Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 15:56:01
Subject: Re:Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
|
Actually, thinking about it, I do believe that the current Guardian sculpts are also from '99, though they at least still look solid and their weapon platforms are from around '08/'09'ish iirc.
The Berserkers looked goofy at the time, and have continued to age poorly.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 15:59:17
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Twisting Tzeentch Horror
Canada
|
I have to admit the guardian models despite being old are a pretty solid kit still.
|
3000 Points Tzeentch |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 16:43:05
Subject: Re:Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
|
Agreed. Eldar models in general are gorgeous sculpts, even though the Phoenix Lords are still 2nd ed models! The 'worst' model in that line is probably the equally old Avatar, and really, it's more or less his puny size that makes him seem like a crappy model nowadays...
I really wish that Chaos could get Jes Godwyn to overhaul our entire line.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 19:41:42
Subject: Re:Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
I don't think the berserkers are actually innately all that goofy, I think it is more the poses of the parts available in the kit lend themselves to being assembled poorly. When Berserkers are assembled with some thought to the models momentum they look a lot better.
There were some nice berserker models on display at warhammer world (in the museum thing) last time I went. They had a much better colour scheme than out the book too.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/19 19:43:06
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 20:28:09
Subject: Re:Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
|
nareik wrote:
I don't think the berserkers are actually innately all that goofy, I think it is more the poses of the parts available in the kit lend themselves to being assembled poorly. When Berserkers are assembled with some thought to the models momentum they look a lot better.
There were some nice berserker models on display at warhammer world (in the museum thing) last time I went. They had a much better colour scheme than out the book too.
Their running poses need major conversion work to look decent & more natureal, and they're still from the period of Mr.Gorilla Fists. The 'grinning' skull helm is also laughably cartoonish, and their little 'extras' such as the grenades, skull-on-a-chain & swords are pain in the arse to work with.
Compared to even the 3rd ed plastic Assault Marines they looked 'meh'. Now they just look badly out of place next to even the likes of the Space Wolf plastics & BA Death Co. kits, let alone the newest (and unneeded) Vanilla Marine kits.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 20:31:49
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
I swear to the God Emperor, if Geedubs somehow read this thread...
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 20:48:13
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
|
They'd still do nothing. Space Marines are the only faction that matters. Eldar are OP because they're supposed to be Hard mode for Space Marines. Chaos is a joke because we're the Space Marine copycats. If you look at the books, only Space Marines have an answer to everything the other factions can do because they're designed to crush all opposition. Sometimes it's EASY (Orks, Chaos), sometimes it's CHALLENGING (Necrons, Tyranids) and sometimes it's HARD (Eldar, Tau). But it's always at least possible. Even when it's sort of on the fence, you can just ally in Battle Brothers.
As long as GW has it in their heads that the Xenos races are purely Fluff NPCs and the real heroes are the Adeptus Astartes, our codex will never be as good as theirs. Hence all the memories of 3rd edition being the only time Chaos has ever shone brighter than the Emperor's chosen... and ever will. Chaos even won the Eye of Terror campaign back in 3rd edition, which was meant to decide the outcome of the war, but that would have screwed the fluff over so they waved their Jedi hand and purged the heretics.
|
It's called a thick skin. The Jersey born have it innately. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 21:05:42
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Lesser Daemon of Chaos
New England
|
nareik wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Arkaine wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:CSM's don't have accurate Deep Strike. THEN you have to roll to see if the enemy is blinded. Also, they aren't durable for the cost either. I ran numbers for them and Raptors a long while back I can show you. The ONLY thing they do better is attacking MEQ outside of cover. That's REALLY it. Plus Raptors can take Melta Guns.
May I point out that there is no reason to take Warp Talons to Blind people? Like, at all? If you want to do that, use Plague Marines and throw Blight Grenades. They partially count as defensive grenades... guess what those do?
I always forget Defensive Grenades do that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nareik wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Tactical_Spam wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because it isn't balanced, internally OR externally.
You have little to no reason to use units like Forgefiends, Mutilators, Warp Talons, Dark Apostles, most of the special characters, Berserker and Rubric Marines, etc. There's only TWO DT options, the Heldrake is harder to position now because screw having a 180 degree angle when you are a dragon.
Outside of that, the usable options are costly compared to what the Loyalists, Necrons, and Eldar are capable of. Remember what I said about the Heldrake earlier, Noise Marines paying 30 points for their best weapon, Plague Marines being stuck with Rhinos, etc.
