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If you are not using D-scythes, scatterbikes, or Wraithknights, then there's not a whole lot else to cry super cheese over.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... some people like Elves. It's their go-to choice in any setting or game where they're an option, or have a close approximation. A totally-new 40K player who's played RPGs or video games or fantasy-based game could ask "Ok, so, who are the elves?". His/her friends will say "There's two kinds, good and bad." And the new player has a 50/50 chance of picking CWE.

Harlequins look cool, they have interesting fluff, they are Space Elves on speed. They have a unit called a Death Jester, ffs. How Metal is that?

I too have a thing for elves. : D

Also for playing female characters/armies. And Eldar are one of only a few armies in the game which have a significant number of female minis.

Come up with some sort of compromise with the gaming group that's giving grief -voluntarily increase points values for your units or impose stat decreases. Press the point that you're willing to do that as point blank being unable to use units you've paid for is unfair and unsporting of them. If they refuse to agree to a compromise with you then you know they're being unreasonable so find a different group. And above all else remember in choosing the force you bring to the table you've done nothing that deserves abuse from other players. You didn't write the new codex, you didn't make scatterbikes op'd to increase sales, so by all means compromise but don't take guff. Assuming this, any player should be able to play with the models they like -I consider it against the spirit of gaming to pointblank ban certain units or armies.

The undesirable alternative is to weather the (s**t) storm until things hopefully get balanced out in the next codex.

Well. I won't lie, I do have a bit of a thing for elves in whatever game I play, so that was a factor. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. Where I live in Tenn. doesnt have many different options by way of stores to play at, so I think I'll trtyoffering letting people play my army if they'd rather. I'm glad to know there is actually a difference to most people between "fair" Eldar and "broken" Eldar.

OrderofCegorach wrote:
Well. I won't lie, I do have a bit of a thing for elves in whatever game I play, so that was a factor. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. Where I live in Tenn. doesnt have many different options by way of stores to play at, so I think I'll trtyoffering letting people play my army if they'd rather. I'm glad to know there is actually a difference to most people between "fair" Eldar and "broken" Eldar.

I would have chimed in earlier, but people have already offered some great advice. I would suggest trying to get more Aspect Warrior units, preferably three. They will act as an excellent force multiplier for your army, and will get you into the real "meat" of how the Eldar fight. You might also consider picking up some Dark Eldar as well, as they will offer excellent support for your Harlequins.

Ultimately, it's your army; you have just as much of a right as anyone to play it how you want. That may mean shifting scenes, or going to a different store. Terms like "WAAC" and "TFG" pertain more to attitude more than how you build your list. If aced a Tau player that, like you, was fairly new to the game. He had picked up a Riptide, and decided to get the two Forge World variants as well. Then he combined them into one army: three at 1750 points, two at 1500 points (the Forge World ones). Do you know why I didn't turn him down fro a game or tell him his list was unplayably OP? Because he wasn't experienced enough to know any better. I managed to scrape by at 1750, but got stomped at 1500. But then again, I play Eldar.

Don't necessarily believe what people and the internet tell you about how OP and cheesy Eldar are. Sure they have some downright broken units, but the beauty of that army is that you have several other ways of playing that aren't cheesy and are much more balanced.

Don't play in tournaments unless you're prepared to lose.

tournaments are for people who have money to spend to build the best min/max armies.
I don't play in any tournaments except maybe just the fun themed ones "Tank Battles"

Most tournaments are filled with fliers, and knights, and LoW. If you're not equipped to handle them you will find a lot of frustration at the tournament level.

just play the friendly games. Lots of fun

OrderofCegorach wrote:
Well. I won't lie, I do have a bit of a thing for elves in whatever game I play, so that was a factor. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. Where I live in Tenn. doesnt have many different options by way of stores to play at, so I think I'll trtyoffering letting people play my army if they'd rather. I'm glad to know there is actually a difference to most people between "fair" Eldar and "broken" Eldar.

