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Again, correct is a relative term Martel, what works correctly in my meta may not work in yours, and vice-versa.

I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise because you *can't* be convinced. The only thing you're going to agree with is that which conforms to your own view. You've made that abundantly clear in the *dozens* of threads I've seen you comment on in this and other forums decrying Blood Angels.

As I said, it doesn't matter. I don't *care* that you don't like Blood Angels in their current incarnation. You're free to like, not like, love, or hate any army you wish for any reason you want to. What I don't want is you sending your *opinion* out into this forum as fact when in fact it is only your opinion. Blood Angels can work, I've made them work in semi-competitive and casual environments.

That's all. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

So I guess you won't show me your "correct" list, then.

Should I preface every post with "from a competetive standpoint"? Would that make it clear that I don't consider casual or semi-competitive a reasonable benchmark? To use your own logic, I don't care that you can get BA to work against people not trying particularly hard. I can do that too, I'm sure. That's not my complaint at all.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
Chaos bikers are great if you take them from the Khorne Daemonkin codex- specifically, "the gorepack" formation. Actually, it's the Fleshhounds in that formation that are really great- but you have the ability to take a lot of quick units and free up your fast attack slots.

Yah, the flesh hounds are the real good deal there, the fact that they haven an ok unit attached to their formation (bikes) just makes it better, but they are definitely not better than their loyal counterparts, both CSM/KDK aren't fearless and need to invest extra points if you want them to. They don't have access to grav weaponry like the loyalist... dunno if BA got it thou.

Don't forget that KDk bikers in a Gorepack gains Move through cover USR, mount some meltas on those and Bee-line in melta range while just ignoring terrain and their effects.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:
Chaos bikers are great if you take them from the Khorne Daemonkin codex- specifically, "the gorepack" formation. Actually, it's the Fleshhounds in that formation that are really great- but you have the ability to take a lot of quick units and free up your fast attack slots.

Yah, the flesh hounds are the real good deal there, the fact that they haven an ok unit attached to their formation (bikes) just makes it better, but they are definitely not better than their loyal counterparts, both CSM/KDK aren't fearless and need to invest extra points if you want them to. They don't have access to grav weaponry like the loyalist... dunno if BA got it thou.

Don't forget that KDk bikers in a Gorepack gains Move through cover USR, mount some meltas on those and Bee-line in melta range while just ignoring terrain and their effects.

And preferred enemy (psykers) iirc

Martel732 wrote:
So I guess you won't show me your "correct" list, then.

Should I preface every post with "from a competetive standpoint"? Would that make it clear that I don't consider casual or semi-competitive a reasonable benchmark? To use your own logic, I don't care that you can get BA to work against people not trying particularly hard. I can do that too, I'm sure. That's not my complaint at all.

Martel, you could roll up a decent BA Bikers list by doing the same thing most CSM armies do: grab a dataslate or some allies and go. In fact, I'm pretty sure the new SM Librarian formation on bikes (cuz that's what they're doing with Ravenwing at most "competitive" tournaments) with BA Bikers and a Priest would do fairly well.

What he's saying is that there's no point handing you these lists because you will immediately ignore them and continue to cry your same old dogma.

Does it suck hard that BA are garbage? Yes. But as a DA player who played with them all the way from 6th to their most recent dex: Get over it.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
So I guess you won't show me your "correct" list, then.

Should I preface every post with "from a competetive standpoint"? Would that make it clear that I don't consider casual or semi-competitive a reasonable benchmark? To use your own logic, I don't care that you can get BA to work against people not trying particularly hard. I can do that too, I'm sure. That's not my complaint at all.

Martel, you could roll up a decent BA Bikers list by doing the same thing most CSM armies do: grab a dataslate or some allies and go. In fact, I'm pretty sure the new SM Librarian formation on bikes (cuz that's what they're doing with Ravenwing at most "competitive" tournaments) with BA Bikers and a Priest would do fairly well.

What he's saying is that there's no point handing you these lists because you will immediately ignore them and continue to cry your same old dogma.