Forgefiends wreck house, 3 S8 AP2 Small blasts will obliterate MEQ's and TEQ's while putting the hurt on MC's.
Mulitators are useful to some extent. If you deep steike a pack of them behind enemy lines, only a stupid person wouldnt start shooting them.
Warp talons + Gate of Infinity = everybody blinded
1. At 24" for 200 points on a platform that isn't durable for 200 points. Small Blasts suck anyway.
2. Ah yes, on the backfield where they will get to the enemy when thanks to SaP being a useful rule for a melee squad.
3. CSM's don't have accurate Deep Strike. THEN you have to roll to see if the enemy is blinded. Also, they aren't durable for the cost either. I ran numbers for them and Raptors a long while back I can show you. The ONLY thing they do better is attacking MEQ outside of cover. That's REALLY it. Plus Raptors can take Melta Guns.
Why are you replying as if he implied these units have absolutely no draw backs? Most units, have pros and cons, which really is as it should be.
If anyone wants to use these units I suggest running them on a smaller board. Makes it harder to get away from shorter range/slower things.
These are units that HAVE no pros because whatever they do is better done elsewhere. ZERO pros. Count them.
Clearly there are pros, even if the balance falls on the side of cons.
Are you being intentionally hyperbolic? I honestly don't understand how you could mean they have no pros.
You can't seriously say having Ap2 blasts isn't a pro? Yes, there are disadvantages to it, but taking a forgefiend isn't the same as just not using the points at all. When I use obliterators one of my favourite weapons to chose is the plasma cannon, but then I am limited to firing only every other round, so there is a pro for forgefiends off the bat!
65 points for a deepstriking chainfist that can't be killed by a single lascannon/melta wound (and odds on survives two such wounds) isn't useless, even if it has to spend 2 or 3 turns waiting to be able to assault. Being a single model unit vastly mitigates deepstrike scatter (which CSM don't have many ways to control). The only thing that competes for a cheap/throwaway sucker punch is the obliterator, but they aren't anywhere near as good in combat, not having a chain fist, extra attacks, a decent initiative to flee escape combats, are higher target priority, more competitive slot selection. I always loved using mutilators in my previous chaos army, so much so when I started a new chaos army I once again use mutilators!
Warp talons I won't defend as I have no experience with them, and haven't given them much thought.
Really, really trying to not be a dick here.... But you're using MUTILATORS as an example of good Chaos units?!?!???!???!??
Hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Worst unit in the codex.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 21:12:04
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Drakhun
|
At best they are a distraction unit that eats an elite slot.
At worst they really are a waste. Too expensive and nowhere near enough attacks.
|
DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 01:19:35
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Furious Raptor
|
I've been playing CSM for 4 years until recently when I ditched it for the Horus Heresy Legion list. In my opinion, it suffers from the following:
1. It has absolutely no flavour whatsoever. If you play a Traitor Legion this book really doesn't represent your army. Where are all the boarding shields? The plasma blasters? The Thunder Hammers? The Phosphex? The same goes if you play a renegade chapter, where did they dump their razorbacks and assault cannons and find some sweet new reaper autocannons?
Also, there's no way to customise the army from a rules perspective, other than the reason GW loves loyal SM, why did they take out the Legion rules? CSM players would kill for them at this point no matter how awful they could be, at least it's a start.
2. Too many completely useless units. I struggle to put up any kind of resistance with this book without using a Heldrake. Warp Talons, Mutilators and Thousand Sons are the best examples of those in the book and as stated before, do nothing that isn't done better elsewhere. The circumstances where I would want to use these units over anything else in the book are so incredibly specific that to encounter them in a game would require a measure of tactical ineptitude from your opponent.
3. Too many holes in the codex that really need plugging. I.e. transport.
4. Little to no synergy in the codex, again, this was mentioned previously in the thread.
Making lists with this codex is a pain and pretty arduous, there's so many units that I feel like I have to include just to not be slaughtered every game. I'll give it another go when the next codex comes out but I'm done with 6th edition CSM.
|
Word Bearers 4500 Points
Bran Redmaw's Great Company 3000 Points
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 01:27:47
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
CSM can be competitive with a mixology of daemons, either supplemental codex and Forgeworld. For example you can easily rock an army with two Eternal Warrior Juggerlords leading a horde of 3++ Flesh Hounds. I like to run the Chaos Typhon which can get the save up to 2++... It is well costed for a Lord of War and what it can do. Of course KDK is the new hotness.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 01:44:12
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Furious Raptor
|
Dozer Blades wrote:CSM can be competitive with a mixology of daemons, either supplemental codex and Forgeworld. For example you can easily rock an army with two Eternal Warrior Juggerlords leading a horde of 3++ Flesh Hounds. I like to run the Chaos Typhon which can get the save up to 2++... It is well costed for a Lord of War and what it can do. Of course KDK is the new hotness.