Not really. There is no such thing as fair Eldar. The only way to make it fair is to go out of your way to make it bad, and even then, some armies, like orks and nids still can't deal with them. The other gaming group we have here blanket banned Eldar, because the players refused to cooperate and voluntarily nerf their armies.

Taking more than 1 aspect unit is just asking for no games to be played with you. They are not wraith and scatbikes level of cheese, but are extremely undercosted for what they do. Like I said, if you really like them, take guardians and rangers, you can get them cheap.

Makumba wrote:

I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

Not cheese. Then why did you pick eldar over dark eldar, those are very mobile too? And you wouldn't have had problems with playing those, against most people.

He could want to play them because they match his cushion covers, and it would still be a valid choice. The problem here is that other Eldar players have crapped in the pool long before OP has even reached it.

OrderofCegorach, if you are in a small area with a small player pool, then I offer this suggestion... Take up a secondary army, one that you like. You will eventually anyway, we all do.
Play against some of the folks there, and show them that you aren't TFG. Then when they realise you're not, ask them to play your Eldar, and explain how you've been left feeling.

It's not fair, but it's how to get a game. I'm sorry that you're in that situation to begin with.

kburn wrote:

OrderofCegorach wrote:
Well. I won't lie, I do have a bit of a thing for elves in whatever game I play, so that was a factor. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. Where I live in Tenn. doesnt have many different options by way of stores to play at, so I think I'll trtyoffering letting people play my army if they'd rather. I'm glad to know there is actually a difference to most people between "fair" Eldar and "broken" Eldar.

Not really. There is no such thing as fair Eldar. The only way to make it fair is to go out of your way to make it bad, and even then, some armies, like orks and nids still can't deal with them. The other gaming group we have here blanket banned Eldar, because the players refused to cooperate and voluntarily nerf their armies.

Taking more than 1 aspect unit is just asking for no games to be played with you. They are not wraith and scatbikes level of cheese, but are extremely undercosted for what they do. Like I said, if you really like them, take guardians and rangers, you can get them cheap.

I actually have put some bids on some guardians and a unit of rangers, both seem like they can be useful workhorse units. So thanks for the suggestion.

As to the rest, that seems... harsh? I don't know, I have a friend who plays Space Wolves/White Scars and I've yet to beat him, but I have fun trying. Its hard for me to understand why such punitive measures are necessary in that context. But perhaps these players you speak of are unrelenting jerks, I can't know. It may be that I don't play even the units I use at their peak efficacy so my anecdotal experience is not reflective of the overall strength of the Eldar, but I've never had people be so outclassed that should they play, they could not beat me.
To get to the point I'm trying to make, it just appears mean to exclude people from the hobby they've invested so much into if the only thing that's bad about them is the army they play. If they are cool dudes/ladies, does it matter?

Don't worry comrade. Once the Tau come out people will be like "Eldar Who?".

OrderofCegorach wrote:

kburn wrote:

OrderofCegorach wrote:
Well. I won't lie, I do have a bit of a thing for elves in whatever game I play, so that was a factor. I do appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. Where I live in Tenn. doesnt have many different options by way of stores to play at, so I think I'll trtyoffering letting people play my army if they'd rather. I'm glad to know there is actually a difference to most people between "fair" Eldar and "broken" Eldar.

Not really. There is no such thing as fair Eldar. The only way to make it fair is to go out of your way to make it bad, and even then, some armies, like orks and nids still can't deal with them. The other gaming group we have here blanket banned Eldar, because the players refused to cooperate and voluntarily nerf their armies.

Taking more than 1 aspect unit is just asking for no games to be played with you. They are not wraith and scatbikes level of cheese, but are extremely undercosted for what they do. Like I said, if you really like them, take guardians and rangers, you can get them cheap.

I actually have put some bids on some guardians and a unit of rangers, both seem like they can be useful workhorse units. So thanks for the suggestion.

