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Probably about half my games are called before the final tally? Sometimes it's just to preserve the fun because everything awesome happened already, sometimes were just not interested in resolving a big grinding fistfight at the end, and sometimes the outcome is obvious turn 4 and one player doesn't want to play with two empty drop pods left.

Many people care only about the exhibition/tactics portion of a game and don't want to deal with the going thru the motions of the endgame. That's fine.

Not on a tournament game. Hope (in CSM) is the last thing to die.

On friendly games I usually play until the 5th turn no matter how bad the game is going, if the game doesn't end I see if there is any chance to win. No point in playing a 6th or 7th turn if even if I complete objectives I won't be able to catch up or the more often scenario when I'm down to 1 - 2 CSM units vs a above 50% tau/necron/eldar/SM force, happy times

There is an old saying...

"Quitters never win, and winners never quit." - Vince Lombardi (look him up if you don't know who he is)

I have rage quit once or twice- mostly when facing guys that are cheating/don't know how to play the game and refuse to believe it, and those that come with a WAC list tailored to beat mine. I'd like to think I've matured enough for that not to happen, but it hasn't. 25+ years of gaming, and little toy soldiers can still get me all worked up. Sometimes, I just need to take a break, walk away from the table for a minute or two and I'm good, or sometimes I just have to remind myself that it's a game of little toy soldiers, and represents like >1% of my total life- as in, I don't define myself by my W/L record in a game of little toy soldiers.

There are other times when the game has become a forgone conclusion, and that's when I really, really start thinking what went wrong, how could I have done better, etc. etc. When it happens to my opponent, I try to put myself in their shoes and figure out what they could have done differently. Or I'll have only a turn left before I lose. So what can I do in that turn? Take another objective? Kill the model that has been giving me so much grief all game long? One last charge of the Light Brigade? Banzai? Or maybe hunker down so that last unit denies my opponent a complete victory? Even though the game might be lost, doesn't mean that you still can't continue to play and have fun.

I try to remember that this is a game of little toy soldiers and dice. We play games to have fun, AND to win. It's also a two player game, and BOTH players should be having fun. It's amazing how much fun both you and your opponent can have when neither one of you care who wins.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Makumba wrote:

You have an obligation in a tournament not to concede prematurely, because points are at stake, and conceding gives your opponent max points. I've seen lots of tourneys where the margin between best overall is down to a matter of a few points. Play it out until the game is over or time's up.

But this is done in almost every event. People drop out turn 1 or 2, so their friends have a higher over all score. If you didn't win first two rounds with a good score you won't win the tournament anyway. So it is a good thing for your friend to have a higher chance to win and no friends to not.

How about my friends try and win on their own merits?

how do they not win on they own merit. They still have to win their games. You just drop their opponents score, why would anyone care in a tournament setting, what non friends want. In big invitational tournaments some people go just to drop other people score. Sometime you don't even have to do it for a friend. Someone not wining is just as fun, specialy when you don't like them or when they are from part of a city your at war at.

 vipoid wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes, of course it's ok to concede a game when the outcome is inevitable. Just don't ragequit. Ragequitting is TFG behavior.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but what counts as a 'ragequit'?

Flipping a table, swearing excessively, knocking over models, storming off....you know it when you see it.


I think in a tournament, you have an obligation to play it through. In WMH, scooping, as it's called, became a big problem in the tournament scene and some of the players who are popular had to ask everyone to stop doing it, as it was skewing results. 40k doesn't have an organized active tournament scene, but I like to think the same rules apply.

In friendly games, I only quit if I can get another game in. If I can save 1 hour or more by quitting and playing a different opponent or we can change our lists around, I'll do that. Otherwise, let the guy enjoy his stomping, sometimes it happens.
If it's a team game I don't quit.

I've seen someone concede right after deployment to an Eldar player. Once the guy put his Wraithknight and Windrider Host into play, he extended the hand and said "GG, I lose".

 Arkaine wrote:
I've seen someone concede right after deployment to an Eldar player. Once the guy put his Wraithknight and Windrider Host into play, he extended the hand and said "GG, I lose".

You guys don't exchange lists before hand? What army was the opponent using?

