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I'm honestly pretty underwhelmed with the whole thing.

I'd been pre-ordering the whole of wave 8 as and when I'd got some spare cash, and the Ghost was the only item I'd yet to order.

I honestly don't think I'll bother.

There's little here I'm excited to play, it all seems a bit vanilla. I'll get it eventually, of course, but I hope there's more in the wave that does get my juices flowing.

 Peregrine wrote:
Kanan (VCX): not bad. A recon specialist or two lets you stock up on focus tokens, and that's a pretty big defensive buff. The main problem I see is that the Ghost is just so expensive that you won't have much room for a ship to escort in a standard 100 point game, and using his ability to defend his own ship is hindered by the fact that zero agility will let damage through even with fewer red dice.

Way I see it, you'll run Kanan with an Ace like Corran or Poe. If your opponent focuses on Kanan, use his ability to reduce damage and draw a turn or two more fire. If they focus on Corran, well, that's almost better.

Ezra (crew): good on his own merits, not very impressive compared to the alternative. You're essentially getting an offense-only focus for 3 points and a crew slot, while Kyle Katarn gives you a focus that can be used on offense or defense. The only time Ezra wins the comparison is when you're making multiple attacks each turn, and the only rebel ships that can do it either can't take advantage of PTL (Ghost) or don't have crew slots free (gunner YT-1300s).

I think Ghost and Phantoms dials are where they'd draw stress from. Imagine Running Extra with Hera [shuttle] and TLT. Now you use Hera's ability to flip reds, and get to convert a focus on both attacks. Same with Hera [Ghost]. I think a lot of these cards are designed to work with each other. Ezra will also have utility because he offers a similar effect to Kyle that may be taken on another ship if you need more than one of them.

Chopper (crew): well, it's a zero-point option for a reason. Damaging your own ship to take actions is rarely going to be a good idea, but if you have an open crew slot there's no reason not to take a zero-point option.

I think the key will be to see him as an anti-control device. Best place I see to put him now is on Miranda Doni to prevent your opponent from denying Slams (Since she can regain shields later, and one point of damage is probably less than a broadside from a decent attacker will do).

Chopper (ship): not bad, but not good? You move before virtually every ship that takes stress voluntarily, so forget about multi-stressing Fel/Corran/etc. All you're really doing is forcing a green maneuver next turn, but that does have some value. The main problem is that the other Ghost options are just better, and I don't think putting two of them in a list is going to be a popular option.

Thus, Ion Projectors.

Overall, I think that these cards have a lot of potential, but a lot of them are probably going to sit on the shelf until the right card comes for them to combo with (Hera [Crew] for an example)

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Way I see it, you'll run Kanan with an Ace like Corran or Poe. If your opponent focuses on Kanan, use his ability to reduce damage and draw a turn or two more fire. If they focus on Corran, well, that's almost better.

This is what I meant about taking him as an escort. The problem is that points get really tight when you do that. For example, PTL Corran is 48 points, and Kanan with a pair of recon specialists is 44. That's 8 points left for upgrades, which I guess buys you FCS and a TLT. Maybe that's good enough, even though you aren't getting shuttle tricks, the rear arc on the Ghost, or the extra attack? It just feels like you're taking half a ship without the shuttle. And if you do try to cram in a shuttle you're going to struggle to get anything that deserves the title "ace" for your other ship.

I think Ghost and Phantoms dials are where they'd draw stress from. Imagine Running Extra with Hera [shuttle] and TLT. Now you use Hera's ability to flip reds, and get to convert a focus on both attacks. Same with Hera [Ghost]. I think a lot of these cards are designed to work with each other.

Yeah, it's great for one turn, but you give up your action to do it (which could be a focus token that would be just as good on at least one of the attacks) and limit your maneuver options next turn (white and keep stress-focus on offense but lose your pilot ability or green to get your pilot ability back but lose stress-focus). And you're doing nothing to help on defense, so you're spending quite a few points on a ship that will die very easily if you take the shuttle version.

I think the way to really exploit Ezra is the traditional PTL ace type of ship where you take stress every turn to pile up actions or special abilities then clear the stress next turn to do it all again. In that case Ezra gives you even more "actions" on top of your other actions/abilities instead of replacing the actions you could be taking if you weren't stressed. But I'm not sure that a ship like that exists right now.