As to the rest, that seems... harsh? I don't know, I have a friend who plays Space Wolves/White Scars and I've yet to beat him, but I have fun trying. Its hard for me to understand why such punitive measures are necessary in that context. But perhaps these players you speak of are unrelenting jerks, I can't know. It may be that I don't play even the units I use at their peak efficacy so my anecdotal experience is not reflective of the overall strength of the Eldar, but I've never had people be so outclassed that should they play, they could not beat me.
To get to the point I'm trying to make, it just appears mean to exclude people from the hobby they've invested so much into if the only thing that's bad about them is the army they play. If they are cool dudes/ladies, does it matter?

Do yourself a favor and ignore kburn. He got burned by a couple of particularly nasty Eldar cheesemongers and now beleives that the entire army is OP. He also apparently hasn't played against Eldar players who have made good use of Guardians and Rangers, because I can guarantee you he would complain about them being OP too.

The Aspect Host is without a doubt the most powerful formation in the Eldar book. Making shooty Aspects BS5 turns them into serious murder units. However, the formation itself is balanced; you cna only take three aspects, and must take an Exarch with each one. If you want to be more fair, don't just spam the same unit three times; take three different Aspects and get some of the unique wargear for the Exarch (do this anyway). Aspect warriors only start to approach OP with some shenanigans from the Dark Eldar book that let you precision Deep-Strike them. Consider taking them in a Warhost as well, as that has a lot of units in the core formation that are normally considered sub-optimal. The automatic six inch Battle Focus doesn't hurt either.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Do yourself a favor and ignore kburn. He got burned by a couple of particularly nasty Eldar cheesemongers and now beleives that the entire army is OP. He also apparently hasn't played against Eldar players who have made good use of Guardians and Rangers, because I can guarantee you he would complain about them being OP too.

The Aspect Host is without a doubt the most powerful formation in the Eldar book. Making shooty Aspects BS5 turns them into serious murder units. However, the formation itself is balanced; you cna only take three aspects, and must take an Exarch with each one. If you want to be more fair, don't just spam the same unit three times; take three different Aspects and get some of the unique wargear for the Exarch (do this anyway). Aspect warriors only start to approach OP with some shenanigans from the Dark Eldar book that let you precision Deep-Strike them. Consider taking them in a Warhost as well, as that has a lot of units in the core formation that are normally considered sub-optimal. The automatic six inch Battle Focus doesn't hurt either.

I would say you are the one he has to ignore to get any games in. You're asking him to use cheesy units in the most powerful formation (your exact words) and expect to get games in?

Also, my gaming group as a whole got burnt. I only know about the other local club from people in my group, but it seems behaving like you, johnhwang, dman and cosmicsoybean is a common theme for eldar players, Like I said, I acknowledge skill where it exists, I play warmahordes. It is barely exists in 40k, and there is none for eldar. Try playing an actual strategic game, then come back to me. Or better yet, try not playing eldar.

OrderofCegorach I feel bad for you bro, I really do. Long as you don't smell like 5 days of cigarettes and no shower, and you are generally a nice guy to have a game with I would play you no problem! Though the chances of you living in southwest Arizona are probably slim.

Just gotta find a group of people that aren't so elfaphobic haha. If someone who seemed like a nice enough guy came up to me and said "hey I have an eldar list, I don't use wraith knights or scatbikes want to play?" I would say yes no hesitation. Don't know what people are so scared of these days.

I have to imagine that not every Eldar player is like the guy at my LGS that brings a Wraithknight to a 500 pt tourney, and his other 500 pt list for his nid army has a Flyrant ...

Wow some of you guys are so bitter you automatically decry everything as cheese no matter what. Not ever Eldar player is a WAAC cheesemonger. Hell, I have an Eldar army that's alot like the op's. It was gifted to me as a bunch of jetbikes and guardians from a guy who quit after 5th edition, and I built it to be a Rogue Trader styled force of Corsairs.