This is just plugging the holes in a weak codex with a more powerful one. You could say CSM can be competitive with added Riptides or Scatbikes, both totally doable since you can ally anyone with anyone. I think you're point about adding FW is spot on though. Sadly there's still a lot of people out there pretty vehemently against FW which is another problem entirely. It really needs a Dark Eldar style shake up to me.
|
Word Bearers 4500 Points
Bran Redmaw's Great Company 3000 Points
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 03:06:39
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
KhorneontheCobb wrote:nareik wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Arkaine wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:CSM's don't have accurate Deep Strike. THEN you have to roll to see if the enemy is blinded. Also, they aren't durable for the cost either. I ran numbers for them and Raptors a long while back I can show you. The ONLY thing they do better is attacking MEQ outside of cover. That's REALLY it. Plus Raptors can take Melta Guns.
May I point out that there is no reason to take Warp Talons to Blind people? Like, at all? If you want to do that, use Plague Marines and throw Blight Grenades. They partially count as defensive grenades... guess what those do?
I always forget Defensive Grenades do that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nareik wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Tactical_Spam wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because it isn't balanced, internally OR externally.
You have little to no reason to use units like Forgefiends, Mutilators, Warp Talons, Dark Apostles, most of the special characters, Berserker and Rubric Marines, etc. There's only TWO DT options, the Heldrake is harder to position now because screw having a 180 degree angle when you are a dragon.
Outside of that, the usable options are costly compared to what the Loyalists, Necrons, and Eldar are capable of. Remember what I said about the Heldrake earlier, Noise Marines paying 30 points for their best weapon, Plague Marines being stuck with Rhinos, etc.
Forgefiends wreck house, 3 S8 AP2 Small blasts will obliterate MEQ's and TEQ's while putting the hurt on MC's.
Mulitators are useful to some extent. If you deep steike a pack of them behind enemy lines, only a stupid person wouldnt start shooting them.
Warp talons + Gate of Infinity = everybody blinded
1. At 24" for 200 points on a platform that isn't durable for 200 points. Small Blasts suck anyway.
2. Ah yes, on the backfield where they will get to the enemy when thanks to SaP being a useful rule for a melee squad.
3. CSM's don't have accurate Deep Strike. THEN you have to roll to see if the enemy is blinded. Also, they aren't durable for the cost either. I ran numbers for them and Raptors a long while back I can show you. The ONLY thing they do better is attacking MEQ outside of cover. That's REALLY it. Plus Raptors can take Melta Guns.
Why are you replying as if he implied these units have absolutely no draw backs? Most units, have pros and cons, which really is as it should be.
If anyone wants to use these units I suggest running them on a smaller board. Makes it harder to get away from shorter range/slower things.
These are units that HAVE no pros because whatever they do is better done elsewhere. ZERO pros. Count them.
Clearly there are pros, even if the balance falls on the side of cons.
Are you being intentionally hyperbolic? I honestly don't understand how you could mean they have no pros.
You can't seriously say having Ap2 blasts isn't a pro? Yes, there are disadvantages to it, but taking a forgefiend isn't the same as just not using the points at all. When I use obliterators one of my favourite weapons to chose is the plasma cannon, but then I am limited to firing only every other round, so there is a pro for forgefiends off the bat!
65 points for a deepstriking chainfist that can't be killed by a single lascannon/melta wound (and odds on survives two such wounds) isn't useless, even if it has to spend 2 or 3 turns waiting to be able to assault. Being a single model unit vastly mitigates deepstrike scatter (which CSM don't have many ways to control). The only thing that competes for a cheap/throwaway sucker punch is the obliterator, but they aren't anywhere near as good in combat, not having a chain fist, extra attacks, a decent initiative to flee escape combats, are higher target priority, more competitive slot selection. I always loved using mutilators in my previous chaos army, so much so when I started a new chaos army I once again use mutilators!
