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So I have an interesting series of questions for you more experienced tourney players out there. I'm getting the itch to play in tournaments and I've finally gotten a full-time position so that it's feasible for me to travel to a few like Nova or Adepticon.

I'm hitting the reset button on my war gaming. I'm selling all of my admech, infinity, some random SM's and a few other bits and bobs and starting completely fresh with the money that generates.

Soooooo.....I'm looking into what armies I should start. My goal is to create an army that most people wouldn't see coming and would have a good time playing against. I don't want to do the flavor of the month and I want to avoid the obvious gimmicks, so I'm exploring some other options.

My initial thoughts:

-Sisters of Battle:
The ladies can do some pretty solid melta spam. For 202 points, you get 5 sisters with a simulacrum imperialis (use your acts of faith twice per game), 2 melta guns, a veteran sister superior with an inferno pistol and melta bombs, and an immolator w/ laud hailers and a twin linked multi melta. It's pricy, but not the worst troops choice out there. You also have access to Exorcists in heavy support and ignores cover dominions in fast attack. Not sure how many people have kept the sisters flag flying in tournaments, but it looks like fun.

-Dark Eldar:
Not sure what most people do, but DE with DE allies bringing 6 flyers to the fight and enough dark lances to annihilate a small planet would be a good chuckle.

-Blood Angels:
And the formation that lets you assault out of deep strike. I've always liked that one!

-Imperial Guard:
Bodies...lots....of.....bodies. And a massive defense network for SD pie plate shenanigans. Sprinkle in Wyverns to taste.

And others besides. I'm probably missing just how bad many of these armies can be when thrown up against a top tier tournament list, but that's why I'm asking you folks!

Are you looking to still try and win, or just not worry at all about winning and purely have fun even if you get slaughtered? And, aside from adepticon and nova, what level of events do you plan to attend? Some random local tournaments as well, or just big events?

Primarily local ones actually. I'd like to do well in the local(ish) events, and at events like Nova or Adepticon I'd like to not die by turn three. I don't really care about placing or anything, but a list people wouldn't often play against that would be a good time for me and my opponent would be the goal I think.

With practice you can do well with those armies, but you need to exploit certain things in the current edition to be on top.

You primarily want to focus on a few things:

1. Deployment options.
2. Ignores cover weapons or buffs
3. Counter invisibility via tactics or gear
4. Be able to kill a wraithknight or imperial knight in a single turn with the least amount of points possible.

If you get those down you'll be fine.

Army wise out of the list you have I'd say blood angels or imperial guard. With Librarian conclave shenanigans you can make both extremely good.

They don't get run a lot, but one I would definitely suggest you consider is the DA Allies for Guard. Azrael is an absolute beast at support, with a 4++ for the squad he joins, LD10 Stubborn, and all the goodies he can bring from the DA book.

My favorite moments I've seen were Azzy + a big thing of Ogryns going to town or Azzy and 30+ Guardsmen all with 4++.

I play Dark Eldar. (With the occasional CWE and Harlequin allies.) Of the last five competitive events I've been part of, I've come in first in three, and second in one.

They aren't a top tier codex, and you definitely have to work harder for your wins against certain lists (dual gladius lists, f'rex). But they can certainly compete in most games, especially at a local level.

I think your odds increase dramatically if you pick one army and play it extensively. You'll find that several players will come to tournaments with big stompy netlists that are quite easy to play, but without much experience to back them up. These players won't be as familiar with how to come back from a deficit with their armies, and the players with a great deal of experience can use that to their advantage.

As stated, it's largely up to you and how much time you're willing to put into your army. I feel like guard has the best stable of allies and flexible core to build up around.

It may or may not work in tournaments, but if you showed up with six flyers for a game with me, I would not enjoy playing that game.
If you want to surprise, and/or delight, your opponents with your list, why not go with unexpected choices? IG withOUT Wyverns, for instance. A friend of mine plays a DE army based mostly around hoverboards and jetbikes, and does pretty well. A local SoB player consistently wins the sportsmanship and painting awards with his army, mostly played without allies.
As Jimsolo said, experience with your army is better than a power list, so you can play almost anything competitively if you know it well enough.

I do feel drawn to SoB for some reason. I just did a quick list in my head.

Canoness w/ Mantle, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Rosarius
Command Squad w/ Hospitaler, 4x multi-meltas, immolator (laud hailer, TL Multi Melta)
3x Priests

4 Squads of 5 Sisters w/ Simulacrum, 2 meltaguns, Vet. Superior w/ melta bombs, combi-melta, immolator

2 Squads of 6 Dominions w/ Simulacrum, 4x meltaguns, Vet. Superior w/ Melta bombs, combi-melta, immolator

2 Exorcists
1846 points

41 infantry, 9 tanks
7 Combi-Meltas
4 Multi-Meltas (FNP)
8 Meltaguns (preferred enemy 2x per game)
8 Meltaguns (ignores cover 2x per game)
7 Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas
2 S8 AP1 Heavy D6 shots

Pretty much everything with a 6++ and a +1 Deny the Witch

Look like fun?