Ezra will also have utility because he offers a similar effect to Kyle that may be taken on another ship if you need more than one of them.

This is true, but is there a 100-point list that can fit two ships like that?

I think the key will be to see him as an anti-control device. Best place I see to put him now is on Miranda Doni to prevent your opponent from denying Slams (Since she can regain shields later, and one point of damage is probably less than a broadside from a decent attacker will do).

Giving up a crew slot as a speculative counter to control elements that your opponent may or may not be using seems like a pretty bad idea unless R3-A2 really breaks the metagame. And based on my experience with Miranda it's not a very appealing idea. Bumping is a much bigger problem than stress, and Miranda really wants C-3P0 or Chewbacca to stay alive long enough for that shield regen to be effective.

Thus, Ion Projectors.

True, there is that. It still seems like a large investment in a pretty situational strategy, compared to other options that have a lot more raw power and consistency. I mean, "take stress if you bump me" seems pretty weak compared to "lose an attack die on every ship in your list".

I see a lot of games with the Ghost in my future... My son will be flying them, and I'll be forced to fly a swarm lead by the Inquisitor. Those will be a lot of fun games, but we'll see if this ship makes much of an impact in competative play.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
her crew card looks like fun, the main problem being that other than the Ghost, most Rebels ships can't run her and Extra Munitions, and the one ship that can already has two bombs. Still, let her fly a K-wing and you can choose from your three favorite bombs, which are now even better

Nitpick: the B Wing can also have a crew slot and extra munitions. And makes good use of gaining a bomb slot.

You can have a Blue Squad with FCS, Sabine, Conner Net and Extra Munitions for only 33 points.

On the balance, the Ghost expansion will definitely be my next buy. I'm pretty impressed with all the options here and having just watched season 1 of Rebels, I'm in love with this thing and her crew.

The Shuttle pilots seem pretty good and are efficient points wise. Logistics of procuring multiple miniatures aside, anyone thought about running multiple attack shuttles by themselves with no Ghost in sight?

Kanaan seems like he can be annoying if he takes recon specialists. nothing really jumps out at me, but I typically play Empire. I can see Sabine being annoying in crew form, Or Chopper on Miranda, as mentioned previously. Kyle Katarn already does Ezra's thing but better, Zeb's will be situational, as will Hera's.

I really want to see Dengar and the Inquisitor's previews, though.

Feeling a bit mehh about most of the Ghost stuff, lack of an EPT seems like it could be a pain, although Sabine (Crew) appeals but thats mostly due to my unhealthy attraction towards bombs, I'm assuming you can stick the bonus damage on the ship that triggers a bomb which would really help the average damage for the dice bombs

Peregrine wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Way I see it, you'll run Kanan with an Ace like Corran or Poe. If your opponent focuses on Kanan, use his ability to reduce damage and draw a turn or two more fire. If they focus on Corran, well, that's almost better.

This is what I meant about taking him as an escort. The problem is that points get really tight when you do that. For example, PTL Corran is 48 points, and Kanan with a pair of recon specialists is 44. That's 8 points left for upgrades, which I guess buys you FCS and a TLT. Maybe that's good enough, even though you aren't getting shuttle tricks, the rear arc on the Ghost, or the extra attack? It just feels like you're taking half a ship without the shuttle. And if you do try to cram in a shuttle you're going to struggle to get anything that deserves the title "ace" for your other ship.

Did a bit of math, and you can grab One Recon Spec, Zeb [Shuttle], and the Dorsal Turret with Vet instincts Poe. Not amazing, but can technically be done.

bocatt wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
her crew card looks like fun, the main problem being that other than the Ghost, most Rebels ships can't run her and Extra Munitions, and the one ship that can already has two bombs. Still, let her fly a K-wing and you can choose from your three favorite bombs, which are now even better

Nitpick: the B Wing can also have a crew slot and extra munitions. And makes good use of gaining a bomb slot.

You can have a Blue Squad with FCS, Sabine, Conner Net and Extra Munitions for only 33 points.

On the balance, the Ghost expansion will definitely be my next buy. I'm pretty impressed with all the options here and having just watched season 1 of Rebels, I'm in love with this thing and her crew.

The Shuttle pilots seem pretty good and are efficient points wise. Logistics of procuring multiple miniatures aside, anyone thought about running multiple attack shuttles by themselves with no Ghost in sight?

