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I'm completely honest about it. Yes I could get all my armies painted if I really wanted to, but I only paint when I feel like it.
I'm not going to force myself doing something against my will for the enjoyment of elitists that can't enjoy a game unless people satisfy their made up terms and conditions.

The amount of fully finished armies that regularly come on the table at the GW I frequent can be counted on one hand and my Necrons are one of them.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Elemental wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush?

Colour-blindness immediately springs to mind.

Colorblind people are not blind in the strictest sense. Plenty of colorblind people dress themselves and don't look like a mismatched mess. They also have friends or family they can ask if they question their own color choices. Not an excuse.

I'm sorry but that statement reeks of ignorance.
How is being colourblind not a valid excuse for not wanting/being able to paint? This is LEAGUES apart from dressing yourself.

I could ask my friends or family about their opinions about my color choice. But wouldn't it be a waste of both my time and money to buy/use paints I myself cannot tell apart? Isn't it first and foremost important that I like my own army regardless of how others see it?
I try my dearest when I'm painting but being colorblind is a big deal when you're painting. Suggesting otherwise just shows your ignorance on the subject.

I have shakey hands and it really helps me drybrush quickly, if not particularly neatly!

That said, it is a massive pain for everything else.

Over the decades I have learnt techniques to minimise the effect, but it is still a problem for detail work.

Alcibiades wrote:
I live in a three-room apartment and my wife has categorically forbidden me to paint indoors, leaving... the balcony. It's about to get -20 outside.

Sea of gray it is for me!

There are no fumes from water-based paint... The glue does produce fumes though - that's okay?

But if she's insisting then:



Problem solved.

I don't see very well. I use glasses where the lenses are -14 dioptres strong, and they steal a lot of lux. It's really difficult for me to paint in the winter when there's limited daylight, because when I'm not working in daylight I have difficulties seeing the fine details.

I prefer to assemble my models in the winter and paint in the spring and summer. Unfortunately, this spring my father passed away suddenly and I couldn't get myself to paint much.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I live in a three-room apartment and my wife has categorically forbidden me to paint indoors, leaving... the balcony. It's about to get -20 outside.

Sea of gray it is for me!

There are no fumes from water-based paint... The glue does produce fumes though - that's okay?

But if she's insisting then:



Problem solved.

Very few paints are purely water based. The hobby paints we use do have fumes, but not a lot, you'd have to be quite sensitive to have a problem with it.

I don't think exhausting the air would be a great plan if it's -20 outside, surely it'd massively increase your heating bill.

On thing that I've seen mentioned a few times here, but doesn't make sense to me, is that people aren't ok with unpainted models, but will then say things like "just slop some paint on so they aren't unpainted" and all of a sudden it's ok?

I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

 Tinkrr wrote:
I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Nobody is saying that. When they say "slap some paint on it" they mean "paint it quickly with basic techniques", not literally "put some random blobs of paint on the model so it's technically not bare plastic".

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Nobody is saying that. When they say "slap some paint on it" they mean "paint it quickly with basic techniques", not literally "put some random blobs of paint on the model so it's technically not bare plastic".

That's exactly what people are saying when they're discussing people who don't like painting but want them to paint the minis. Those people will probably go for something in mind but will do it so quickly it'll be indistinguishable from their original intent and it will make them dislike the aspect even more, thus reducing the quality.

As for no one saying that, you even quoted a person who said that:

e. Again, if you can put them together, you can slop paint on them. Not an excuse.

Oh dman I really can't take you seriously. I'm painting striping alot of my stuff plus I have Around 80 cultists atleast to paint. Sorry for not shading or high lighting I don't have time for it plus due to ADHD I have a short attention span soo

While I don't like playing my own models unpainted, I do when I don't have them ready (really slow painter and also hate painting).

I do prefer playing against people with painted armies; looks so much better and is easier (for the most part) to tell what things are too. I'm not going to browbeat someone over not painting, but it is not hard to paint the odd guy or two every now and then almost regardless of any other demands on your time or ability.

 Tinkrr wrote:
On thing that I've seen mentioned a few times here, but doesn't make sense to me, is that people aren't ok with unpainted models, but will then say things like "just slop some paint on so they aren't unpainted" and all of a sudden it's ok?

I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Yes, it might seem strange, but there is it. People seem to recognise and appreciate if a guy has put some effort into his figures, even if they aren't technically very good.

Personally I think that's elitist. These days I don't even assemble my models. I just put the box on the table. You can create any army much more quickly and the modern box artwork is really a lot more attractive than my painting skill.

