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I meant the current Corsairs list. Sure, they have some shenanigans. But other factions do the same thing better. Not that I minded - they were still fun!

The new list? Won't know till I get the updated IA11. But in terms of should they get an update, its the current strength that matters.

Personally, I hope they get the BA treatment. Everything about right, with nothing too stupid to field (like Eldar), broken spamfest cookie-cutter armies (like Decurion), or pay-to-win day 1 DLC (Skyhammer).

What you've described sounds amazing on every level. Fluffy. Interesting. Lots of options for customization. Lots of different ways to field them. It sounding reasonably powered without being OP (time will tell) would be an amazing cherry on top!

This has been amazing, mercury. Thanks!

Last few question.
Can a warp hunter get deep strike? Does it also have scout if taken by corsairs?
Do their venoms have to pay the 5 points for deep strike or do they have it already?

Did the vampire raider change at all?

 Swabby wrote:
Did the vampire raider change at all?

What's a vampire raider?

Eldar Super heavy flier.

AV11/11/11 IIRC, but a good amount of transport cap. Costs a bit less than a Revenant, with about the firepower of a Land Raider.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
It is more like saying the imperial guard don't need a buff because space marines are good. Doesn't make sense.

I love what I am hearing so far, do the max units of the tanks get any benefit?

They're eldar, they're not that different even if they're a different faction of eldar, they're still eldar, and Eldar still got a buff

Not comparable to SM vs IG, more like Ultramarines vs White Scars, both marines, but different rules, but a buff to one is a buff to the whole.

Bharring wrote:
Eldar Super heavy flier.

AV11/11/11 IIRC, but a good amount of transport cap. Costs a bit less than a Revenant, with about the firepower of a Land Raider.

You're describing the old statline right? Or is it very much the same? Hoping for a point reduction or something added to spice it up.

Old. All I know of new is this thread. (Someone asked what the Vampyre Raider was).

Eldar factions can be very different.

DE are excessive. Most are excessively fast and hit excessively hard, but die excessively easy. A lot of GEQs with offensive capabilities. Everything is geared to attack immediately. Open topped AV10 DTs. T3 5+ - or even no save at all - troops.

CWE are about perfecting specializations. Wraith constructs are (supposed to be) tough, but slow. DAs are fast, and can do some damage, but crumple to even small arms. Transports offer some of the best defenses in the game, but the units inside can't do anything until they deploy. Melts squads are 100% melts. Better at popping vehicles than SM melts squads, but worse at handling Orks or Guardsmen. And almost all infantry weapons are short range, many at 12" even on shooty units. Just being fast isn't enough - they are supposed to need to pick the right time/place to engage (screw you GW, and your scatterbikes, and WWP in CWE units).

Harlequins are similar to Wyches in some regards. A CC army with t3 across the board. A few 24" range weapons, but in small numbers. Very terrain-dependant. They cost more than MEQs for less survivability than IG. They lack DEs ranged support and tend to need to hide as they move up, not engaging T1.

Those three armies, when not fielded separately, all in theory play completely differently. Certainly more different than UM Marines and BA. I'd say much more different than UM vs CSM. UM vs IG doesn't seem to be that much of a stretch.

Bharring wrote:
DE are excessive. Most are excessively fast and hit excessively hard, but die excessively easy.

This might be the intention, but currently it's not accurate.

DE on the whole aren't particularly fast - especially compared to Eldar. They have fast skimmer transports and most things have fleet... that's about it. None of their troops can move over 6". Same goes for their HQs (not a single option for Wings or a Jetbike), and IIRC their Elites. Also, the Ravager lost the ability that let it move 12" and fire all 3 weapons at full BS.

Similarly, DE don't hit excessively hard. I wish they did, but they just don't. Their weapons weren't amazing in 5th, and nothing's changed since then. Whilst other races can now boast Grav and D-weapons, we're still stuck with poison and dark lances. Whilst Eldar Fire Dragons got boosts to the penetration table and potential BS5, our trueborn got... an increased minimum squad size. And, that's to say nothing of virtually every melee unit in the book having pitiful melee ability (S3-4 attacks with no special rules are worthless on what are supposed to be glass cannon units).

Bharring wrote:
So should CSM not get a buff because Skyhammer is OP?

Doesn't make a lot of sense. Corsairs are decidedly not OP. Probably weaker than any main book faction. Including the much-lamented CSM and BA.

This is literally one of the most inaccurate statements made in this forum.
Be realistic. I'm glad the army was updated too, but to claim that BA and CSM's might be stronger is purely denial.

Than old Corsairs?

What had you so scared? A2s3 ap5 @24" on t3 5+ models at 9ppm?

A beatstick with s3t3 and a power weapon?

Bharring wrote:
Than old Corsairs?

What had you so scared? A2s3 ap5 @24" on t3 5+ models at 9ppm?

A beatstick with s3t3 and a power weapon?

You talked about the updated one from what I quoted.

Old one would still be stronger than CSM's. Blood Angels I'd call even.

Oh. Miscommunication.

