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 Vryce wrote:
I'm not your 'bro'.

See? What did I tell you?

Girls, girl, you're both pretty. Back to the topic!

casvalremdeikun wrote:the Riptide (which can be killed fairly easily), not a whole lot of the codex was OP.

casvalremdeikun wrote:It isn't easy, but it can be done.

Hi, walking contradiction! =)


Riptide is literally the tankiest invement of the points that you can get that I can think of. Never mind that it gets amazing firepower and mobility, it's tankiness is absurd.

And of course "it can be done". Killing a Heirophant can be done. That doesn't make it balanced at <200 pts.

Regardless, how bout you share what Dark Eldar or Nids or Orks can do to trade effectively with Riptide? Rather than just telling us what SM can do.

Martel732 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The German translations people have found from the new codex might have nerfed Supporting Fire severely, so it might be different now.

Well that gives Tau back a weakness that they are supposed to have, at least. Although, in the scheme of things, it's somewhat unwarranted because Tau should be shootier than Eldar and that's just no longer true. To be honest, I don't know where the Tau codex should be. Part of me thinks they should be able to compete with Eldar, because SOMEONE should be able to do that, but by definition, that's another codex I can't have a good game against with BA.

You are right, Tau should be more shootier than Eldar. But the correct way to fix this would be making Eldar less shooty, not making Tau more insane. They are already better than the majority of the game. Eldar is just ridiculous, and everyone needs something more in comparison to them.

I don't see Eldar getting less shooty any time soon. Eldar players aren't going to magically stop using the official codex, so that puts us in an awkward position. The only option left to us is making Tau insane. Eldar are what they are.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't see Eldar getting less shooty any time soon. Eldar players aren't going to magically stop using the official codex, so that puts us in an awkward position. The only option left to us is making Tau insane. Eldar are what they are.

That's terrible logic because it stuffs like 10 match ups to fix one. Eldar are what they are. Let's not make that sentence Eldar AND Tau are what they are. One game ruining codex is enough.

The new codex is coming with 9 new formations, how is that not a big deal?

That is A LOT of potentially good options for list building and formation bonuses.

 Bach wrote:
The new codex is coming with 9 new formations, how is that not a big deal?

That is A LOT of potentially good options for list building and formation bonuses.

And that looks like it's the only thing that is coming out as far as new rules go. Latest rumors say that it will be a reprint with formation and the new rules for the 3-4 models that will be released.

Not a bad thing since the Tau codex as has been mentioned before is still a powerful one, the addition of formation will probably close the gap between them and the new necron/eldar/marine codexes

 SHUPPET wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't see Eldar getting less shooty any time soon. Eldar players aren't going to magically stop using the official codex, so that puts us in an awkward position. The only option left to us is making Tau insane. Eldar are what they are.

That's terrible logic because it stuffs like 10 match ups to fix one. Eldar are what they are. Let's not make that sentence Eldar AND Tau are what they are. One game ruining codex is enough.

So by your logic, only eldar, necron, da, and vanilla dex are allowed to win. The rest of us can't be brought up to their level because that would break the game. I get it now.

Frequency of broken games increases as frequency of broken things approach 50% (from either direction).

Far less than 50% of the options in the game are as good as the things you say should be "allowed to win".

That Markerlights are insanely good and as one of those people whos army relies upon cover to survive I can confirm that they are brokenly good. A -1 per token spent would be okay, to a minimum of a 6+ cover save but I can confirm that removing entire handfuls of my models as the Tau blitz my stuff from left to right, especially as they are shooting at a range where I cannot even hit them, is not anywhere close to fun.

 Lord Yayula wrote:


And that looks like it's the only thing that is coming out as far as new rules go. Latest rumors say that it will be a reprint with formation and the new rules for the 3-4 models that will be released.

Not a bad thing since the Tau codex as has been mentioned before is still a powerful one, the addition of formation will probably close the gap between them and the new necron/eldar/marine codexes

No, there are more changes than that. The latest rumours, which aren't rumours at this point, say that you can use the campaign book in conjunction with the old codex to play, or buy the new codex. That doesn't mean they didn't change all units, as we know they changed a few things already, but rather that those changes will be listed in the campaign book, in addition to the new formations, and new unit rules.

 Vash108 wrote:
Girls, girl, you're both pretty. Back to the topic!

Am I pretty?

Bharring wrote:
Frequency of broken games increases as frequency of broken things approach 50% (from either direction).

Far less than 50% of the options in the game are as good as the things you say should be "allowed to win".

You neglect the fact that people gravitate towards the strongest units. But then you have always neglected this.

Martel732 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I don't see Eldar getting less shooty any time soon. Eldar players aren't going to magically stop using the official codex, so that puts us in an awkward position. The only option left to us is making Tau insane. Eldar are what they are.

That's terrible logic because it stuffs like 10 match ups to fix one. Eldar are what they are. Let's not make that sentence Eldar AND Tau are what they are. One game ruining codex is enough.

So by your logic, only eldar, necron, da, and vanilla dex are allowed to win. The rest of us can't be brought up to their level because that would break the game. I get it now.

It means that codex power level should be balanced towards the mean, not towards the outliers. Especially not towards the outlier (eldar) that exists so far out that you have to redesign your entire graph to accommodate it.

The codexes you listed should be nerfed back towards the mean. Other codexes should be buffed towards the mean. That is how you make a balanced game, not by making every new codex the new best.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
Girls, girl, you're both pretty. Back to the topic!

Am I pretty?