Warp talons I won't defend as I have no experience with them, and haven't given them much thought.
Really, really trying to not be a dick here.... But you're using MUTILATORS as an example of good Chaos units?!?!???!???!??
Hahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha
Worst unit in the codex.
I'm afraid perhaps you misread so you might have succeeded  . I wasn't arguing them to be 'good'.
Rather that they had some combination of Pros that another unit didn't also possess. A cheap, resilient, small foot print unit with plenty of S8 armour bane attacks that ignore cover with a moderately good initiative for breaking from bad combats. They have a niche.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/20 03:07:19
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 03:37:20
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
So what you want is a Termicide with a Chainfist.
|
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 03:40:45
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
|
everything in the chaos codex is over costed and the units are gimped by random rolls and tables.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 04:13:00
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
|
jasper76 wrote:
And starter sets aside, IMO every box you buy from GW should have every single option listed in the codex. CSM is particularly bad about this. If they can do a decent enough job of this with Tyranids, why not with other armies?
It would be great, but you just KNOW we would end up with less options, not more bits
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 04:51:26
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Maybe, but there are drawbacks to the termicide that mutilators don't have.
Bigger footprint makes risky DS risker.
Relies on squad positioning/look out sir instead of guaranteed facetanking the first wound suffered (even applies to lascannon/melta if you take nurgle).
Doesn't have as many chainfist attacks.
Costs many more points.
Forced to challenge.
Capacity to lose morale from 25% casualties
etc
The maths can't be opinionized, there are a combination of pros to mutilators that other units competing for the same niche don't have. You might find the balance of pros/cons against your personal preferences, but your assertion there are no pros to mutilators that aren't shared by a competing unit is verifiably false. Automatically Appended Next Post: Experiment 626 wrote:Their running poses need major conversion work to look decent & more natureal, and they're still from the period of Mr.Gorilla Fists. The 'grinning' skull helm is also laughably cartoonish, and their little 'extras' such as the grenades, skull-on-a-chain & swords are pain in the arse to work with.
I don't know, I think those legs work quite well for a modern "I'm running, leaping and jumping through urban ruin terrain to come and get you" pose, without needing conversion.
I know this model uses a mix of pieces, but the legs are un-reposed and most of the parts are from the CSM and berserker kits that get criticism
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/10/20 08:05:42
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 13:13:38
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Sheokronath wrote: Dozer Blades wrote:CSM can be competitive with a mixology of daemons, either supplemental codex and Forgeworld. For example you can easily rock an army with two Eternal Warrior Juggerlords leading a horde of 3++ Flesh Hounds. I like to run the Chaos Typhon which can get the save up to 2++... It is well costed for a Lord of War and what it can do. Of course KDK is the new hotness.
This is just plugging the holes in a weak codex with a more powerful one. You could say CSM can be competitive with added Riptides or Scatbikes, both totally doable since you can ally anyone with anyone. I think you're point about adding FW is spot on though. Sadly there's still a lot of people out there pretty vehemently against FW which is another problem entirely. It really needs a Dark Eldar style shake up to me.
Look at Imperial super friend armies. It's the exact same type of thing.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 00:19:33
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos
|
Tactical_Spam wrote:Wyldhunt wrote: CT GAMER wrote: Arkaine wrote:Is no one going to mention that we've had the same seven guns since the beginning? While everyone else is getting new toys, what do we have?
Flamer, Meltagun, Plasma gun, Heavy bolter, Autocannon, Missile launcher, Lascannon.
Chaos feels ancient and outdated because it literally is. We've been using pre-Heresy weapons for the past 10,000 years.
Which is how it should be.
The current design studio is clueless and out of good ideas. The last time they caved in to people wanting new chaos toys allthey could manage was to give us lame "robo-space- dragon".  This is 40k not Transformers...
In fact all they can seem to make these days is giant robots.
CSMs need to be made the ancient and powerful veterans of the long war that they should be: they should make modern marines crap their pants stat-wise. they should have veteran and legion abilities, they should get greater bonuses for themed l/marked armies.
They should have high points costs but be absolutly disgustingly powerful. The army should be a warband of insanse eternal killers with some associated toys. Instead we get marines with horns (cosmetic) and a collection of BeastWars Transformer rejects...
they should have dreadclaw droppods, better possessed vehicle options and a wargear/relic section that makes loyalists scream "Heresy!!!".