If I was using my Chaos, I'd ask if I could swap out for my nids, tau, SM, necron, or eldar forces (whoever I brought as a backup...with CSM you need a backup army). CSM would just get rolled, orks most likely as well. Probably guard too, so I can see some armies declining the game.

I've only ever quit before the point where it wasn't clearly over (as in, absolutely no hope to return from the beat-down, and it being a waste of time from that point forward) in one situation.

I was taking part in a friendly local campaign. There were a few simple rules, including having your list printed out and in hand before the game (the rule was put in place because we had a few people who were finding out what their opponent was and what the scenario was, then picking a list to counter it from their phones, when the intent of the campaign was for all comers lists to be picked beforehand). The guy I was playing failed to print out his list, even after it was very CLEARLY reiterated that you had to do so. He didn't have any rulebooks, except what was on his phone. He didn't have any grasp of the rules of his army, and I knew he was doing things wrong, but he wasn't checking his rulebook. He rolled his psychic powers just off the top of his head. Even with all that, I was thinking "this is some bs, but I want to get a game in so I'll live with it".

What made me decide I had better things to do was when he shot at my Tech-priest warlord, and I asked him what the strength of the attack was so I could determine if I should have him go to ground for the 2+ invul. He told me the attack was S4, so I opted to not go to ground. He rolls the attack, and then rolls again for the strength of the shot. Apparently it was S4 + d6. Didn't tell me the D6. Naturally, he rolls high enough to insta-gib my warlord. That's when I packed up.

I'm pretty tolerant of my opponents doing things, or disregarding campaign rules, in favor of getting a game in. But when the rule you tell me changes mid-roll, feth you I have better things to do. I left in the middle of turn 1.

I say it is ok to concede a game if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are going to lose. Just say "Good game", shake hands with your opponent, and move on. I've done this plenty of times (my tourney W/L record is horribly bad). Rage quitting, on the other hand, is never acceptable. Especially if you are a mature adult. Losing is part of playing any game, just get over it and try and do better next time. Learn from your failures. In games I've lost, I usually talk to my opponent afterwards to see what I might have done better. Either that, or we swap painting/modelling tips. My play group is real friendly; we don't have any TFG types that I know of.

For myself, the quote "Oh, oh, I see! Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!" the quote from the Black Knight in Monty Python springs to mind. Never say die but still keep it fun. I have played every game to the end unless we just ran out of time.

If it is my opponent being butchered, I usually ask "Are you good for playing this to the end or want to wrap this up?".
Sometimes you get to try things you would not dare when winning.

Rage / anger / sorrow really has no place in gaming, it is supposed to be for fun after all.

 Arkaine wrote:
I've seen someone concede right after deployment to an Eldar player. Once the guy put his Wraithknight and Windrider Host into play, he extended the hand and said "GG, I lose".

Sounds about right.

If there is Narrative to be Forged I'll stick with it!

On the other hand, I have often snatched defeat away from the jaws of victory and would be disappointed if my opponents had denied me the opportunity to make those mistakes!

The only time I or anyone I play against has conceded is later in the game on the last or second to last turn when it is fairly one sided. We play out the last two turns verbally in terms of our actions and see if there's any point of continuing.

I've been in tournaments where some players have quit too soon because of heavy casualties without realizing they can still hold/take objectives. Similarly, I've won or at least drawn several games even though I got my butt handed to me in terms of casualties just because of objectives being met/held.

In a tournament? Never.

In a friendly? Whenever you both realise that there is no chance to change the outcome.

When a fluff list is against a cheese list (ie CSM vs wraithknights & scatbikes)? I don't even start the game, they can go live out their power fantasies somewhere else.

We have some local guys who sent above playing the most of a game in a tourney and then 'conceding' to boost the scores of the player in the better position.

When it's turn 5, your opponent has two objectives you can't dislodge him from (because your mobile units are dead) and your one held objective is just about to be hit by a unit you know will wipe out your defenders... yes, it's not wrong to admit defeat and move on to the next game.

While I've never done it in 40k, I usually concede in MTG when my opponent will win next turn with nothing I can do about it (like having enough creatures to kill me or I have no cards left to draw). It's generally to make things go faster cuz when victory is assured like that, playing it out is a mere formality and the time saved could squeeze another game in.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Now not about winning or losing, but what if you know you cannot keep up to speed, and this would penalise your opponent as well as yourself?