Yes

 master of ordinance wrote:
That Markerlights are insanely good and as one of those people whos army relies upon cover to survive I can confirm that they are brokenly good. A -1 per token spent would be okay, to a minimum of a 6+ cover save but I can confirm that removing entire handfuls of my models as the Tau blitz my stuff from left to right, especially as they are shooting at a range where I cannot even hit them, is not anywhere close to fun.

Why minimum of 6+? The -1 per marker with no limit was never a problem. We had 7 years of that without it being "broken".

I was following the Tau rumors, and was nearly convinced to go that way. However, Iafter seeing the Raven Guard (mixed in that release & rumor thread) I actually am going to do a Raven Guard army instead.

Also, little confused why GW is doing what it's doing with the Tau codex. Seems kind of lazy (IMHO).

The Tau codex is powerful as it is, they don't necessarily need any more help.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
That Markerlights are insanely good and as one of those people whos army relies upon cover to survive I can confirm that they are brokenly good. A -1 per token spent would be okay, to a minimum of a 6+ cover save but I can confirm that removing entire handfuls of my models as the Tau blitz my stuff from left to right, especially as they are shooting at a range where I cannot even hit them, is not anywhere close to fun.

Why minimum of 6+? The -1 per marker with no limit was never a problem. We had 7 years of that without it being "broken".

Because if I am hunkered down in a trench in all honesty shining some fancy laser pointers at my cover should do nothing at all. Likewise, removing all the cover makes no sense.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
The Tau codex is powerful as it is, they don't necessarily need any more help.

Ehh, it's upper mid tier. Has been since 7th hit. Although it certainly can be strong if you spam riptides and your opponent isn't ready to deal with it.

"The codexes you listed should be nerfed back towards the mean"

But....that's not happening. The best we can hope for is for all future codices to be at the same level. We can shift the mean as well. My logic is this: Eldar aren't giving up their book, so everyone needs to be able to give Eldar a run for their money. As they exist now, not a nerfed version of Eldar.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
That Markerlights are insanely good and as one of those people whos army relies upon cover to survive I can confirm that they are brokenly good. A -1 per token spent would be okay, to a minimum of a 6+ cover save but I can confirm that removing entire handfuls of my models as the Tau blitz my stuff from left to right, especially as they are shooting at a range where I cannot even hit them, is not anywhere close to fun.

Why minimum of 6+? The -1 per marker with no limit was never a problem. We had 7 years of that without it being "broken".

Because if I am hunkered down in a trench in all honesty shining some fancy laser pointers at my cover should do nothing at all. Likewise, removing all the cover makes no sense.

That's... not a good reason.
First, they aren't "fancy laser pointers" they are target designation, that appear to also scan 3-d environments, and are fed into a hyper-advanced battlefield computer which automatically calculates momentum and trajectory allowing units to tap into that information and make shots that can be feats that outmatch the greatest human snipers (that it to say, unmodified human). and are at frequency that the human eye can't precive (although that varies if the writer want to do the 'laser beam on the head' thing).

Second, game mechanics trump fluff and. There is no reasonable reason they should be limited to that. -1 cover per marker is how they were for 7 years with no complaints (perhaps longer, I never played their 3rd edition dex). It works, and has always worked. I personally would like to see them be brought to exactly their old markers (-1cover, +1bs to maximum of 5, -1ld on unit for that shooting, 1 to fire seeker).

-1 cover OR +1 BS and I would be fine with it. Also, there is no way in hell that even with all that data a gunner is going to magically avoid all the cover.

 master of ordinance wrote:
-1 cover OR +1 BS and I would be fine with it. Also, there is no way in hell that even with all that data a gunner is going to magically avoid all the cover.

Why does IG even care? Most Tau weapons aren't that efficient vs IG targets .

Actually, very much yes. Because, and this is important, this is things obscuring them, not blocking their line of sight (LOS blocking terrain). This is stuff like your head poking over a wall, or hiding in the leaves, stuff like that. Not that they literally can't see them at all.

I think Tau markerlights are fine as is. Especially now with DA running around.

Then how does a Plasma gun hit a target marked by a few Auspexes navigate the same problem? With far less computational power, targeted manually?

The same could be said for many cover reducing/removing options (Not all - wouldn't apply to Perfect Timing). The remaining odds of hitting cover are considered to be closer to 0 than 1/6, effectively.

Open a thread.

Read "a Riptide can be killed easily".

Close the thread.

 Korinov wrote:
Open a thread.

Read "a Riptide can be killed easily".

Close the thread.

This is the delusion that some Tau players argue from.

 Korinov wrote:
Open a thread.

Read "a Riptide can be killed easily".

Close the thread.

You obviously haven't closed it yet.


edit:I'm always confused by that myself though, I've always had a hard time killing them. The only real ways I've seen people to it easily are grav-bikers, and occasionally scaring it off the table.

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
-1 cover OR +1 BS and I would be fine with it. Also, there is no way in hell that even with all that data a gunner is going to magically avoid all the cover.

Why does IG even care? Most Tau weapons aren't that efficient vs IG targets .

Yeah I know, all they do is outrange us, wound us on a 2+, ignore our armour completely....

 master of ordinance wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
-1 cover OR +1 BS and I would be fine with it. Also, there is no way in hell that even with all that data a gunner is going to magically avoid all the cover.

Why does IG even care? Most Tau weapons aren't that efficient vs IG targets .

Yeah I know, all they do is outrange us, wound us on a 2+, ignore our armour completely....

Yeah on the parts of the IG that are supposed to die. If they are wasting marker lights to ignore cover against guardsmen, you've already won.