I never understood all the hate people seem to have for the daemon engine aesthetics. They're demon-possessed semi-organic death machines! How is that not awesome? Although I won't disagree about the Transformers comparisons as I am planning to literally use my dinobot toy as a maulerfiend soon.
Totally agree with the rest of your post though. "Real" chaos marines (as opposed to renegades) seem like their mechanical niche should be having unusually impressive and customizable characters and interesting/gimmicky wargear. I'm fine with the average Joe chaos marine staying pretty close to where he's at, but make that aspiring champion 2 wounds, WS5, 3 Attacks, and give him access to lots of cool purchasable gifts of chaos. A marine statline is (supposedly) still pretty impressive, but aspirin champions are, well, aspiring. They've fallen to chaos in exchange for power and/or are actively trying to earn more chaos power from their gods. The gifts of mutation thing is actually a neat idea, but I'd rather see it be the benefit for an optional formation or something rather than a core mechanic.
In exchange for a loss of ATSKNF, we should get buffs out the buttcheeks on our dudes?
Yes, With appropriate points costs.
GW needs to rethink their whole approach to chaos marines.
Instead of simply making them a spiky flavor of marines with a few minor changes and inferior choices overall (yawn).
They need to commit to chaos marines being the stone cold 10,000 year veterans of war that they are. Guys that are imbued with power by dark gods. Guys that wield forbidden relics of power and are corrupted/changed by the warp.
On the table a csm army should reflect the classic fluff: a small warband of vetran killers gathered around an individual thirsty for power who has drawn followers to him. They should be elite, powerful and flexible in what they represent (via legion rules, veteran abilities, varied wargear, mutatons/gifts. favors based upon chosen marks of chaos and a plethora of relics/artifacts).
They should be infiltrating, Raiding, attacking, coming out of warp gates or dropping on you via dreadclaws. Striking swiftly and bloodily to make up for small numbers. Formations, custom scenarios and army specific tactical objective cards would reinforce these themes.
They should be a small but uber-elite army that lends itself to old-style "herohammer" with powerfl characters leading a warband in search of power and the favor of the gods.
Automatically Appended Next Post: welshhoppo wrote:Experiment 626 wrote:I honestly don't get the hate for the Helldrake and the Fiends... Chaos players had been crying for ages about how we're nothing more than "Marines with spikes", with no identity of our very own, and more Daemon engines has been a pretty common wish among players.
Sure the GW paint schemes make them look more toy'ish, but honestly, the models themselves really aren't that bad, especially with a proper non- GW super bright scheme. They actually look pretty damn mean when given a darker scheme!.
It's the asthetics. They just clash with the rest of the model lines. If they looked more Daemonic, they'd fit in better.
I would have preferred them to be giant/mega-chaos spawn type beasts and/or crazy giant daemon things. Dark warpy and scary.
Instead we get Go-bots...
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/21 00:24:32
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 01:09:45
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Terrifying Rhinox Rider
|
Also, there's no way to customise the army from a rules perspective, other than the reason GW loves loyal SM, why did they take out the Legion rules? CSM players would kill for them at this point no matter how awful they could be, at least it's a start.
I think the reason loyalists get variant special rules is that thy can get people to make second and third armies of the same exact models.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 01:34:57
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
RogueSangre
The Cockatrice Malediction
|
pelicaniforce wrote:
Also, there's no way to customise the army from a rules perspective, other than the reason GW loves loyal SM, why did they take out the Legion rules? CSM players would kill for them at this point no matter how awful they could be, at least it's a start.
I think the reason loyalists get variant special rules is that thy can get people to make second and third armies of the same exact models.
Loyalists get variant chapter rules because they are the good guys and therefore are unique special snowflakes. CSM are the badguys and therefore are faceless mooks. This is why CSM could never work as a small elite army. 1 on 1 a space marine should always beat a CSM because they are the heroes and there's nothing heroic about dying horribly to a superior enemy. This is why chapter masters have better stats than Chaos lords even though many Chaos lords are former chapter masters.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 02:33:31
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut
|
Well you guys can dig a hole really deep in the soil and put all your dreams and aspirations for the next CSM codex, why?...
look at the new Tau codex release and wheep...
For those that don't follow the Tau's rumors, basically there is the Tau codex release and a Warzone Damocles book.
The Tau Codex will be EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ACTUAL 6TH ED ONE.
Yup read that right, THe book will be exactly the smae, only with the new units and formations added in it,BUT.
