Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

im writing some fluff on another thread, some may have seen it in dakka Fiction.

im wondering whats the rough proven strength of Armour and firepower of battle barges, strike cruisers and the fleets lighter escorts frigates etc.
i know the whole tougher than a battleship/cruiser of same size but just want to make sure im not making them into invincible gods of death

Ie would a Battlebarge facing down 4 ork cruizers on its own be sane etc.,
what kind of firepower do they have vs other xeno class's of ships and such?

just seems all rather vague so are there any more solid facts abut them?

As I recall, SM warships are actually less powerful than equivalent ships from the main Imperial Navy - they're more specialised and excel in close-quarters fighting compared to a regular Imperial cruiser or battleship, but overall they're a little TOO specialised to fight the same kind of engagements the Navy does. The primary purpose of a battle-barge or SM cruiser, after all, is to get the Astartes aboard to their designated battleground and enable them to make planetfall even in the presence of a large enemy fleet, not to actually FIGHT said fleet for longer than is necessary.

Of course, it's been approximately 1,000,000 years since I read any Battlefleet Gothic fluff, so a pinch of salt is definitely necessary here.

 Zarjaz! wrote:
As I recall, SM warships are actually less powerful than equivalent ships from the main Imperial Navy - they're more specialised and excel in close-quarters fighting compared to a regular Imperial cruiser or battleship, but overall they're a little TOO specialised to fight the same kind of engagements the Navy does. The primary purpose of a battle-barge or SM cruiser, after all, is to get the Astartes aboard to their designated battleground and enable them to make planetfall even in the presence of a large enemy fleet, not to actually FIGHT said fleet for longer than is necessary.

Of course, it's been approximately 1,000,000 years since I read any Battlefleet Gothic fluff, so a pinch of salt is definitely necessary here.

A in universe analysis by the Imperial Navy in the Battle Fleet Gothic confirmed that whilst the Astartes may be lacking in some small areas in a fleet action they will usually dictate the terms of the engagement to their advantage and at close range are much harder hitting and survivable. Combine that with the devastating boarding ability against "mortals" and they will. IIRC the words used - be a terror to fight.

Some fleet based chapters (and surprise surprise the Space Wolves) have large and flexible fleets - which can include more conventional warships especially if they are very old ships. Of course the Space Wolves have truly huge numbers - 150-200 ships..............

Space Marine capital ships are designed to deliver their payload of troops to a planetary surface, where the marines will achieve their objective, then extract back to the Capital ship and withdraw. As such they are tough when compared to comparable warships, fast when compared to comparable warships, and their weapons are shorter ranged. Their weapons are also effective against fixed fortifications on a surface or in orbit, but can be used quite effectively against any ship that gets too close, combined with the ability to teleport to enemy ships, and deliver boarding parties via thunderhawks makes the marine ships quite deadly.

Any ship that can both outrange the marine ship, and has the speed to keep at range will be able to beat down the marine ship over time, whether that happens quickly enough will determine whether the marines can achieve their objectives or not.

Marine escort ships are somewhat superior to imperial equivalents, which makes up somewhat for their lesser numbers, but they suffer from the same general limitations as the rest of the Marine fleet of shorter range, and escorts are still tin cans compared to capital ships in terms of surviveability.

As to the original question.

Ork Kroozers want to get in close, both because thats the orky way, and they have comparitively short range, and ork ships are quite fast (big red go fasta button on the dashboard). a marine battlebarge could certainly take 1 Kroozer, probably take 2, 3 would be a stretch, and 4 would be a tough fight, and would probably end with one or more kroozers ramming the barge for a suitably orky hand to hand fght! and would ultimately depend on how effective the ork shooting was, how fast they could get ther, and how many marines were on the barge at the time. if the orks boarded before the marines deployed to a planetary surface it would probably be a massacre, if deploying afer, also a massacre just the other way!

Keep in mind, as BFG specified, Marine ships are actually very powerful in boarding actions even without actual Space Marines aboard. Their serf crewmen are very well trained and equipped.

In the BFG game, Space Marine capital ships are better armored than Imperial vessels(having an armor of 6+ all around instead of 6+ prow and 5+ elsewhere)

They also have very devastating short range weaponry as well as launch bays and torpedo tubes.

Imperial ships tend to have longer ranges on their weapons with more focus on torpedoes. and only purpose built carrier ships have launch bats.


A Battlebarge facing down 4 kroozers would be perfectly sane, although the Orks might be disadvantaged

Bombardment Cannons are one of the more devastating weapons in BFG. They ignore armor values like Lances and cause critical hits on a 4+, disadvantage being the number of shots is determined like weapon batteries and their short range.

This is in addition to the ship having torpedoes and Thunderhawks(Annhilators and Regular). And being Space Marines they have good leadership to boot.

Thanks, my writing is accurate enough for me to be happy then.

Only task is weathering the fire til your in range to use them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Zarjaz! wrote:
As I recall, SM warships are actually less powerful than equivalent ships from the main Imperial Navy - they're more specialised and excel in close-quarters fighting compared to a regular Imperial cruiser or battleship, but overall they're a little TOO specialised to fight the same kind of engagements the Navy does. The primary purpose of a battle-barge or SM cruiser, after all, is to get the Astartes aboard to their designated battleground and enable them to make planetfall even in the presence of a large enemy fleet, not to actually FIGHT said fleet for longer than is necessary.