New players, tired players, and if we're being very cynical ...stalling players?

I'm not looking for validation, but I'll give an example - on Saturday I was taking part in a three game tourney, and started projectile vomiting midway through game 2 (not at the table). Having cleared my system, I was absolutely fine. Fit to play. But I was very tired, slow, and I'd cost my opponent at least 20mins of game time with no explanation bar running away with hands over my mouth.
Utter gent, he insisted that he was okay with playing on if I was happy to, and went on to beat me due to skill rather than me being spaced.
Looking back, it would have benefitted him if I conceded, as he was hampered severely by my speed.

This is something from MtG tournament stuff but there are two things that should happen:

1.) Intentional stalling is a slow play warning.

2.) Any bathroom breaks, medical issues, or whatever else that is legitimate is afforded a reasonable time extension to the round for the players who were affected by it. Basically, if you started throwing up, you're entitled to at least a 10 minute time extension to your game for both players, as that is not something you have control over, as such you and your opponent should not be penalized as heavily.

I always play it out to the last roll. There has been several times at tournaments it looked like I would lose for sure then luck or bad decisions by an opponent turned it around. I personally have never been tabled so far it's not an issue.

Only once, and not for my own sake (though I was losing hard). We were the only ones left in the shop, it was 11 PM and I thought it'd be nice for the last staffer to go home so I suggested I'd concede, but he didn't mind, so we continued.

I gave up the game on turn 1 one time. I had a DE army of infantry and like 2 vehicles. My opponent brought Decurion Necrons.

I stole the initiative, got first blood (haywiring a ghost-arc) and conceded defeat.

We then played a match of Decurion vs Decurion. Decurion (He) won

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
While I've never done it in 40k, I usually concede in MTG when my opponent will win next turn with nothing I can do about it (like having enough creatures to kill me or I have no cards left to draw). It's generally to make things go faster cuz when victory is assured like that, playing it out is a mere formality and the time saved could squeeze another game in.

Yeah, when the game is at a point that there is no appreciable way to affect the outcome of a game is when I'll call it, especially if it's a tourney and the few extra minutes to hit the head, grab a snack, or something will be usefull. Either way my opponent is getting full points, so I might as well.

But if it hasn't hit that point, then there's no reason to give up. I was playing a friend a few weeks ago and doing a pretty decent job of kicking him around the battlefield. He started saying that he might as well call it by around turn three, while I pointed out he was getting far enough ahead on objectives, that I'd have to table him to win. And I didn't table him. He failed to fully killy any of my units, and only had a few models left, but he had me beaten by objectives by 2 to 1.

When you play against a kid who brought this to a "1000" point game:

Dante
Sanguinor
Jump Pack Chaplain
Baal Pred
Vindicator
2 Librarian Dreadnoughts
3 Furioso Dreadnoughts
3 Regular Dreadnoughts
1 Death Company Dreadnought (No death company tho)
3 Assault Squads
1 Scout Snipers

And the thing is his father swore blind that it was a 1000 point list. The worst part is I'm good mates with his older brother, who's used to this bull.

I brought:
Captain Sicarius
Rhino (which had nothing in it, but he wasted his shots on it nonetheless)
2 Tacs
Devastators
Terminators
Dev Centurions

Most of these units were minimum squad number. Thing is, I put my very gak list on the table and he waltzed over to his case and pulled out his 9 fething Dreadnoughts! I put up a huge fight, the Rhino blew up and then wrecked the 3 Melta dreadnoughts, my Tacs laid down Grav smackdown on the Baal Pred, my Centurions tried their damnes hardest to tarpit the Librarian Dreads but they were shot down by the bastards with Prescience in the Assault Squads. Sanguinor was one shotted by Sicarius because Sanguinor suuuuuucks. Dante got shunted off the table by my brave, brave Terminators who beat him in CC, despite being the shooty kind. My devastators got insta-rekt by the illegal Death Company Dreads,

On T4 it was obvious who was winning, and I told the father until his son learnt to play fair and adhere to the points limit I would bring Grav Bikers, Tigurius, Cents, Demi-Companies, Skyhammer and my DJ Chronus deathstar until he learnt. He looked at me in disbelief while the older brother just said "Dad, he's bringing OP gak.". I packed my stuff and left.

