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 streamdragon wrote:
I've been doing this entire expansion as a prot warrior. I love tanking. I have tanked everything from original ZG to Wrath, took a break for Pandas and then tanked (admittedly through Raid Finder since I was basically guild-less) all of WoD. But the guild I'm in is stocked on tanks so I DPS.

Holy crap do I hate DPSing as a warrior. Did Arcway last night for the first time. I must have died a dozen times because lolexplosions! I forgot how much blizzard hates melee dps being happy in their game.

All 3 of my 110s are primary melee DPS and I rarely die unless I'm being dumb and ignoring mechanics. The absolute lack of reliable heals are the only thing that really screws Arms over at least in terms of survivability.

Prot Warrior has been nerfed. It's getting retuned again soon. I usually run with a Guardian Druid and he just doesn't die. Ever. I've heard the same about Blood DKs. Vengeance DH has been nerfed so not sure where they stand. Warriors are definitely not the strongest tanks right now. At best they're in the mix.

As someone who mains Blood DK, I can assure you warrior is better than we are.

But it could have been worse. Poor Brewmasters. One day you will be useful again.

I have to agree with the point that Warriors are among the strongest, if not the strongest. The most recent hotfix increased rage generation but nerfed Ignore pain by 33%. Considering you can spam it more often, and there are traits on your weapon that slightly increase the amount of absorption from IP, it'll overall probably be just as good. And Blood DKs are solid, but they are not better than warriors. The only ones that are on the same level are Guardian Druids.

Brewmasters are in a weird mix right now. They CAN be really good, but you have to play them extremely well.

been doing pretty good lately, haven't had too much trouble getting mythics or raids, so far the only one I haven't been able to get through is court of stars, was probably just a bad group. No one knew where to go our how the fights worked.

It's kind of funny seeing all the bossy people get so pissy when half the raid group wipes in the eye room. 2 minutes worth of explaining the fight would save them 15 minutes worth of bellyaching. I had a quest to get something from him, but I already killed him and it wouldn't let me loot him. I thought it would at least let me get my quest loot. So now I'll have to go back tonight.. they all reset on tuesdays right?

Also found a quest for an alt skin for my warblades.. I had to kill some giant bat thing in Surumar, was a real pain and took me like 15 tries since the whole fight is up the air.. but I got em.. they're all cool and boney looking now.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I have to agree with the point that Warriors are among the strongest, if not the strongest. The most recent hotfix increased rage generation but nerfed Ignore pain by 33%. Considering you can spam it more often, and there are traits on your weapon that slightly increase the amount of absorption from IP, it'll overall probably be just as good. And Blood DKs are solid, but they are not better than warriors. The only ones that are on the same level are Guardian Druids.

Brewmasters are in a weird mix right now. They CAN be really good, but you have to play them extremely well.

I haven't tanked since the change, but apparently the rotation is now Shield Slam+IP, spam Devestate for SS procs, nothing else. Ignore Pain is a bad mechanic and it's just not working out. First it was broken (I saw it over 4mil before any of the tuning) and people say it caps out at like 750k now?

Something seems off.

Almost as if they're hiding something.

The world quest rep buff they have going right now is nice. I'm halfway to exalted with nightfallen now.

But now I have some quests I have to do in the emerald nightmare and court of stars. I can't get a group that can get through court of stars. Every time I try they fall apart on or soon after the first boss. People just get lost and drop out. I got an emerald nightmare raid last night in LFR, but my quest items wouldn't drop :( Someone in the raid said it has to be in a premade group and not LFR for the quest to work .. that's dumb :( hopefully I can get a group tonight

They do drop in LFR too (which is a bit dumb in my opinion since LFR is just welfare loot for no effort) so it seems odd that you did not.

Wish I could remember the name of the quest so I could look it up while I'm bored at work, it's an extra quest I got for my artifact weapon I think, after I finished the regular class campaign. I have to get a lens or something from the eye boss. Killed him twice so far in LFR and nothing, the area was highlighted on my map and all, I looked everywhere in the room of death after we killed it, nothing I can click on or anything.

And I have another quest where I have to get some kind of corrupted essences or something, I guess from trash mobs since I need 30 of it. Haven't seen that at all either.

Now I just got a 3rd quest there as part of my surumar storyline, dunno what I have to do there for that, i just skimmed it last night.

I just checked it up and the quests do indeed thankfully require Normal and above.

So if you want your extra stuff you will actually have to put in effort for it instead of getting it for free.

It's not like normal raids are hard - comparable to mythic dungeons I'd say, with early bosses being easier and later bosses being harder - but you can't AFK kill them unless your raid is overgeared.

 Ashiraya wrote:
They do drop in LFR too (which is a bit dumb in my opinion since LFR is just welfare loot for no effort) so it seems odd that you did not.