That does look fun. Both to play with and against. I'm a bit biased, though as it sort of resembles my Sisters, which use larger squads with less upgrades, but are otherwise similarly organized.

Sure. SoB is way underrepresented as is and looks like an interesting try.

 godswildcard wrote:
I do feel drawn to SoB for some reason. I just did a quick list in my head.

Canoness w/ Mantle, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Rosarius
Command Squad w/ Hospitaler, 4x multi-meltas, immolator (laud hailer, TL Multi Melta)
3x Priests

4 Squads of 5 Sisters w/ Simulacrum, 2 meltaguns, Vet. Superior w/ melta bombs, combi-melta, immolator

2 Squads of 6 Dominions w/ Simulacrum, 4x meltaguns, Vet. Superior w/ Melta bombs, combi-melta, immolator

2 Exorcists
1846 points

41 infantry, 9 tanks
7 Combi-Meltas
4 Multi-Meltas (FNP)
8 Meltaguns (preferred enemy 2x per game)
8 Meltaguns (ignores cover 2x per game)
7 Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas
2 S8 AP1 Heavy D6 shots

Pretty much everything with a 6++ and a +1 Deny the Witch

Look like fun?

Drop the canoness and command squad and take Uriah or Celestine. Use any extra points to get another dominions squad or exorcist. Drop the priests. Drop the gear and upgrades on the BSS squads.

Sisters are all about points efficiency. You don't want to load up on toys.

Also, if you can get / convert repressors, they are better in almost every way than Immolators.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fun list if you want pure SOB:

Celestine 135
Uriah 100
BSS with 2 Melta in Repressor 155
Dominions with 4 Melta in Repressor 180
Dominions with 4 Melta in Repressor 180
Dominions with 4 Melta in Repressor 180
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
Void Shield Generator (2 Shields) 100
BSS with MM 70
20 BSS with HF/Flamer 255
Priest with Litanies 40
Priest with Maul 40
Priest with Maul 40

7 AV13 Vehicles, a VSG and a Blob that can tarpit and potentially wear down pretty much anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also shuffle the points (drop one of the priests and a BSS or two from the 20) to get 3 Simulacrums and 1 Laud Hailer for the Dominions.

Drop the canoness and command squad and take Uriah or Celestine.

The point was to play something different and unexpected. Uriah and Celestine are hardly unexpected at this point.

Thessik wrote:

Drop the canoness and command squad and take Uriah or Celestine.

The point was to play something different and unexpected. Uriah and Celestine are hardly unexpected at this point.

You must be reading a different thread than me:

My goal is to create an army that most people wouldn't see coming and would have a good time playing against. I don't want to do the flavor of the month and I want to avoid the obvious gimmicks, so I'm exploring some other options.

The goal is to play something most people wouldn't see coming. Sisters of Battle fit that perfectly no matter what you bring. It isn't flavor of the month and even the expected combos for SOB are hardly obvious by most players. I love the SOB codex, but there is some stuff that is just bad. Canoness and CCS are pretty much in that wheelhouse.

If, on the other hand, he is fine with gimping his list in an army that already has significant challenges, go ahead and take them.

+1 Sisters of Battle. The tactics thread is long and worth a read; they aren't getting more common, and they have enough unique tricks (shenanigans one might say) to make them different. A little BA for allied Drop Pods, Sanguinary Priest and maybe a Stormraven can bring a lot of help to the table.

talljosh85 wrote:
+1 Sisters of Battle. The tactics thread is long and worth a read; they aren't getting more common, and they have enough unique tricks (shenanigans one might say) to make them different. A little BA for allied Drop Pods, Sanguinary Priest and maybe a Stormraven can bring a lot of help to the table.

I was going pure, but my preferred allies are SW. Thunderwolf Lords with Priest rerolls are hilarious.

I'd be real tempted to just use a Ministorum Priest in a Sisters army as my HQ, then bring in some form of allied beatstick unit. The ability to auto-pass their Ld test for their bardic music seems really attractive. (This is totally from a theoretical perspective; I don't play Sisters.)

Partly, it is because Sisters are not underrepresented in my local meta, so when you show up to a tournament with them, no one is terribly surprised. Partly it is the dependence on special characters that dominates tournaments and makes everyone expect to see them. I personally hate that dependence. Perhaps loathe is a better word. It makes armies too cookie-cutter, and takes the "special" out of special characters.
Either way, people expect Celestine and Uriah if you are playing Sisters. Even if they are just allies.

I can assure you that winning with Sisters is possible with a Canoness, and even without Repressors or Void Shield Generators. I've done it.
BTW, it sounds like we both agree that more bodies > more wargear.

Thessik wrote:
Partly, it is because Sisters are not underrepresented in my local meta, so when you show up to a tournament with them, no one is terribly surprised. Partly it is the dependence on special characters that dominates tournaments and makes everyone expect to see them. I personally hate that dependence. Perhaps loathe is a better word. It makes armies too cookie-cutter, and takes the "special" out of special characters.
Either way, people expect Celestine and Uriah if you are playing Sisters. Even if they are just allies.