No more than one of any Aspect squad, a single Wraithlord, no Wraithknight, no scatterbikes, no warwalkers, and an ancient (first edition Forgeworld) Wave Serpent that lots of times gets used by swapping a turret as a Falcon, or as a WS simply to fulfill my Saim-Hann esque theme of 'no footsloggers' and holds guardians. On looks alone my favorite squad is my Swooping Hawks converted form plastic Scourges. I actually really don't think I can field any of the popular metas with what I have.

One of my favorite ways to play Eldar is the old combat patrol mission at 500pts.

But I am probably putting up all of this as a smokescreen to hide that I secretly love playing the most OP army ever.

Play eldar with the 8 wraith knights formation.

kburn wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Do yourself a favor and ignore kburn. He got burned by a couple of particularly nasty Eldar cheesemongers and now beleives that the entire army is OP. He also apparently hasn't played against Eldar players who have made good use of Guardians and Rangers, because I can guarantee you he would complain about them being OP too.

The Aspect Host is without a doubt the most powerful formation in the Eldar book. Making shooty Aspects BS5 turns them into serious murder units. However, the formation itself is balanced; you cna only take three aspects, and must take an Exarch with each one. If you want to be more fair, don't just spam the same unit three times; take three different Aspects and get some of the unique wargear for the Exarch (do this anyway). Aspect warriors only start to approach OP with some shenanigans from the Dark Eldar book that let you precision Deep-Strike them. Consider taking them in a Warhost as well, as that has a lot of units in the core formation that are normally considered sub-optimal. The automatic six inch Battle Focus doesn't hurt either.

I would say you are the one he has to ignore to get any games in. You're asking him to use cheesy units in the most powerful formation (your exact words) and expect to get games in?

Also, my gaming group as a whole got burnt. I only know about the other local club from people in my group, but it seems behaving like you, johnhwang, dman and cosmicsoybean is a common theme for eldar players, Like I said, I acknowledge skill where it exists, I play warmahordes. It is barely exists in 40k, and there is none for eldar. Try playing an actual strategic game, then come back to me. Or better yet, try not playing eldar.

While you are otherwise on my Ignore List, I will respond when directly attacked. Go facepalm yourself.

Seriously, the formations in the Eldar book while being very powerful are also not nearly OP compared to Scatbikers, D-weapons, and the Wraithknight. They're tame compared to the Space Marine Demi-Company/Full Gladius or the Necron Decurion.

If you actually bothered to read my posting history or pay attention to the forum, you would know that I have some disagreements with JohnHwangDD about his attitude (cosmicsoybean to a lesser extent) and regularly go after Dman137. Do you know why I have Dman137 in my signature? It's to mock him for being a troll with a serious case of being TFG. Just like you.

What game I choose to play is my business and my business alone. If you're so set against 40k, why don't you politely feth off and stay out of the 40k discussion boards. You and players like you are part of the reason why I have been hesitant to get into Warmahordes. I know it's a better ruleset and I like the models and lore enough, but where I play it has a bad reputation of being populated by the same kind of douchecanoes you and your gaming group represent. The kind of players who look down on people simply for their army choice and view their game as superior to all others. At least X-Wing has decent people playing it.

 Filch wrote:
Play eldar with the 8 wraith knights formation.

If someone spent the dough to own 8 and wants to run the formation, it's that players right to do so.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Terms like "WAAC" and "TFG" pertain more to attitude more than how you build your list.

And I'll just add: While they do rightfully apply to a percentage of gamers out there, they are terms that get thrown around, sometimes by sour losers who are too proud to consider that their opponent is consistently defeating them because their opponent is simply a better player.

OrderofCegorach wrote:

I actually have put some bids on some guardians and a unit of rangers, both seem like they can be useful workhorse units. So thanks for the suggestion.