Careful your elitist tag is showing.


As far as Heroics, what's a decent gear level for a tank to be running them? I'm sitting on 824, mainly because of an amulet I'm having a hard time replacing.

810 is what the premade group function suggests for heroic dungeons.

For heroic raids, it varies considerably depending on bosses. I'd get 845ish if you intend to pug the initial easy ones (only 840 should be enough for Nythendra and Dragons) but Ursoc, Cenarius and Xavius will require high 850s to 860s.

This is naturally lower if you raid with a guild (which I recommend) as the added coordination and more reliable members means you do not have to rely on gear as much (except Ursoc who is mostly a gear check).

 Frankenberry wrote:
Careful your elitist tag is showing.

Most bosses on normal are no harder than a mythic dungeon. LFR is more comparable to a normal dungeon, if that.

That you have to put in some semblance of effort to complete the most advanced quests seems like a reasonable thing.

Got through court of stars last night, was pretty fun.

I'm not saying raids shouldn't be hard, I just wish it were easier to find a raid group. I know part of the problem is I'm DPS and there's 1000 other DPSers that all want the same thing I do. I'm not in a guild, and don't want one. I'm a casual player and I prefer a more casual experience, and it's a little bummable that the only way to continue my character's story is to get a raid group.. dunno why they can't just have the quests work in LFR, and still have tougher raids for the guilds that want to just melt monsterfaces and get uberloot.

My primary alt is also a DPS, and the competition is indeed brutal. The solution is clear; start and lead your own group.

I didn't want to lead my own group, since I don't know it well enough and I don't want everyone to yell at me when my noobness messes it all up

 Necros wrote:
I didn't want to lead my own group, since I don't know it well enough and I don't want everyone to yell at me when my noobness messes it all up

Last time I had an organised group I quit WoW for a few months after the vitriol I got caused me a massive panic attack. Someone had dumped Loot Master on me at some point, and it went downhill from there. Trying to explain that you're trying, but nobody willing to take up the mantle themselves and instead being content yelling at you was not the best experience. I really don't want to do PUGs outside raid finder; the chances of me having a panic attack at some point during them are too high.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Careful your elitist tag is showing.

Most bosses on normal are no harder than a mythic dungeon. LFR is more comparable to a normal dungeon, if that.

That you have to put in some semblance of effort to complete the most advanced quests seems like a reasonable thing.

You'd have a valid complaint if LFR dropped gear on par with even Normal raids, but it doesn't. The ilvl is gak, really, and a handful of World Quests will give you gear on its equal and they're even easier.

World quests generally give 825-830 in my experience, unless you get a lucky warforge (which LFR gear can too).

LFR gear is a decent entry point before normal - not quite on par with mythic dungeons but easier - which is entirely good enough.


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 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I didn't want to lead my own group, since I don't know it well enough and I don't want everyone to yell at me when my noobness messes it all up

Last time I had an organised group I quit WoW for a few months after the vitriol I got caused me a massive panic attack. Someone had dumped Loot Master on me at some point, and it went downhill from there. Trying to explain that you're trying, but nobody willing to take up the mantle themselves and instead being content yelling at you was not the best experience. I really don't want to do PUGs outside raid finder; the chances of me having a panic attack at some point during them are too high.

To be fair, making one of your own from the beginning and making it very clear you won't take any bull is very different from having leadership shoved onto you at random.

 Ashiraya wrote:
World quests generally give 825-830 in my experience, unless you get a lucky warforge (which LFR gear can too).

Your experience is quite different than mine because my ilvl is 845 and I've geared almost exclusively through World Quests and I have lots of straight up ilvl 835 pieces from them.

LFR gear is a decent entry point before normal - not quite on par with mythic dungeons but easier - which is entirely good enough.

Right, so I don't understand the attitude of, "Oh, they're just giving loot away to people that don't want to try," when the loot they are awarding isn't even that good.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Right, so I don't understand the attitude of, "Oh, they're just giving loot away to people that don't want to try," when the loot they are awarding isn't even that good.

It is awarding mediocre loot for almost no effort, yes. That is not a complaint.

I would have been a lot more vocal about it if it had dropped 850. The problems LFR posed in the past (forcing you to run it to get upgrades for the slots you did not have normal or higher drops for yet) are now largely gone thanks to mythic dungeons.

As for world quests, 835 pieces do appear, but they are quite rare (again, in my experience).

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Necros wrote:
I didn't want to lead my own group, since I don't know it well enough and I don't want everyone to yell at me when my noobness messes it all up

Last time I had an organised group I quit WoW for a few months after the vitriol I got caused me a massive panic attack. Someone had dumped Loot Master on me at some point, and it went downhill from there. Trying to explain that you're trying, but nobody willing to take up the mantle themselves and instead being content yelling at you was not the best experience. I really don't want to do PUGs outside raid finder; the chances of me having a panic attack at some point during them are too high.