Oh if only I could do that. My GW has a PE unpainted model policy which makes people have to paint to avoid being penalized. Priming gets you off the hook.

I have started to paint but being a full time student devotes a lot of my attention away from having an army done in a month.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
On thing that I've seen mentioned a few times here, but doesn't make sense to me, is that people aren't ok with unpainted models, but will then say things like "just slop some paint on so they aren't unpainted" and all of a sudden it's ok?

I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Yes, it might seem strange, but there is it. People seem to recognise and appreciate if a guy has put some effort into his figures, even if they aren't technically very good.

Personally I think that's elitist. These days I don't even assemble my models. I just put the box on the table. You can create any army much more quickly and the modern box artwork is really a lot more attractive than my painting skill.

I assume you're being sarcastic... but I do find it odd why people care so much if another player is making progress even if it's impossibly slow and they'll never get anywhere with it or they are painting so poorly and despise it so much that the army is going to look like gak. It almost seems sadistic to me, like "I suffered through this, so you have to as well"

I'm largely indifferent if I play against a half painted army or a badly painted army or an unpainted army. They all look similarly bad on the table as far as I'm concerned, if I come up against such an opponent I just roll with it and try and enjoy the game.

Most people probably do recognise if someone is making the effort to get their army painted even if it's slow going.

I've played against people who apologised for not having yet finished their army due to time pressure, etc, and had a good game.

The question of playing someone with a grey army has never arisen in my experience, though.

Without putting any moral attitude to it, I think everyone would agree that people who want to play wargames with painted armies do not want to play with unpainted armies, and there's no reason to expect them to.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Most people probably do recognise if someone is making the effort to get their army painted even if it's slow going.

I recognise the effort, I just don't expect the effort. I guess that's what I find a bit strange, the expectation that people have to be progressing their army even if it's unreasonably slow, they hate doing it or looks like gak. If people are painting slowly but still enjoying it and enjoying watching their army grow then I respect that. It took me 3 years to assemble and paint my Tyranid army (though I didn't play any games in its unfinished state because I had other models to use), so I respect that.

It's just if I'm lowering my standard to the point of playing with an unpainted, half painted or poorly painted army, it doesn't really affect me whether the person is making progress or just not trying at all, it still looks like gak on the other side of the table to me

Without putting any moral attitude to it, I think everyone would agree that people who want to play wargames with painted armies do not want to play with unpainted armies, and there's no reason to expect them to.

Of course, if someone doesn't want to play against an unpainted army that's fine by me. I just find it an odd attitude when people are willing to accept partially painted armies as long as someone is making progress even if it looks like gak and/or the person hates doing it and/or they aren't going to get it finished in my life time.

It's not that I don't understand the viewpoint, I do, people are giving concession for perceived effort... I just find it a little bit amusing that it has become the default position of so many people to operate that way when in some cases (of course not all, probably not even most) it almost seems sadistic when the opponent doesn't have the desire to make time for it for whatever reason.

I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

That one makes more sense to me because a painted army that sits on a shelf doesn't personally affect me, however an unpainted army that is on the gaming table does.

Also I do like the look of a fully painted army and I think it looks just as good on the shelf as it does on a table, so if people want to leave it on the shelf that makes sense to me.

Paint, don't paint, I don't care. Just don't be TFG when we play. I could care less about whether you paint or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
A cadian model can literally be three colors (black, green, flesh) and a wash, and assuming you really hate painting, shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to paint (minus drying time). Chaos demons, space marines, eldar guardians, and fire warriors are equally easy with basic techniques. If I'm clipping one of those minis from a sprue, making a small effort to remove visible mold lines, and then glue those parts together, it takes 10-15 minutes. Are we really debating how difficult the whole process is if done to basic standards? We're mincing words over minutes?

Oh FFS, it's that easy for people with no disabilities that get in the way of painting. Did you forget the context of the statement I was objecting to?

Nope, I read you loud and clear. I do not see people in wheelchairs or people with carpal tunnel or people with serious cognitive disorders at my FLGS, local conventions, or tourneys. Where they exist in our hobby, they are a tiny minority. No one is saying the person with MS is lazy for not painting his minis. I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Or are you saying our hobby attracts a disproportionate amount of people with disabilities?

*Read the title, skimmed the first page, went to the second to last page* Yep, this is about what I expected.

Thankfully all the old farts in my club point blankly refuse to use any unpainted figures in games, so the issue never arises. Its not even a rule... The use of unpainted figures just isnt something that anyone has ever thought of doing.

Perhaps its the fact that we play historical as well as fantasy/sci-fi we have that attitude, but even the guys who dont do historicals have the same attitude.

