part of the Ultramarine legion during the Great Crusade simply based on the battles they fought and the kinds of individuals they recruited. Lost Legion geneseed is not necessary.

Sorry bud, but I'm gonna need proof of that, I've never heard of the author saying that, I freely admit what I'm saying is conjecture, based on the novels, but what your saying needs a citation or its just hear say (like the apocryphal fantasy and 40k universe not being connected fella from GW) and I'll just dismiss it as head canon like my own conjecture.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287453-the-traitor-primarch-and-the-missing-legions/?p=3620537
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211829-ultramarines-references-in-the-horus-heresy-series/page-2#entry2526272
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?366392-Were-the-remnants-of-the-two-lost-legions-(II-and-XIX)-folded-into-the-Ultramarines&p=6666435&viewfull=1#post6666435

How's that?

 crnaguja wrote:
These is a black library novel(Blood & Fire. Must say I am a big fan of Helsreach and this novel) where Black Templar Grimaldus forces another Imperial Fists descendants, Celestial Lions, to rebuild their chapter(even thought they lost over 900 marines and whole chapter command- There is only few sergeants remaining). This in itself wouldn`t matter, but if I remember correctly, he(with Helbrechts blessing) gives Celestial Lions few apotecharies and other specialist, few old power armors, and sends them back to their home planet to rebuilt. Now, I am not sure(can`t remember) if these Black Templars are supposed to become part of Celesital Lions or not, but I found that story quite interesting.

The Black Templars who go with the Lions to Elysium are only meant to be temporary as the chapter will clearly need help rebuilding, they aren't made members of the Celestial Lions