As to the rest, that seems... harsh? I don't know, I have a friend who plays Space Wolves/White Scars and I've yet to beat him, but I have fun trying. Its hard for me to understand why such punitive measures are necessary in that context. But perhaps these players you speak of are unrelenting jerks, I can't know. It may be that I don't play even the units I use at their peak efficacy so my anecdotal experience is not reflective of the overall strength of the Eldar, but I've never had people be so outclassed that should they play, they could not beat me.
To get to the point I'm trying to make, it just appears mean to exclude people from the hobby they've invested so much into if the only thing that's bad about them is the army they play. If they are cool dudes/ladies, does it matter?

Sadly to some people, yes it does matter... As others have mentioned, Eldar has been the one army in the game that has always had the ability to go full out mega gouda. The one and only time Eldar really 'suffered' at all was during 5th edition, (aka: the Imperial love fest edition), as they were never actually updated, and had to play with a stale, bare bones 4th edition codex.
This level of constant affection by GW has earned all Eldar players a good deal of instant resentment from pretty much everyone else, especially among those armies that get to typically wait forever and ever for at best mediocre updates of their own. (hello Tyranids & Chaos!)

I know how it feels to be excluded simply based on your army of choice... I play Chaos Daemons, and back in 5th edition, the release of Grey Knights forced me to simply shelve my entire army. Then when we finally did get a new codex, things like the mere existence of being able to gain a re-rollable 2++ and psychic dominance earned every single Daemon play an automatic TFG label.
Now in 7th, there's still a good of people who won't play against my Tzeentch army unless I agree to demands such as a 12 Warp Charge per turn cap, no Grimoire, no Warpstorm table, LoC cannot take the Boomstick, 0-2 Tzheralds only, etc...

It's frustrating for sure, but mostly it's because of;
a) A couple douchebag loud mouths who either want easy wins, and/or spoiled elitists who insist on their fun being the only kind of fun allowed.
b) Mostly from ignorance when people go onto forums and read/hear about the super cheesed out Tournament lists and then assume that everyone who plays army 'X/Y/Z' will only ever field those couple of power lists.

The biggest challenge I find is simply re-educating the locals at you shop that the 'internet standard' simply isn't true. Try striking up a conversation with the other players, ask them what it is about your army that has them so angry/afraid... Show them your list before hand and let them look it over alongside your codex and they can see for themselves how you're trying to really tone down the potential abusiveness... Ask them if there's certain units and/or ways of fielding them that they'd like you to try out, etc...

If after all this they still refuse to even give you the time of day, then just shrug your shoulders and accept that unfortunately, that store is nothing but an elitist group of ignoramuses who only care about their individual fun, and will NEVER accept that you're entitled to have fun as well.

I feel for you, Harlies are one of the coolest things ever, especially the solitaire and jester! It's kinda disappointing but that's just what happens, and whilst the getting Rangers/guardians/D-eldar suggestions would work, it's depressing to see that the only way people think we can play eldar is to play unit we don't really want to. I'd suggest that maybe a compromise is best, talking it over with the opponent has really been the only way I've been getting any games, I.e. What level he thinks he's playing at, if he's playing semi/competitive then that's great, your list has no ridiculous tourney things that need changing. If he's playing something that he feels is weaker give him more points, or go less yourself he may find that your army is actually fine and fun to play and nowhere near deserving of the flavour labelling.

BTW where are you going next with the the theme? Shadow spectres are cool, especially the PL which leads me to ask, what's your HQ?

Some posters here are exactly the sort of players that they are accusing Eldar players of being. Basically unless the Eldar player nerfs himself so heavily that the other player gets an easy win, they will gripe about Eldar. If the Eldar player brings an atrocious list and somehow wins, you can bet the only possible reason the Eldar player won is because "Eldar are broken".

Amazingly some people manage to beat Eldar from time to time. My guess is that is because Eldar can actually be beaten especially by those who don't mess their pants when facing them.

Seems like for every snobby elitist Eldar player there is a snobby elitist other player who won't ever be satisfied unless the Eldar lose every game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Terms like "WAAC" and "TFG" pertain more to attitude more than how you build your list.