By 'Corsairs are...', I was referring to how Corsairs are, not how they will be.

I was refuting the idea that the Corsairs shouldn't get buffed because Eldar are already OP.

Rypher wrote:This has been amazing, mercury. Thanks!

Last few question.
Can a warp hunter get deep strike? Does it also have scout if taken by corsairs?
Do their venoms have to pay the 5 points for deep strike or do they have it already?

Both Corsair Venoms and Warp Hunters have to pay but it's cheap. DE Venoms therefore aren't overshadowed as they get DS automatically and flickerfields.

Swabby wrote:Did the vampire raider change at all?

All I saw is the transport one and I don't think so other than maybe some wargear options.

Bharring wrote:

DE are excessive. Most are excessively fast and hit excessively hard,

Dark Eldar aren't that fast anymore, not in the era of Skyhammer and well, CWE, Harlequins, and Corsairs all being faster than them. Also they don't hit very hard anymore. They used to be glass cannons, now they're mostly just glass.

Also...

Corsair Vyper (cost: CWE Vyper)
Stats: It's a Corsair Venom minus ten points, minus transport capacity. Same upgrades so you can load it up with splinter cannons, chain snares, kinetic shroud, void burners, etc. Squadron size 1-6.

I love what I'm hearing! Sounds like it's dripping with flavor and options that will make corsairs a bit easier to keep on the table. I guess I'll be finishing up my corsair conversions in the near future. As has been pointed out, it sort of feels like they might end up overshadowing dark eldar a bit, but my truekin will still have their perks. I mostly run my dark eldar with an emphasis on assault, and it seems like we'll still do that better than corsairs. Plus, I really enjoy incubi, scourges, etc. Clearly my true kin just need to hang out with their pirate buddies some more.

I've seen some complaints here and there about Corsairs being OP somehow. What am I missing? From what I've read, everything seems to be pretty reasonable unless people are afraid of toughness 3 jetpacks with a 3+ save. Corsais seem like they're still fast and a bit more shooty options and rebalanced costs. The nastier tricks (webway portals) are already available through dark eldar.

Uh, question: Are gyrinxes still an option for void dreamers (or an option at all), and if so, what do they do? If not, what am I to do without my beloved space kitties?!

If they removed the gyrinx I am going to be pissed.

Corsair Vampire Raider (same cost as existing Vampire Raider).

- superheavy flier (hover), supersonic
- 12 hps, 11/11/11
- Kinetic Shroud - no titan holofields
- Deep Strike
- Strafing Run
- 30 model transport capacity, 3 units may disembark per turn
- Two TL Pulse lasers, scatter laser
- Can replace those for either TL Phoenix Missile launchers or TL Pulsar for fre, but then its transport capacity drops to 20

Not sure if there's a non-corsair version in the book as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyldhunt wrote:

Uh, question: Are gyrinxes still an option for void dreamers (or an option at all), and if so, what do they do? If not, what am I to do without my beloved space kitties?!

Space kitties don't appear in the wargear section... However they may be on the Void Dreamer datasheet which we have yet to see.

Lol@ the IoM bias

CWE, DE, Corsairs and Harlequins are all completely different factions.

Harlequins and CWE share two weapons in their codexes: Shiriken Pistols and Shuriken Cannons.

How many weapons are shared between IG and SM?

Corsairs are a "halfway" faction, yes. More different than SMs and, oh, SW DA BA, but yeah they share some guns and vehicles. "Buffing corsairs is just a buff to Eldar" is basically saying "buffing grey knights is a buff to SMs-they have rhinos and land raiders and bolt weapons, they're basically the same!!"

mercury14 wrote:
Corsair Vampire Raider (same cost as existing Vampire Raider).

- superheavy flier (hover), supersonic
- 12 hps, 11/11/11
- Kinetic Shroud - no titan holofields
- Deep Strike
- Strafing Run
- 30 model transport capacity, 3 units may disembark per turn
- Two TL Pulse lasers, scatter laser
- Can replace those for either TL Phoenix Missile launchers or TL Pulsar for fre, but then its transport capacity drops to 20

Not sure if there's a non-corsair version in the book as well.

Woah, what do the Phoenix missile launchers do that warrants them being worth a large blast strD pulsar!?!

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:


Woah, what do the Phoenix missile launchers do that warrants them being worth a large blast strD pulsar!?!

They're heavy 3, S5, AP3.

So... Probably the dumbest weapon option in the history of 40k.

DE are excessive. Most are excessively fast and hit excessively hard, but die excessively easy. A lot of GEQs with offensive capabilities. Everything is geared to attack immediately. Open topped AV10 DTs. T3 5+ - or even no save at all - troops.

With one exception again - Haemonculus Covens can take a riduculous beating when kitted out properly. Grotesque- and Pain Engine-based armies have extremely high toughness, many wounds and feel no pain as standard.

So would you say.... That they are excessively durable?

All that was based on the design, not current power level. We all know CWE is cranked up to 11 right now.

Thanks, Mercury! I can't wait for the book!