For us its all about the visual aspect and the total experience of the hobby. We dont all have the same amount of time to paint, but we all seem to get armies done. It just takes time, such as my Dwarf army that took 11 months to complete.

I guess the advantage to us is we have no need to play unpainted stuff as while painting the new army we have other stuff painted that we play with. So as one army gets finished, it gets played with and the next army joins the painting queue.

As I say, it works for our group as everyone has the same mindset and its never even arisen as an option. Even our boardgames, such as Imperial Assault get painted before use.

But I suspect we are something of an oddity in general, but even those gamers from other clubs who visit from time to time, only have painted stuff.

Do I expect others to do the same? No I dont. Its a personal hobby and what other people do is none of my business. Would I play someone with an unpainted army... No, I probably wouldnt to be honest. For me the whole experience is about the spectacle. In the same way, I will only game with decent terrain on a table. To me, a wargame is two fully painted armies on a good looking terrain table.

Is that elitist?

Dunno... Dont care. Its the way I do my hobby and thats all that matters. Couldnt careless what others do or what they think of the way I do my hobby. It matters not a jot to me.

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

I personally don't understand the people who paint but have no intention of ever playing. It's like, sure, they might look good on a shelf, but if you just get some guys who look cool, it just seems like a waste of time and money to me. I just don't get it. At least model cars/planes and such have some public knowledge, like you can put it somewhere for other people to see and they can understand a car.

Big P wrote:
Thankfully all the old farts in my club point blankly refuse to use any unpainted figures in games, so the issue never arises. Its not even a rule... The use of unpainted figures just isnt something that anyone has ever thought of doing.

Perhaps its the fact that we play historical as well as fantasy/sci-fi we have that attitude, but even the guys who dont do historicals have the same attitude.

For us its all about the visual aspect and the total experience of the hobby. We dont all have the same amount of time to paint, but we all seem to get armies done. It just takes time, such as my Dwarf army that took 11 months to complete.

I guess the advantage to us is we have no need to play unpainted stuff as while painting the new army we have other stuff painted that we play with. So as one army gets finished, it gets played with and the next army joins the painting queue.

As I say, it works for our group as everyone has the same mindset and its never even arisen as an option. Even our boardgames, such as Imperial Assault get painted before use.

But I suspect we are something of an oddity in general, but even those gamers from other clubs who visit from time to time, only have painted stuff.

Do I expect others to do the same? No I dont. Its a personal hobby and what other people do is none of my business. Would I play someone with an unpainted army... No, I probably wouldnt to be honest. For me the whole experience is about the spectacle. In the same way, I will only game with decent terrain on a table. To me, a wargame is two fully painted armies on a good looking terrain table.

Is that elitist?

Dunno... Dont care. Its the way I do my hobby and thats all that matters. Couldnt careless what others do or what they think of the way I do my hobby. It matters not a jot to me.

I'd be interested to hear how many newcomers your LGS gets. Honestly, that attitude sounds terrible and I'd rather not play there, painted or not if that's the attitude of most of the gamers at your club.

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

If I have to play against unpainted miniatures it greatly lessens the fun and enjoyment of 40k. I know this is true for many other people as well. On the other hand, if someone collects, paints and doesn't play, no one is affected by that.

Let us compare 40k to a cake competition. The goal is for everyone to make a delicious cake, then everyone will eat from the cakes and judge wich one is the best. People who bring unpainted armies are like the people who just bring a cake bought in the supermarket to the competition. It takes away the fun of the competition for those people who put in a lot of effort to bake a cake themselves.

Actually, a person painting and not playing does affect their local gaming scene. It affects them by depriving them of a potential opponent. Although it's not really any different in that regard than choosing to game at a different location, or not being into tabletop gaming at all.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

If I have to play against unpainted miniatures it greatly lessens the fun and enjoyment of 40k. I know this is true for many other people as well. On the other hand, if someone collects, paints and doesn't play, no one is affected by that.

Let us compare 40k to a cake competition. The goal is for everyone to make a delicious cake, then everyone will eat from the cakes and judge wich one is the best. People who bring unpainted armies are like the people who just bring a cake bought in the supermarket to the competition. It takes away the fun of the competition for those people who put in a lot of effort to bake a cake themselves.

Some people want to enter a cake competition, some people just want to eat cake.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

I personally don't understand the people who paint but have no intention of ever playing. It's like, sure, they might look good on a shelf, but if you just get some guys who look cool, it just seems like a waste of time and money to me. I just don't get it. At least model cars/planes and such have some public knowledge, like you can put it somewhere for other people to see and they can understand a car.