That's half the reason I quit wow during WoD. I ran a guild, and was also raid lead. When people stopped showing up do to X and Y reasons, it was frustrating trying to replace them and recruit more people, and eventually everything fell apart. Now I co-run the guild and I sit back and let him raid lead (even though I have more experience then all of them, I just let them do their own thing and I sit back and relax).

Anyone else feeling burnt out? I have 3 110's. It just feels like everything at end game is 1) do Emissary quests 2) do Keystones 3) do LFR for chance at TF/Legendary 4) raid. WoW's PvP has been awful for ages.

Really feeling the Hamster on a wheel vibe right now.

Not at all. Being a roleplayer adds an extra dimension to every gear piece ('could this work in a new set?') and ensures I have always something to do.

My guild is pushing through Heroic and aiming for mythic and I can't wait!

I'm feeling the burn as well. Lots of great new stuff to do in Legion, but once you do em it gets boring real fast doing em over and over. That's always been my problem with this game though. I need shiny new stuff to do, or I get bored and leave.

I got my gear up to 846 now. Heroics are easy. Mythics can be a challenge but I really don't like sitting there refreshing the LFG list over and over till someone finally lets me join. LFR is fun, but my quests I have for raids only work in normal mode, so that means I'll never finish them.

class hall missions seem like a waste of time now too. The rare ones aren't worth it, you spend 1000 resources and in the end you do a dungeon and get an item lower than everything you're already wearing. I'm close to getting my pathfinder achievement though, I'm almost exalted with surumar.. maybe 2 more days worth of world quests there, then I can hopefully finish that quest line.

My biggest issue with WoW since MoP has been that there is no spec variety. That is to say that the main variable separating a character of X class with Y spec is iLvl. So one fire mage is the same as all the other fire mages (barring that you use a different of the three spec options for a tier and take a notable hit on DPS for doing so). It felt like there was a strong penalty for trying to customize a character verses the talent trees that provided more wiggle room. I played WoD for a bit and got the distinct sense of that problem being stronger than ever. So my question is; does Legion change that? Because it looks to me like they have shifted around the system by which one improves their character without changing the fact that it isn't your character; just another X class of Y spec.

Though I do see some irony in the artifact system basically putting watered-down talent trees back in.

The artifact tree is an additional progression line (parallel to improving your gear), not a talent tree as such.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Though I do see some irony in the artifact system basically putting watered-down talent trees back in.

Not really though.

Unlike talents, you'll eventually get all of the artifact traits so there are no "bad" choices.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Though I do see some irony in the artifact system basically putting watered-down talent trees back in.

Not really though.

Unlike talents, you'll eventually get all of the artifact traits so there are no "bad" choices.

There are "bad" choices. Moreso for certain specs. Arms for example needs to pickup Shattered Defenses ASAP and then Corrupted Blood of I can't spell that name, and in certain way or you're gimping yourself severely until a respec or you fill up your tree. I'm sure someone is is at or near the filler trait, but I really doubt most people are even at 25+ traits already.

http://www.wowhead.com/artifact-calc/warrior/arms/GaaxIkBHABRxAUcwFHYBR5A0fANH0DR-A1TAEA

That route gives you your two best ST Golden Traits and your best 3/3 ST trait.

With Havoc it doesn't really matter. Going left is better for ST, right is better for AoE.

Y'know I made a DK that I boosted to 100 in WoD when I pre-ordered Legion and that was the character I got to 110 first - was a blast. I love all of the content I got to experience.

Now? The novelty has worn off - I'm not going to raid because of my desire to remain interested in other projects, so I'll live vicariously through YouTube in that regard. Heroics are...heroics; the same 5 mans I had to run initially, just filled with mobs that hit harder. And mythics..eh, they're difficult (mainly because I'm still working on my rotation) sometimes, but if I get a solid group they're a joke.

I like the expansion so far but I've gotta be honest, I have zero motivation to see all of the same content again on another character. I get that there are differences depending on class and faction, but I'm still going in a giant circle around the Broken Islands helping people return baskets of fish because...well, because.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it's not even leveling in the same areas that really bugs me, it's the rep grind that's going to break my interest.

I'm getting the distinct sense that the answer to my question is no...

 Ashiraya wrote:
As someone who mains Blood DK, I can assure you warrior is better than we are.

But it could have been worse. Poor Brewmasters. One day you will be useful again.

The only thing Blizzard seems to have settled on with regards to monks is what they *DON'T* want monks doing.

I usually play Mistweaver, but it no longer feels very "monkish". It's all zapping people with green mist now. I've considered playing Brewmaster, but my brief sojourn into the class while I was getting the artifact weapon left me very confused.

I pull out the DPS spec from time to time, but it just feels bland.