Of course, it's been approximately 1,000,000 years since I read any Battlefleet Gothic fluff, so a pinch of salt is definitely necessary here.

A in universe analysis by the Imperial Navy in the Battle Fleet Gothic confirmed that whilst the Astartes may be lacking in some small areas in a fleet action they will usually dictate the terms of the engagement to their advantage and at close range are much harder hitting and survivable. Combine that with the devastating boarding ability against "mortals" and they will. IIRC the words used - be a terror to fight.

Some fleet based chapters (and surprise surprise the Space Wolves) have large and flexible fleets - which can include more conventional warships especially if they are very old ships. Of course the Space Wolves have truly huge numbers - 150-200 ships..............

In other words, the Imperium has learned precisely nothing from the Horus Heresy when it comes to the Astartes having proper naval capabilities.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarifications!

 Zarjaz! wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Zarjaz! wrote:
As I recall, SM warships are actually less powerful than equivalent ships from the main Imperial Navy - they're more specialised and excel in close-quarters fighting compared to a regular Imperial cruiser or battleship, but overall they're a little TOO specialised to fight the same kind of engagements the Navy does. The primary purpose of a battle-barge or SM cruiser, after all, is to get the Astartes aboard to their designated battleground and enable them to make planetfall even in the presence of a large enemy fleet, not to actually FIGHT said fleet for longer than is necessary.

Of course, it's been approximately 1,000,000 years since I read any Battlefleet Gothic fluff, so a pinch of salt is definitely necessary here.

A in universe analysis by the Imperial Navy in the Battle Fleet Gothic confirmed that whilst the Astartes may be lacking in some small areas in a fleet action they will usually dictate the terms of the engagement to their advantage and at close range are much harder hitting and survivable. Combine that with the devastating boarding ability against "mortals" and they will. IIRC the words used - be a terror to fight.

Some fleet based chapters (and surprise surprise the Space Wolves) have large and flexible fleets - which can include more conventional warships especially if they are very old ships. Of course the Space Wolves have truly huge numbers - 150-200 ships..............

In other words, the Imperium has learned precisely nothing from the Horus Heresy when it comes to the Astartes having proper naval capabilities.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarifications!

Space Marine Chapters used to have direct command over massive fleets of Imperial Navy Void ships. Compared to 30k SM fleets, 40k SM fleets are a bunch of rowboats with pistols in the glove compartment.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Zarjaz! wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Zarjaz! wrote:
As I recall, SM warships are actually less powerful than equivalent ships from the main Imperial Navy - they're more specialised and excel in close-quarters fighting compared to a regular Imperial cruiser or battleship, but overall they're a little TOO specialised to fight the same kind of engagements the Navy does. The primary purpose of a battle-barge or SM cruiser, after all, is to get the Astartes aboard to their designated battleground and enable them to make planetfall even in the presence of a large enemy fleet, not to actually FIGHT said fleet for longer than is necessary.

Of course, it's been approximately 1,000,000 years since I read any Battlefleet Gothic fluff, so a pinch of salt is definitely necessary here.

A in universe analysis by the Imperial Navy in the Battle Fleet Gothic confirmed that whilst the Astartes may be lacking in some small areas in a fleet action they will usually dictate the terms of the engagement to their advantage and at close range are much harder hitting and survivable. Combine that with the devastating boarding ability against "mortals" and they will. IIRC the words used - be a terror to fight.

Some fleet based chapters (and surprise surprise the Space Wolves) have large and flexible fleets - which can include more conventional warships especially if they are very old ships. Of course the Space Wolves have truly huge numbers - 150-200 ships..............

In other words, the Imperium has learned precisely nothing from the Horus Heresy when it comes to the Astartes having proper naval capabilities.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarifications!

Space Marine Chapters used to have direct command over massive fleets of Imperial Navy Void ships. Compared to 30k SM fleets, 40k SM fleets are a bunch of rowboats with pistols in the glove compartment.

True the old gloriana class are long gone. They where truely massive battleships some 20km long or such. Primarchs flagships.

Few relics still remain, eternal crusader, some spacewolf ships and others still are legion era ships in there construction dates. The phalanx is crusade era.
Not all destroyed.

the arrival of a single Strike Cruiser is usually enough to quell a rebellious planet, the same cannot be said of an Imperial Navy Cruiser

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Strike_Cruiser

 Grey Templar wrote:
In the BFG game, Space Marine capital ships are better armored than Imperial vessels(having an armor of 6+ all around instead of 6+ prow and 5+ elsewhere)

They also have very devastating short range weaponry as well as launch bays and torpedo tubes.

Imperial ships tend to have longer ranges on their weapons with more focus on torpedoes. and only purpose built carrier ships have launch bats.


A Battlebarge facing down 4 kroozers would be perfectly sane, although the Orks might be disadvantaged

Bombardment Cannons are one of the more devastating weapons in BFG. They ignore armor values like Lances and cause critical hits on a 4+, disadvantage being the number of shots is determined like weapon batteries and their short range.

This is in addition to the ship having torpedoes and Thunderhawks(Annhilators and Regular). And being Space Marines they have good leadership to boot.

Although you use the weapon battery table, so you may not get many hits in.

Fluffwise Space marine ships are blockade breaker ships, punch through the enemy line to deploy your army on the planet and do as much damage as possible and then retreat or give support to your deployed army.
But this also depends on the chapter as some chapter have only imperial style ships while others have a mix of ship types.