The new units are also in the Damocles Warzone book soooo, if you allready have the Tau codex, you only need the damocles book to play the new units, the rest of the tau codex is a reprint of the existing one.
Now let that sink in for a sec and thing about the CSM codex..., yes, we will still be stuck with the same crap, just add a few new units and formations and voila...
they're not even trying anymore..., god i hope this is all just one big misunderstanding...
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 14:29:24
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine
|
CT GAMER wrote:GW needs to rethink their whole approach to chaos marines.
Instead of simply making them a spiky flavor of marines with a few minor changes and inferior choices overall (yawn).
If only we had the "Spiky Bits" special rule from 3.5... not even that now
|
Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.
GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 14:54:28
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Except for formations, the Tidewall Rampart, New commander, new Crisis suits, new fire warriors, new riptide variants, XV95 Ghostkeel suit, and the XV128 Stormsurge.
Yep. They're really phoning it in.
fething lazy fethers.
|
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 14:56:35
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
kronk wrote:
Except for formations, the Tidewall Rampart, New commander, new Crisis suits, new fire warriors, new riptide variants, XV95 Ghostkeel suit, and the XV128 Stormsurge.
Yep. They're really phoning it in.
fething lazy fethers.
"New codex..." only adds formations
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 15:16:33
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Morphing Obliterator
|
Tactical_Spam wrote: kronk wrote:
Except for formations, the Tidewall Rampart, New commander, new Crisis suits, new fire warriors, new riptide variants, XV95 Ghostkeel suit, and the XV128 Stormsurge.
Yep. They're really phoning it in.
fething lazy fethers.
"New codex..." only adds formations
It only needs formations to be up there with the top 3 codexes atm, so no biggie. Tau are strong enough atm, the addition of a few key units and nice formation bonuses will take them to that level, the rest of the codexes however need a re haul before getting that kind of treatment
|
CSM 10k points
IG 3k points
Orks 2k points
WoC 3.5k points
VC 2.5k points
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 15:17:42
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Tactical_Spam wrote: kronk wrote:
Except for formations, the Tidewall Rampart, New commander, new Crisis suits, new fire warriors, new riptide variants, XV95 Ghostkeel suit, and the XV128 Stormsurge.
Yep. They're really phoning it in.
fething lazy fethers.
"New codex..." only adds formations
What are you trying to say here? I need more words.
The new codex add new formations, new units, and new options for existing units.
|
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 15:33:34
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
kronk wrote: Tactical_Spam wrote: kronk wrote:
Except for formations, the Tidewall Rampart, New commander, new Crisis suits, new fire warriors, new riptide variants, XV95 Ghostkeel suit, and the XV128 Stormsurge.
Yep. They're really phoning it in.
fething lazy fethers.
"New codex..." only adds formations
What are you trying to say here? I need more words.
The new codex add new formations, new units, and new options for existing units.
The new SM dex added only one new unit. The necron book didnt add any.
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 15:44:00
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
So you're complaining about the tau book getting more, or are you disappointed that the other books got less stuff?
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/21 15:44:28
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 15:59:40
Subject: Why does the Chaos marine codex have such a bad rep?
|
 |
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
|
kronk wrote:So you're complaining about the tau book getting more, or are you disappointed that the other books got less stuff?
Disappointed the other books didnt get much. Necrons could have been retweeked to a fluffier army (not army wide 4+ FnP), SM couldve gotten some newer kits (Ie Honour guard/Command Squad, Dreadnaught) and they couldve fixed terminators (because they are bad)
|
H.B.M.C.- The end hath come! From now on armies will only consist of Astorath, Land Speeder Storms and Soul Grinders!
War Kitten- Vanden, you just taunted the Dank Lord Ezra. Prepare for seven years of fighting reality...
koooaei- Emperor: I envy your nipplehorns. <Magnus goes red. Permanently>
Neronoxx- If our Dreadnought doesn't have sick scuplted abs, we riot.
Frazzled- I don't generally call anyone by a term other than "sir" "maam" "youn g lady" "young man" or " HEY bag!"
Ruin- It's official, we've ran out of things to talk about on Dakka. Close the site. We're done.
mrhappyface- "They're more what you'd call guidlines than actual rules" - Captain Roboute Barbosa
Steve steveson- To be clear, I'd sell you all out for a bottle of scotch and a mid priced hooker.
|
|
 |
 |
|