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All Super-heavy Vehicles, including Walkers, may Tank Shock, Ram, and Thunderblitz?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Who can Thunderblitz?
All Super-Heavy Vehicles, including Walkers 7% [ 2 ]
All Super-Heavy Vehicles that are not Super-heavy walkers 48% [ 13 ]
All Super-Heavy Vehicles that are Tanks (sorry Baneblade) 19% [ 5 ]
None of this makes sense and Thunderblitz does not exist 7% [ 2 ]
Only checkboxes may thunderblitz 19% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 27
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Help me out guys:

I see page 95 says "Super-heavy vehicles may Tank Shock or Ram." That seems pretty unambiguous. I know nobody plays with Ramming Super-Heavy Walkers, so where is the rule that says they cannot? I can't find it.

Also look closely at the Baneblade entry. It does not have the Tank type! Can it Tank Shock?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/16 05:05:40


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Well, super heavy vehicles can ram. Super heavy walkers cannot, unless specifically noted in their rules (like the Lord of Skulls). They are two seperate things, and if they weren't, there would be no need for the explicit permission for the LoS (a SHW) to do it.

The Baneblade can do it, the IK cannot, as they are not both SHV's. The rules don't have to say the action cannot be performed. They do need to say that it can be performed, however.
   
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Checkboxes OP.

TL;DR - Superheavy Walkers cannot Thunderblitz because, despite having the rule, they cannot move at Combat Speed/Cruising Speed as that only applies to Vehicle movement, and Superheavy Walkers use Infantry movement (see: Walkers) but can move up to 12".

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 Bi'ios wrote:

The Baneblade can do it, the IK cannot, as they are not both SHV's.
It's pretty clear that SHW's are SHV's. Although another user pointed out that they use an explicit subset of the SHV rules. Maybe that's the key?

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1plus, its even easier than that. In the super heavy walker rules, under the super heavy section, it says the super heavy walker does not use the super heavy vehicle movement rules. So thunderblitz, a movement rule, is not granted to super heavy walkers.
   
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DevianID wrote:
1plus, its even easier than that. In the super heavy walker rules, under the super heavy section, it says the super heavy walker does not use the super heavy vehicle movement rules. So thunderblitz, a movement rule, is not granted to super heavy walkers.


The Movement rules section for Super Heavy Vehicles is only:

MOVEMENT
Regardless of their type, Super-heavy vehicles cannot use the Jink special rule.


In any scenario, the problem is that the wording for Super Heavy Walkers states:

SUPER-HEAVY
Super-heavy Walkers are Super-heavy vehicles and use the Super-heavy vehicle rules for Shooting, Vehicle Damage, Catastrophic Damage and Transports.


The "and" is the big issue - as the Thunderblitz rule/ability is not excluded... not that it can use it anyway though, because of the conflict I noted earlier.

axisofentropy wrote:
It's pretty clear that SHW's are SHV's. Although another user pointed out that they use an explicit subset of the SHV rules. Maybe that's the key?


They get the SHV rules and clarification around which sections to use and which it does not use, however there are no exclusions other than what is noted in the "Movement and Shooting" heading. For it to use "an explicit subset" it would have to be worded as:

SUPER-HEAVY
Super-heavy Walkers are Super-heavy vehicles but only use the Super-heavy vehicle rules for Shooting, Vehicle Damage, Catastrophic Damage and Transports.


Bottom line, however, is that all Checkboxes can always Thunderblitz, in any circumstance or game system.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/16 14:21:02


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 1PlusLogan wrote:
DevianID wrote:
1plus, its even easier than that. In the super heavy walker rules, under the super heavy section, it says the super heavy walker does not use the super heavy vehicle movement rules. So thunderblitz, a movement rule, is not granted to super heavy walkers.

The Movement rules section for Super Heavy Vehicles is only:

MOVEMENT
Regardless of their type, Super-heavy vehicles cannot use the Jink special rule.

In any scenario, the problem is that the wording for Super Heavy Walkers states:
SUPER-HEAVY
Super-heavy Walkers are Super-heavy vehicles and use the Super-heavy vehicle rules for Shooting, Vehicle Damage, Catastrophic Damage and Transports.

The "and" is the big issue - as the Thunderblitz rule/ability is not excluded... not that it can use it anyway though, because of the conflict I noted earlier.

You missed the introductory statement of the unit type, however:
Spoiler:
Super-heavy Walkers are Walkers that have the additional rules and exceptions given below.

Which then causes us to refer to:
Spoiler:
MOVING WALKERS
Walkers move using the movement rules for Infantry. They can move 6" in the Movement phase, Run in the Shooting phase, and charge in the Assault phase, just as Infantry can. Difficult terrain affects Walkers just as it does Infantry, and only counts as dangerous terrain if it would do so for Infantry. If Walkers fail a Dangerous Terrain test, they are Immobilised. Unlike Infantry, a Walker has a facing, which influences where it can fire (see right) and its Armour Value when fired at.

And then there's the Errata which makes the movement 12" for the SHW.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/16 15:22:52


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Yes, I mentioned that earlier. They have Infantry movement, so cannot move at Combat Speed because it's specific to vehicle type movement.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/12/16 15:26:40


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