Forgot about the E2.

... I really should read right to the end of the thread ...

I'm really not looking forward to fighting this thing 16 health, gets an evade and can take Reinforced Deflectors...ughh.

All you can really do is avoid arcs and just fire away over and over and over, huh dogfighting... I thought that was what x-wing was all about. I'm not looking forward to it at all.

Reinforced Deflectors should only be 1 time per round otherwise its pretty much an auto take...

 easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:
I'm really not looking forward to fighting this thing 16 health, gets an evade and can take Reinforced Deflectors...ughh.

All you can really do is avoid arcs and just fire away over and over and over, huh dogfighting... I thought that was what x-wing was all about. I'm not looking forward to it at all.

Reinforced Deflectors should only be 1 time per round otherwise its pretty much an auto take...

Considering if you take the Reinforced Deflectors, and the Phantom, you're looking at 65+ points before any other upgrades. That's most of your list, so yeah it better have a good amount of health. But even the Deflectors and an Evade can't save it from Buzzsaw Whisper or Cluster missile "Redline", or Bossk, or Lawn mowing B-wings, ect.

Dorsal turret isn't a complete waste for Kavil, scum Y-Wing pilot with +1 attack die when attacking outside of his firing arc. 3 attack at R2, 4 attack at R1. He's PS7 with an EPT, so with for 29 points you can get Kavil, VI, Dorsal Turret and Unhinged Astromech.

Not great, not completely terrible.

 streamdragon wrote:
Dorsal turret isn't a complete waste for Kavil, scum Y-Wing pilot with +1 attack die when attacking outside of his firing arc. 3 attack at R2, 4 attack at R1. He's PS7 with an EPT, so with for 29 points you can get Kavil, VI, Dorsal Turret and Unhinged Astromech.

Not great, not completely terrible.

Honestly, I'd rather take Agromech+Blaster Turret. There I'm at least talking serious firepower, even if I am very action-reliant.

 easypeasylemonsquezy wrote:
Reinforced Deflectors should only be 1 time per round otherwise its pretty much an auto take...

Strongly disagree. It does literally nothing against 2-dice attacks, is questionable against 3-dice attacks, and consistently useful against 4+ dice but then you're taking so much damage anyway that it's probably not enough to save you. And it's competing with FCS/AS for a slot. Putting FCS on a ship that makes potentially four attacks a turn is a huge damage buff and the best way to prevent damage is to kill the ship that is trying to inflict it. Honestly, I think reinforced deflectors is going to see very little use.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Dorsal turret isn't a complete waste for Kavil, scum Y-Wing pilot with +1 attack die when attacking outside of his firing arc. 3 attack at R2, 4 attack at R1. He's PS7 with an EPT, so with for 29 points you can get Kavil, VI, Dorsal Turret and Unhinged Astromech.

Not great, not completely terrible.

Honestly, I'd rather take Agromech+Blaster Turret. There I'm at least talking serious firepower, even if I am very action-reliant.

You're talking about a 1 die difference at R2 only, but the Dorsal lets you spend your focus to actually change results instead of just shoot. And 1 point cheaper than the Blaster.

 streamdragon wrote:
You're talking about a 1 die difference at R2 only, but the Dorsal lets you spend your focus to actually change results instead of just shoot. And 1 point cheaper than the Blaster.

The problem is that if you're willing to sacrifice most of your effectiveness at range 2 you might as well save another point and take an autoblaster turret that is better at range 1. And honestly, a TLT is a better option than either.

 Peregrine wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
You're talking about a 1 die difference at R2 only, but the Dorsal lets you spend your focus to actually change results instead of just shoot. And 1 point cheaper than the Blaster.

The problem is that if you're willing to sacrifice most of your effectiveness at range 2 you might as well save another point and take an autoblaster turret that is better at range 1. And honestly, a TLT is a better option than either.

Oh I agree that the TLT is pretty much the best option, but it's also 6pts. vs. 3pts. for the dorsal. I wasn't trying to say the Dorsal is a top or even great choice, just that it's a viable one. I also don't consider the loss of 1 die at range 2 "most of your effectiveness" compared to the Blaster turret. 3 dice w/ Focus > 4 dice w/o Focus. Sure, you get the TL from the R4 agromech (which costs 1 more than the unhinged I'd normally use), but you can TL on the Dorsal for an action (which you'd do at range 3 when neither the Dorsal or Blaster can shoot anyway).