Apparently they make up 50% of sales says GW.

And having worked for the great enemy I can tell you that is an absolute crock, the "collectors" were one in a hundred.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back.

Try painting a different style then. Speed washing is highly effective and doesn't take much, models take 15-30 minutes. I completed an entire death guard army in 12 hours and came in 3rd at a 50 person tournament. It works on guard, orks, nids, and nurgle anything the best.

Here's the death guard example:

Prime White
Watered down loren forest for armour, watered down red for the boltgun, watered down brow for gloves/pouches. Make it so you have the paint flow into the recesses.
Dry brush bone
Paint metals
Agrax earth shade

Done. 15 minutes a model.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back.

Try painting a different style then. Speed washing is highly effective and doesn't take much, models take 15-30 minutes. I completed an entire death guard army in 12 hours and came in 3rd at a 50 person tournament. It works on guard, orks, nids, and nurgle anything the best.

Here's the death guard example:

Prime White
Watered down loren forest for armour, watered down red for the boltgun, watered down brow for gloves/pouches. Make it so you have the paint flow into the recesses.
Dry brush bone
Paint metals
Agrax earth shade

Done. 15 minutes a model.

I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

In all honesty painting is the one aspect of the hobby that I struggle with the most. I've had a few armies that have died out over the years because I couldn't motivate myself enough to paint them. Eventually they were sold off to fund the next project. I've gotten better over the last few years, and 2 of my 3 current armies are nearly fully painted, and my Eldar are getting there. I can't blame people for not painting, God knows I struggled with it a lot, even though I now prefer to have everything painted I would never say anything if someone has an unpainted army or models, because I remember being in that same position myself. My 2 cents

 Pouncey wrote:


I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

Try airbrushing and mirco pens. Airbrushes do wonders and micro pens make armour plates quick and easy.

The point Im making is that try different methods, most people are stuck in the hell that is block layering.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

Try airbrushing and mirco pens. Airbrushes do wonders and micro pens make armour plates quick and easy.

The point Im making is that try different methods, most people are stuck in the hell that is block layering.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

I do recall looking into a hobby air compressor at one point, but it was for my GW spray gun shaped like a hand flamer, not an airbrush. I think I could only find ones intended for power tools, which were much too powerful and far too expensive for my liking.

Micropens sound up my alley though, if they're what my mind is imagining. Would probably prove useful for rivets and the edges of armor on my Sisters, especially that annoying row of spikes on their backpacks.

Iron_Captain wrote:

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

If I have to play against unpainted miniatures it greatly lessens the fun and enjoyment of 40k. I know this is true for many other people as well. On the other hand, if someone collects, paints and doesn't play, no one is affected by that.

Let us compare 40k to a cake competition. The goal is for everyone to make a delicious cake, then everyone will eat from the cakes and judge wich one is the best. People who bring unpainted armies are like the people who just bring a cake bought in the supermarket to the competition. It takes away the fun of the competition for those people who put in a lot of effort to bake a cake themselves.

That's not really a good comparison though.... it would be a good comparison in a 40k PAINTING competition where someone shows up with commission painted models.

It's more like having a cake eating contest and people show up with cakes that don't have icing on them

Pouncey wrote:Actually, a person painting and not playing does affect their local gaming scene. It affects them by depriving them of a potential opponent. Although it's not really any different in that regard than choosing to game at a different location, or not being into tabletop gaming at all.

Yeah that's pretty abstract, that would be like saying the 7.124 billion people on earth who don't play wargames are depriving their local wargames communities In a horrible dystopian world where people are forced to game with the wargaming models they've painted I'm sure those people would simply swap to models that aren't wargaming models

Pouncey wrote:I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

What sized brushes were you using? One of the best methods for speeding up your painting is to simply use appropriately large brushes. Even though I own an airbrush, my speed painted models I don't use it for anything but the base coat (or not at all if I can do the base coat with a spray can, which is even faster than the airbrush).

But 45 minutes. It's actually not THAT bad if it includes assembly. For me to do a Saurus Warrior takes around 10 minutes to assemble, a couple of minutes to base coat, a couple of minutes for first wash, a couple of minutes for 2nd wash only on the scales, a few minutes to paint the base and flock it, then another 10 or so minutes to pick out the details (even if I only do basic details). So you're looking at about 30 minutes.

There's not too many models I can do from sprue to finished model in under 30 minutes. My Cadians take me just under 30 minutes, largely because I use the snap fit ones which are faster to assemble, if using the multipart ones it's just over 30 minutes.