I can assure you that winning with Sisters is possible with a Canoness, and even without Repressors or Void Shield Generators. I've done it.
BTW, it sounds like we both agree that more bodies > more wargear.

Well, yeah, I've won with pretty much every kind of sisters army there is.

If you really don't want Celestine, Uriah, repressors or forts (which is unnecessary gimping) drop them for base canonesses and do something like this:

CAD1
Canoness 65
BSS with HF/F in Immolator with TL-MM 135
BSS with HF/F in Immolator with TL-MM 135
Dominions with 4 Melta in Immolator with TL-MM 165
Dominions with 4 Melta in Immolator with TL-MM 165
Dominions with 4 Melta in Immolator with TL-MM 165
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125

CAD 2
Canoness 65
BSS with HF/F in Immolator with TL-MM 135
BSS with HF/F in Immolator with TL-MM 135
Dominions with 4 Melta in Immolator with TL-MM 165
Exorcist 125

It's not as good, but it certainly capitalizes on the benefits.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could also do the blob squad with Canoness with EW and Eviscerator, as well, but I don't like it without Hit and Run and Fearless.

 jreilly89 wrote:
They don't get run a lot, but one I would definitely suggest you consider is the DA Allies for Guard. Azrael is an absolute beast at support, with a 4++ for the squad he joins, LD10 Stubborn, and all the goodies he can bring from the DA book.

My favorite moments I've seen were Azzy + a big thing of Ogryns going to town or Azzy and 30+ Guardsmen all with 4++.

I think you would have to take DA as the main force with Guard as the allies unless you are running a CAD of both, since Azzy is now a Lord of War and therefore cannot be taken in an allied detachment. However, if you can make it happen, a blob of Guardsmen with 4++ would be a hilarious and fun surprise for a tournament opponent.

After your first post, my only thought was Sisters with Guard or Inquisition allies.

Looks like others thought the same, I agree

Sisters with blob guard are hilarious.

Inquisitor codex army, no allies. Be the .01%

I've never once used a fortification with my Sisters, and I usually run a Canoness, and I sweep most of my opponents :p

I do love me my Repressors, however. I personally wouldn't bother with allies - I find that rather than synergising with my Sisters, whatever else I put in (except the occasional Inquisitor for psi-power) instead dilutes their effectiveness.

It seems like repressors would be a moot point since they are no longer produced and eBay seems to be short of them.

What about air power? I do love the FW flyer models and had thought that may be a good anti-flyer defense or some decent anti light to medium tank firepower.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've never once used a fortification with my Sisters, and I usually run a Canoness, and I sweep most of my opponents :p

I do love me my Repressors, however. I personally wouldn't bother with allies - I find that rather than synergising with my Sisters, whatever else I put in (except the occasional Inquisitor for psi-power) instead dilutes their effectiveness.

You must be a better player than me, but I despise priests as a model as they always seem to die on me no matter how well I protect them.. I've beaten my friends plenty of times with Sisters, but the style of army is so limited it got boring to play after a couple of years. My models haven't seen play in quite some time. I've switched to Dark Angels for another underdog army and was pleasantly surprised with the new codex. My otehr amy is guard. Now I only break them out for a game to satisfy my tank fetish.

 godswildcard wrote:
It seems like repressors would be a moot point since they are no longer produced and eBay seems to be short of them.

What about air power? I do love the FW flyer models and had thought that may be a good anti-flyer defense or some decent anti light to medium tank firepower.

Repressors are an easy conversion from the Immolator kit. We have threads on it in the P&M forum or in the Sisters thread.

Sisters are best to ignore flyers and do the ground game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've never once used a fortification with my Sisters, and I usually run a Canoness, and I sweep most of my opponents :p

I do love me my Repressors, however. I personally wouldn't bother with allies - I find that rather than synergising with my Sisters, whatever else I put in (except the occasional Inquisitor for psi-power) instead dilutes their effectiveness.

Just because you can win with them, doesn't mean it is the best way.

And I have had great success with allies without diluting sisters. They can give you tools you sorely need.

Well, in this case I wouldn't go.
Getting trashed all the time is not funny.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, in this case I wouldn't go.
Getting trashed all the time is not funny.

Not sure who you are responding to.

 pretre wrote:

talljosh85 wrote:
+1 Sisters of Battle. The tactics thread is long and worth a read; they aren't getting more common, and they have enough unique tricks (shenanigans one might say) to make them different. A little BA for allied Drop Pods, Sanguinary Priest and maybe a Stormraven can bring a lot of help to the table.

I was going pure, but my preferred allies are SW. Thunderwolf Lords with Priest rerolls are hilarious.

Pure Sisters is a lot of fun; but I've lately been in love with Drop Pod HF Rets and Melta Doms. The Fleshtearer formation really provides easy access to Drop Pods, Sanguinary Priest of a Libby, and the Stormraven. But TWC with rerolls would be hilarity on a rage producing level.