(What's the cost on the Raider?)

mercury14 wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:


Woah, what do the Phoenix missile launchers do that warrants them being worth a large blast strD pulsar!?!

They're heavy 3, S5, AP3.

So... Probably the dumbest weapon option in the history of 40k.

I, they uh, watintha, huh?

I can't wrap my head around the concept of them believing that those two are of similar capabilities.

Do the nightwing interceptor and Phoenix bomber still have shrouded, or do they have the kinetic shields now? Also, does the bomber have bombs now?

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:


I, they uh, watintha, huh?

I can't wrap my head around the concept of them believing that those two are of similar capabilities.

Do the nightwing interceptor and Phoenix bomber still have shrouded, or do they have the kinetic shields now? Also, does the bomber have bombs now?

LOL does the bomber bomb? No that would be sillypants. I'm fine with it though because I want my Phoenix to hang back with dancer and shoot, not get in rapid-fire bolt gun range just to lay an egg. The Phoenix Bomber has stealth instead of Shrouded now and dropped -20 points. It's also squadronable (1-2). But it can deep strike instead of coming off your board edge which is cool. It can purchase a kinetic shroud and has the same weapons and alternate weapons as before.

Note that the Kinetic Shroud gives 4++ re-rollable to anything deep striking so the Phoenix is mostly invincible the turn it comes in and won't have to jink for a couple turns.

The Nightwing is the same, lost shrouded but has stealth - also it has agile which is +1 cover save. Same shrouds, same deep strike option. The Nightwing also dropped -20 points.

mercury14 wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:


Woah, what do the Phoenix missile launchers do that warrants them being worth a large blast strD pulsar!?!

They're heavy 3, S5, AP3.

So... Probably the dumbest weapon option in the history of 40k.

Yes but like the Phoenix Bomber that is for EACH Phoenix Launcher, so technically that weapon options brings you Heavy 6 S5 AP3 against two targets since SH can fire at multiple targets.

Still I prefer the Pulsar too, just correcting a minor oversight.

Glad they dropped shrouded for stealth, was always a waste to have 1+ cover on my interceptors. Gonna give them kinetic fields any way, much prefer an invul save over cover. Especially when I would rather have them firing at full ballistic skill.

Please, PLEASE tell me the interceptors are able to squad up!!!

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:

Please, PLEASE tell me the interceptors are able to squad up!!!

Yes they are. Might be max size 2 I forget... But they can.

Can the ghostwalkers take heavy weapons? Or are they just like rangers that can take las blasters and a few assault weapons if they want? Seen like a strange unit, I don't understand the concept of them yet. Are they troops?

Im confused, there is the raider with a 30 man capacity but no assault ramp, which can trade ten spots for a twin linked pulsar. Is there another super heavy aircraft? Because that seems like garbage for the price of almost 2 knights.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Can the ghostwalkers take heavy weapons? Or are they just like rangers that can take las blasters and a few assault weapons if they want? Seen like a strange unit, I don't understand the concept of them yet. Are they troops?

Im confused, there is the raider with a 30 man capacity but no assault ramp, which can trade ten spots for a twin linked pulsar. Is there another super heavy aircraft? Because that seems like garbage for the price of almost 2 knights.

Yes they're obsec troops. I think Ghostwalker Bands are an odd unit that may not see much play with the very good Reavers and Cloud Dancers also occupying the troop slot. They start with lasblasters and then can swap them out for longrifles (+1 point) or Brace of Pistols + CCW (which counts as five CCWs) for free.

When you mathammer it out though, 5 lasblasters are superior to 5 longrifles against MEQ, GEQ, and TEQ is a tie. T5 and above longrifles are superior. I think the +1 point is about right. 1:5 Ghostwalkers can take a flamer, fusion gun, shredder, or blaster for +5 or +10 points. They can also take Haywire grenades for +25 but the whole squad gets them. They can take Corsair jet packs for +5 pts each but I'd probably keep them cheap and hide them. It's also notable that you can customize each model in the squad so you can have a longrifle guy, a blaster guy, and three close-combat guys to guard them. An infiltrating stealthed blaster isn't bad, but the other guns have too-short range. Of course with Reckless Abandon they can shoot-n'-scoot if you're feeling daring or have them well-supported.

They're infiltrating, scouting stealthed Reavers without armor upgrades. I guess you have to ask if that's worth 2 ppm. I don't think they're bad but with all the harsh firepower Corsairs can bring I doubt they'll contribute much in the way of punishment and will therefore be objective grabbers who GTG when it gets hot around them.

Of course with D-weapons, princes, and an army bristling with other nastiness, are people really going to pay attention to some Ghostwalkers?

That's a great rundown. It's a bit sad, I've got 20 pathfinder models that haven't done anything but sit on the shelf or a backfield objective for something like 3 editions now. I wish they had the options those corsair devastator guys have, the new variable strength and ap guns really feel like what a bunch of pathfinders shooting at you should be like. I like the idea of a minimum squad with a blaster, but I don't see how that earns a place over virtually anything else that's been leaked.