And I'll just add: While they do rightfully apply to a percentage of gamers out there, they are terms that get thrown around, sometimes by sour losers who are to proud to consider that their opponent is consistently defeating them because their opponent is simply a better player.

Dead on.

Experiment 626 wrote:

OrderofCegorach wrote:

I actually have put some bids on some guardians and a unit of rangers, both seem like they can be useful workhorse units. So thanks for the suggestion.

As to the rest, that seems... harsh? I don't know, I have a friend who plays Space Wolves/White Scars and I've yet to beat him, but I have fun trying. Its hard for me to understand why such punitive measures are necessary in that context. But perhaps these players you speak of are unrelenting jerks, I can't know. It may be that I don't play even the units I use at their peak efficacy so my anecdotal experience is not reflective of the overall strength of the Eldar, but I've never had people be so outclassed that should they play, they could not beat me.
To get to the point I'm trying to make, it just appears mean to exclude people from the hobby they've invested so much into if the only thing that's bad about them is the army they play. If they are cool dudes/ladies, does it matter?

Sadly to some people, yes it does matter... As others have mentioned, Eldar has been the one army in the game that has always had the ability to go full out mega gouda. The one and only time Eldar really 'suffered' at all was during 5th edition, (aka: the Imperial love fest edition), as they were never actually updated, and had to play with a stale, bare bones 4th edition codex.
This level of constant affection by GW has earned all Eldar players a good deal of instant resentment from pretty much everyone else, especially among those armies that get to typically wait forever and ever for at best mediocre updates of their own. (hello Tyranids & Chaos!)


I know how it feels to be excluded simply based on your army of choice... I play Chaos Daemons, and back in 5th edition, the release of Grey Knights forced me to simply shelve my entire army. Then when we finally did get a new codex, things like the mere existence of being able to gain a re-rollable 2++ and psychic dominance earned every single Daemon play an automatic TFG label.
Now in 7th, there's still a good of people who won't play against my Tzeentch army unless I agree to demands such as a 12 Warp Charge per turn cap, no Grimoire, no Warpstorm table, LoC cannot take the Boomstick, 0-2 Tzheralds only, etc...

It's frustrating for sure, but mostly it's because of;
a) A couple douchebag loud mouths who either want easy wins, and/or spoiled elitists who insist on their fun being the only kind of fun allowed.
b) Mostly from ignorance when people go onto forums and read/hear about the super cheesed out Tournament lists and then assume that everyone who plays army 'X/Y/Z' will only ever field those couple of power lists.

The biggest challenge I find is simply re-educating the locals at you shop that the 'internet standard' simply isn't true. Try striking up a conversation with the other players, ask them what it is about your army that has them so angry/afraid... Show them your list before hand and let them look it over alongside your codex and they can see for themselves how you're trying to really tone down the potential abusiveness... Ask them if there's certain units and/or ways of fielding them that they'd like you to try out, etc...

If after all this they still refuse to even give you the time of day, then just shrug your shoulders and accept that unfortunately, that store is nothing but an elitist group of ignoramuses who only care about their individual fun, and will NEVER accept that you're entitled to have fun as well.

Exalted for truth. Various armies in 40k have been afflicted with this since the old GW forums. A few screwjob players online are not all of real life.

I refuse to acknowledge that I am some sort of bogeyman because I like the Eldar aesthetics. I would still have painted my army if they were bottom-tier.

3 thoughts for the OP (I play against Eldar a lot):
1. Play the game/army you want, whether it's casual, competitive, or somewhere in between. You might not always be able to get that game in, but when you do it makes up for a lot of the crappy ones. Playing at NOVA was a welcome breath of fresh air for me because I like to play on the competitive side (even though I get stomped a lot), and my store is a lot less savvy on that. Consider travelling to tournaments if you want to dial it up a notch, look into narrative gaming scenarios if you want less of that. But don't let your local scene dominate your gaming experience for more than 6 months at a time.