I'm still in a bit of awe over the Attack Shuttle's stat line.

I'm not really a competitive player for X-wing, but I like to play the game. I'll be getting the Ghost/Phantom because it's a great alternative to some of the other big ships out there.

There are a couple combinations of ships/upgrades in X-wing that are so good that every other ship is judged by that very, very high standard. If a new ship can't meet that bar, then it's considered not that good, when in reality it's that the comparison is being made to an OP build.

Is anyone else upset that you can't fit all 6 crew members within the ship?

Ghost pilot + 2 crew + Shuttle pilot + 1 crew = 5 characters. I wanted to run all 6...

 krodarklorr wrote:
Is anyone else upset that you can't fit all 6 crew members within the ship?

Ghost pilot + 2 crew + Shuttle pilot + 1 crew = 5 characters. I wanted to run all 6...

[Insert joke about Sabine and her average plot-relevance]

 Peregrine wrote:

Hera (crew): not very impressive. You still take the stress for the red maneuver so you'll quickly end up crippling your own ship, and most of the rebel ships with crew slots don't really depend on their red maneuvers. Given the existence of much more powerful crew options I can't see her getting much use.

Got Rebel Aces over the holiday, would Crew Hera be a decent option for Keyan Farlander with the B-Wing/E2 mod to add the crew slot? Since Keyan eats stress tokens for damage, it seems like having your full dial always available would be good? I realize you still wouldn't get actions if you're stressed after your maneuver, but not losing 40% of your maneuver dial could be good? Especially given she's 1 point? (well, 2 with the E2 mod I guess.) I realize PTL is the obvious source of EPTs, but maybe with Crew Hera you could run VI instead of PTL?

 streamdragon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Hera (crew): not very impressive. You still take the stress for the red maneuver so you'll quickly end up crippling your own ship, and most of the rebel ships with crew slots don't really depend on their red maneuvers. Given the existence of much more powerful crew options I can't see her getting much use.

Got Rebel Aces over the holiday, would Crew Hera be a decent option for Keyan Farlander with the B-Wing/E2 mod to add the crew slot? Since Keyan eats stress tokens for damage, it seems like having your full dial always available would be good? I realize you still wouldn't get actions if you're stressed after your maneuver, but not losing 40% of your maneuver dial could be good? Especially given she's 1 point? (well, 2 with the E2 mod I guess.) I realize PTL is the obvious source of EPTs, but maybe with Crew Hera you could run VI instead of PTL?

Problem is, the B-wing isn't going to stack up red maneuvers fast enough for it to be worth it. After every red maneuver, you spend the stress token. Now your whole dial is free anyways. It's highly unlikely that you'll go Red maneuver-Red Maneuver without spending your stress, and being forced to take red maneuvers to stress doesn't work, or else you'd see more of Keyan Farlander without PTL.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Hera (crew): not very impressive. You still take the stress for the red maneuver so you'll quickly end up crippling your own ship, and most of the rebel ships with crew slots don't really depend on their red maneuvers. Given the existence of much more powerful crew options I can't see her getting much use.

Got Rebel Aces over the holiday, would Crew Hera be a decent option for Keyan Farlander with the B-Wing/E2 mod to add the crew slot? Since Keyan eats stress tokens for damage, it seems like having your full dial always available would be good? I realize you still wouldn't get actions if you're stressed after your maneuver, but not losing 40% of your maneuver dial could be good? Especially given she's 1 point? (well, 2 with the E2 mod I guess.) I realize PTL is the obvious source of EPTs, but maybe with Crew Hera you could run VI instead of PTL?

Problem is, the B-wing isn't going to stack up red maneuvers fast enough for it to be worth it. After every red maneuver, you spend the stress token. Now your whole dial is free anyways. It's highly unlikely that you'll go Red maneuver-Red Maneuver without spending your stress, and being forced to take red maneuvers to stress doesn't work, or else you'd see more of Keyan Farlander without PTL.

Yeah, good point. I see a lot of stress effects when I play (rebel captive especially), figured it might be nice to keep that 40% of the B-wing dial that's red.

Edit: It also means the MOD slot is free for an Engine Upgrade instead of the E2 mod. Easier to arc dodge with both actions I guess.