Does it suck hard that BA are garbage? Yes. But as a DA player who played with them all the way from 6th to their most recent dex: Get over it.

Why not play vanilla then if you are going to use a SM librarian conclave?

Martel732 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
So I guess you won't show me your "correct" list, then.

Should I preface every post with "from a competetive standpoint"? Would that make it clear that I don't consider casual or semi-competitive a reasonable benchmark? To use your own logic, I don't care that you can get BA to work against people not trying particularly hard. I can do that too, I'm sure. That's not my complaint at all.

Martel, you could roll up a decent BA Bikers list by doing the same thing most CSM armies do: grab a dataslate or some allies and go. In fact, I'm pretty sure the new SM Librarian formation on bikes (cuz that's what they're doing with Ravenwing at most "competitive" tournaments) with BA Bikers and a Priest would do fairly well.

What he's saying is that there's no point handing you these lists because you will immediately ignore them and continue to cry your same old dogma.

Does it suck hard that BA are garbage? Yes. But as a DA player who played with them all the way from 6th to their most recent dex: Get over it.

Why not play vanilla then if you are going to use a SM librarian conclave?

Because that's not how competitive works, now is it? Look at most top level lists. None of them run a single codex anymore. Even the broken Eldar or Ravenwing are using Ally shenanigans or supplements (Leviathan comes to mind for that winning Nidz list), as is standard SM (in the form of Ravenwing or Skitaari or some other nonsense).

Is this truly BA? No, but there in lies the rub. BA can't be truly terrible when they have access to great Allies to make up for it.

"BA can't be truly terrible when they have access to great Allies to make up for it."

But BA are so bad that there's no reason to even have them in the list. Just make the allies the main list and be done with it. There's no reason to run BA at all atm.

Martel732 wrote:
"BA can't be truly terrible when they have access to great Allies to make up for it."

But BA are so bad that there's no reason to even have them in the list. Just make the allies the main list and be done with it. There's no reason to run BA at all atm.

There's no reason to run anything that isn't completely optimized, but hey, people still do. And they have fun! Imagine that.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"BA can't be truly terrible when they have access to great Allies to make up for it."

But BA are so bad that there's no reason to even have them in the list. Just make the allies the main list and be done with it. There's no reason to run BA at all atm.

There's no reason to run anything that isn't completely optimized, but hey, people still do. And they have fun! Imagine that.

There's at least an argument as to who can win between DA/Necron/SM/Eldar. BA bring literally nothing to the table for vanilla marines.

Martel732 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"BA can't be truly terrible when they have access to great Allies to make up for it."

But BA are so bad that there's no reason to even have them in the list. Just make the allies the main list and be done with it. There's no reason to run BA at all atm.

There's no reason to run anything that isn't completely optimized, but hey, people still do. And they have fun! Imagine that.

There's at least an argument as to who can win between DA/Necron/SM/Eldar. BA bring literally nothing to the table for vanilla marines.

Eh a couple of things:
1. Priests can give Centurions of the Iron Hands a 4+++.
2. Those Fast Attack slots being used on Drop Pods save your Iron Hands their Fast Attack slot for Storm Talons.
3. Dante and Death Company make for an okay tarpit and melee force.
I'd say you're overall correct, but I'd think those to be nifty. That said, they're still partially being used for the Fast Attack slot for Drop Pods, huh?

Take the Martel arguments to PM, please. Martel, we all know you hate BA, it's all I ever see you post about (perhaps because I only see your posts when I forget to log in or someone quotes them), and it's old. It's gotten to a troll like state and most often derails the thread more than anything else, so please leave threads referencing BA alone. Surely you have better things to do with your time than post the same "BA suck" posts and then arguing people that they're the worst or close to it when anyone says they don't agree.

 Slaphead wrote:
I feel that this has gone off topic a bit with comparing the merits of Chaos Space Marines over Blood Angels. The post is about a specific unit, namely the bikes.

Indeed.


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