2. Don't be an Eldar Defender. When someone uses a powerful list and downplays it, it can be incredibly frustrating for the other player. When someone talks about how overcosted D-scythes are, or how free transposrts aren't a big deal, or flyrants really aren't that great (all of which I have heard), then it builds a major wall between the players. Acknowledging an "unfairness" makes it easier to swallow and keeps the social aspect of the game from breaking down. Sure, you may be using "sub-optimal" units, but even the worst Eldar units have something going for them. A simple "yeah that can be a pretty powerful rule" when you roll a bunch of 6s with bladestorm helps a lot. The worst thing you can do is scream at Chaos Space Marines that your troops are actually bad when theirs are far worse.

3. Tabletop wargaming attracts a niche group of people, and a lot of the stereotypes are rooted in truth. I can't read the full background from the OP's post, but it wouldn't surprise me if your gaming group are a bunch of jerks, you're a little sensitive, or both. Figure out what the problem is, and fix it; if your group sucks you might have to narrow it down to one or two other people you can regularly play with. If you're on here looking for affirmation you're probably in the wrong place, as you've seen in previous posts...the internet and the wargaming community is not going to help you with insecurity. <---That's just in case you needed to hear it.

Good luck, and I hope you can find a better group, or better people to hang out and throw dice with.

Makumba wrote:

Good people don't start playing eldar.

The fact that you seriously believe this kinda crap is just really fething sad to me. I don't even know what to say.

You feel like you can't possibly lose any more faith in humanity but then they just keep finding new ways to disappoint you.

"I don't play against this, I don't play against that, I won't play against this, this, or that, either, and if you so much as even think about playing that then you're a bad person and I hope you kill yourself."

Gee, I wonder why the feth 40k is dying? What sane person would invest their money and time into a hobby like this to put up with this kind of garbage? The people who still consider themselves active players honestly spend more time refusing to play the game than they do actually fething playing anymore.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Makumba wrote:

Good people don't start playing eldar.

The fact that you seriously believe this kinda crap is just really fething sad to me. I don't even know what to say.

You feel like you can't possibly lose any more faith in humanity but then they just keep finding new ways to disappoint you.

"I don't play against this, I don't play against that, I won't play against this, this, or that, either, and if you so much as even think about playing that then you're a bad person and I hope you kill yourself."

Gee, I wonder why the feth 40k is dying? What sane person would invest their money and time into a hobby like this to put up with this kind of garbage? The people who still consider themselves active players honestly spend more time refusing to play the game than they do actually fething playing anymore.

I always thought it was the high prices, bad rules and constant codex creep. Jerks like that exist in every miniature game.

OrderofCegorach wrote:
So, I'm relatively new to 40k, for the longest time I would use friends' armies to play, as they wanted to play and I was willing to try the game. I bought my first models earlier this year (Harlequins) and mostly played with them. I was given a friend's leftover Eldar models (Some windriders and avengers) from his box set acquisition of ages ago. I bought some jetbikes and wraithguard that were sale for commission at my local gaming store as they were cheap, and have picked up some other models along the way as finances allowed. This was mostly before the new codex dropped. I now have enough models to run in our local tournaments (2500 or less points). I always liked the fluff and aesthetics of the Harlequins and Wraithguard especially and to a lesser extent Eldar as a whole. I don't own a Wraithknight, I don't run scatterlasers on my bikes, and I run them in larger units. But since the new codex dropped I feel like a pariah at tournaments and in online communities. I try and run lists that rely on non-cheese units, but I am limited by what I own and I can only pick up very little by way of new units as my finances are not amazing.