Oh and the kid also cheats at dice rolls, i.e rolling out of sight, picking up fails as successes.

Next day I played him again and he nearly cried from the stinky cheese.

Tigurius
3x Tactical Squads with Grav Guns/Cannons/Combi-G's.
1x Tactical Squads with Melta/Multi-M/Combi-M in Pod.

SKYHAMMER:
2x 10 man Assault
2x 10 man Grav-estators

DJ Chronus Deathstar:
Chronus
LRR
Techmarine w/ Beamer
2 Servitors

Stormtalon Wing of 3


It was glorius for the Ultramarines that day, glorius.

The moral? Someone unfairly curbstomps you, fairly curbstomp them back.

Could you not have just asked to see his list in the first game?

When a Dreadnought costs 100 base and there are ten of them you don't need to see the list to know its over points.

The bigger issue are the attitudes.

 Frozocrone wrote:
When a Dreadnought costs 100 base and there are ten of them you don't need to see the list to know its over points.

So, why not confront him? It seems pretty easy to just prove that his army is over the point limit.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Yes, of course it's ok to concede a game when the outcome is inevitable. Just don't ragequit. Ragequitting is TFG behavior.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but what counts as a 'ragequit'?

Things just aren't going your way so you leave in frustration.

That said, I've never seen rage quits in 40k. Something about still being in their physical presence diminishes the effect.

Now flipping the table, that's something else

to be upfront i had just got out of a toxic problem where i was playing against one local guy in his apartment where he would use my brand new 500p army as a punching bag for his rule lawyering and cheese spamming eldar. met a new guy to be a regular player with who played guardsmen and started list tailoring in front of me and being an all around jerk everytime we played and i felt like flipping the table over and then picking up the pieces and going home there n then when the final straw was drawn. i didnt but i can see situations where a player would feel absolutely mad about their run of bad situation after bad situation

Even if you believe the outcome is inevitable or that there's nothing you can do to change it... try.
A loss is only guaranteed if you surrender.

For example - in one of the games I've played recently I had lost over half my army by the end of turn 2 and my opponent hadn't even lost a quarter of his. We both believed that the outcome was inevitable and there was no chance to change it... Not true.
From that moment he lost perspective and focussed on tabling me and I was focussed on nothing but the objectives. I ended up winning with only a handful of men left standing against half his army.

Even if it's truly hopeless, choose to do something fluffy instead of conceding. Be that attempting to extract what remains of your men or holing up in a building for a glorious last stand.
It's more fun for both parties that way.

 Otto Weston wrote:
Even if you believe the outcome is inevitable or that there's nothing you can do to change it... try.
A loss is only guaranteed if you surrender.

For example - in one of the games I've played recently I had lost over half my army by the end of turn 2 and my opponent hadn't even lost a quarter of his. We both believed that the outcome was inevitable and there was no chance to change it... Not true.
From that moment he lost perspective and focussed on tabling me and I was focussed on nothing but the objectives. I ended up winning with only a handful of men left standing against half his army.

Even if it's truly hopeless, choose to do something fluffy instead of conceding. Be that attempting to extract what remains of your men or holing up in a building for a glorious last stand.
It's more fun for both parties that way.

I recommend this, though in my early gaming days I did used to concede (and still do if there is no possible way for me to win, like not being able to grab objectives).

Case in point, I borrowed my friends Tau against Imperial Guard and used my Orks against Decurion. In both games I got tabled or close to tabled, although could have won had the game ended on turn 5. Alas, both games went to turn 7 and there was nothing I could do as either I couldn't kill his guys or I was promptly blasted off objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
When a Dreadnought costs 100 base and there are ten of them you don't need to see the list to know its over points.

So, why not confront him? It seems pretty easy to just prove that his army is over the point limit.

I've met some pretty unpleasant people who believe their children can do no wrong and will vehemently defend them in all circumstances. I just deny them a game, even more so if they get agitated. I did not sign a contract stating I had to play them.

 vipoid wrote:
Could you not have just asked to see his list in the first game?

I did, and he didnt write points down.