I don't know what I can do, I definitely can't just abandon my army and start over, its taken me 6 months to finally not have to proxy parts of the one I do have. I guess I just want everyone to know not everyone who plays Eldar is doing it to be a cheesemongering douche. I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

At our local store nobody but me plays or had played Eldar, but everyone keeps abreast of changes and frequents communities, so now I have people refusing me games, asking I not use units that I dont have a way to replace with alternates, or just accusing me of following the flavor of the week. So, what can a guy do? How do I play the army I like, and the only one I own without being told everywhere I go/look that I'm TFG for playing it? Hell, I don't even win that many games, heh. Anyhow, thanks for reading, and any advice is welcome.

There are so many simultaneous problems occurring that its hard to weed out the exact effects and causes.
I'll try to make sense out of this.
1. There is a divide in the player base that has only gotten worse over the past few years. Competitive vs casual. I think they're arbitrary and inaccurate ideals, but I won't get into that.
There is a philosophy among many 40k players that playing to win is bad. If you bring strong units, you're a WAAC, win at all cost player, and so must be a bad person. They view winning as anti-fun. They see Eldar they think, "WAAC jerk."
2. GW games reward spamming and OP list building. If you want to win, you take the most powerful stuff and as much of it as you can. This doesn't mesh well with fluffy narrative gamers. I remember my penitent engines and other units that I loved being nearly useless on the table.
3. There actually are units in 40k (especially Eldar) that are drastically under priced for what they do. Some armies, even bringing their best, have a hard time against an army designed this way. This creates an unfair game where one side has a strong advantage over the other. For many players this isn't fun. There's nothing wrong in this opinion.
4. GW themselves. They do nothing to foster the community and care nothing for balance. Don't expect errata any time soon. Their silence has created a festering and toxic community that could be healed with a little effort. They won't.
5. The only way to get a good game in with 40k is to talk to your opponents. However, in your case, it seems that that hasn't helped. There are cheaper games that allow people with different ideas of gaming to still play together and have a good time.

It happens but not as often as in 40k. GW has created a negative environment with their unbalanced rules and narrative forging BS. Winning the game is considered bad and you need to be publicly shamed over it. The outcome of the game should never be made at codex selection. The responsibility is on GW not on the player to fix that. And never assume player malice when it is blatantly GW incompetent is the cause. If you don't want to play against Eldar than simply say no thank you when they ask. There is no reason to be a dick about it. Bad sportsmanship hurts the community, not the Eldar.

OrderofCegorach wrote:

I don't know, I have a friend who plays Space Wolves/White Scars and I've yet to beat him, but I have fun trying. Its hard for me to understand why such punitive measures are necessary in that context. But perhaps these players you speak of are unrelenting jerks, I can't know. It may be that I don't play even the units I use at their peak efficacy so my anecdotal experience is not reflective of the overall strength of the Eldar, but I've never had people be so outclassed that should they play, they could not beat me.
To get to the point I'm trying to make, it just appears mean to exclude people from the hobby they've invested so much into if the only thing that's bad about them is the army they play. If they are cool dudes/ladies, does it matter?

Greetings.

I have not realised it is this bad out there. I play at a small club and everyone is friendly and plays with anyone who shows up. Sure there are loads of bickering and calling stuff OP, but we (eldars) get to play.

I have a small suggestion aswell. It is a combination of things that been said already,actually.

Bring your friend. Play him at the store/place/club (where you are denied games) and show everyone around how fun you have playing and what a non cheesy list you have.
After the game ask those around if your list was that bad? If you lost then wouldn't they like to win over an eldar list? (Since we all know eldars are invincibly overpowered and can win by just placing one guardian squad on the table).

Then the next time you get there, see if anyone of those who saw you play the game against your friend is there. Say you brought EXACTLY the same list. And want a game.


If they say no then. They are dickheads. And not much to do about it.

Good luck though.

/Farstrand

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I always thought it was the high prices, bad rules and constant codex creep. Jerks like that exist in every miniature game.

It's worse in 40k. And yeah, it all combines into one big ball of bullgak making 40k one of the hardest things to try and sell someone on.

True. I don't think I've ever seen the amount of judgement of a player selecting a certain army in any other miniature war game. You'd think choosing an army was like joining a gang at times.