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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:23:24
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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I dont understand. Why do you need to go buy FFG products once every week? FFG doesn't release products that fast.
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:26:28
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Prescient Cryptek of Eternity
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So, in reading this thread, it seems like I'll no longer be able to buy FFG products online at a ~20% discount. The practical effect is that the effective market price of FFG products is going up by 25% ($80 to $100, for example).
I was planning on starting Armada, but don't know that I want to absorb an arbitrary 25% price increase.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:28:39
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader
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winterwolf wrote:Neronoxx wrote:
Amazon stays in business by running a deficit (losing money on every sale) but then generates a collosal amount of revenue from investors, keeping them in business.
In short, Amazon makes money by losing money. How do you expect any other store to compete?
Since it sounds like you have a game store, I'd expect you to know the difference between revenues and capital. That you don't is a bit worrisome.
It was late, and i was tired. Still, to make assumptions on one's knowledge from a single word is quite pathetic. I'll wager you are one of those individuals often called, "a know it all."
But I'll humour you.
I'll assume you are referring to Financial Capital, rather than any of its other forms or ways, which would be a more accurate term of Amazons financial gain.
However, as I can not make assumptions to your intelligence, I'll put this into words I believe you'll understand.
Amazon makes money by losing money.
Let me know if you got that ;D
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:29:53
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Neronoxx wrote: Why do FLGS have to suffer online discounters because you live in the middle of nowhere?
Because it's 2015, and internet shopping is a thing?
It's not a customer service issue if you restrict yourself to not being a customer.
Yes, see... that's pretty much the point.
People who are not customers of your store are not obliged to financially support your chosen outdated business model.
So in short, you say "It's YOUR problem I live in the boonies, so i'm going to buy it from someone else." That is what i'm hearing, correct?
No. Well, that might be what you're hearing, but it's not what people are saying.
What is being said is that restricting sales to physical stores sucks for those who don't live near physical stores. That's not your problem. It's a problem, if a company chooses to restrict sales of its product in such a fashion.
Your problem is that you want people to come into your store to buy product. The long-distance customer's problem is that they don't want to, or can't.
The solution to both of those problems is to make the product available through as many different sales channels as can support it.
People say FLGS have to change how they do business in order to survive, but those people don't know what it takes to run one, or even how they should change. .
It's not necessary for someone to know what it takes to run a games store to figure out that if the current business model isn't sustainable then a new business model is required.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:33:57
Subject: Re:Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It seems to me that this move by Asmodee is similar to the music industry trying to curtail ticket scalpers. Asmodee sees some e-tailers as parasitic intermediaries who make their money buying FFG products wholesale and selling them at discounted retail prices. Since FFG has their own web store Asmodee would rather see consumers who are only online buyers to buy direct from FFG and pay MSRP for the products. Asmodee still wants to make money selling through distributors and getting the market exposure and penetration from being present in brick and mortar stores so they don't mind in store discounts.
Just like how concert promoters don't like seeing scalpers making profits from reselling tickets at higher prices Asmodee doesn't want online resellers making money that they feel they should make instead. The benefit of this new policy is that more online sales will go through their own web store, and their bigger retail partners like Target. Increased sales from FFG's web store should mean more profit than selling to online resellers.
The negatives of this new policy is that it increases the cost and time spent on purchases for the customers that have been using the online discount resellers. Increasing costs and time will likely cause some portion of their customer base to buy less. If it's easy and cheap to buy from online resellers it's easier for customers to impulse buy every new release or a lot of new releases. Increasing the costs in time and money to get new releases will force customers to decide just how badly they want to buy each new release and will likely pass on purchases that would have been made if the online discounters were still a viable option.
My issue with the policy is that it strikes me as Asmodee cutting off its nose to spite its face. I can understand the frustration with online discounters piggy backing on FFG to make money but ultimately FFG and Asmodee aren't harmed by those companies. Asmodee makes money when they sell products to distributors at wholesale prices. Whether the products go to a LGS' shelf or a online discounter's warehouse Asmodee made money off selling those products through distributors. If the products Asmodee sells to distributors are sold to consumers, regardless of which retailers consumers purchase them from, Asmodee benefits from those sales by having their products sold and used in games that build community support for more sales of more products.
To me, this new policy has very little to do with protecting brick and mortar stores, although that's a nice PR spin, and everything to do with Asmodee trying to wring as much profit as possible from online sales.
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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:38:27
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Mighty Kithkar
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I'm still waiting for a good explanation as to where the difference between an online store and the LGS around here lies.
Not a single one of these provides any kind of support for FFG products apart from selling them. Not even designated tables, since at best they have a bunch of tables for wargaming and a few flat tables that are reserved for MtG and YGO.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 21:57:34
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Here in the SF Bay Area, we have three FLGS's in one town, but only one town -- because the town supports warehouses and other cities are too expensive for a game store to operate in. So the problem for these stores, at least, isn't online competition, it's the cost of living, so to speak, for the business.
So if Asmodee is willing to pay for my FLGS's electrity bill... Automatically Appended Next Post: Red Harvest wrote:
I meant the other way around, that the Big Box stores may be pressuring Asmodee/ FFG to do this as a condition of stocking the games. I should have been clearer about that.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm reading the terms and can't find how Target, Walmart, and Amazon (non-third parties) wouldn't be able to sell games. Specifically, "To qualify as an online merchant, you will need to contribute either significant scale, unique service, or other exceptional differentiation." The terms aren't exactly easy to read, but my impression is that that the publisher's "exceptions" pretty much give them enough loopholes to select whom they want as a retailer offering a discount.
Anyone remember Mayfair? They're best known for their Catan games, and they did this *years* ago. And, yes, their games are showing up at Target and Walmart (?). Game publishers *have* wanted to penetrate into the mass-market big box stores for years, so Asmodee may be pulling a Mayfair. OTOH, This is not the only way to do this. SJG, for example, released a version of Munchkin that was only available at Target and Walmart (?). WotC's Arena of the Planewalker and HeroScape have Walmart-exclusive editions. Northstar Game's "Say Anything" can still be bought online at a deep discount.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/21 22:24:11
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 22:41:36
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Kovnik Obama wrote:
streamdragon wrote:
You argument would have been reasonable 20 years ago, before the insane rise of internet shopping. But this is 2015, and they're trying to retract something that already exists.
Internet discounters game the already prohibitive distribution practices of the industry. You may feel entitled to this advantageous mode of purchase, now that it exists, but the truth is that you simply aren't, and that the game producer may very well decides to alter distribution channels. That it already exists doesn't mean it should exist the way it does now.
streamdragon wrote:As to supporting LGS owners, essentially you are suggesting that if I want to play X-Wing, I either drive several hours out of my way for a discount, or I subsidize the existence of shops that I will never even see. Both are lunacy.
You aren't entitled to your discount. That you even can suggest otherwise shows how warped your view of consumers-producers relations are.
How is Miniature Market "gaming the already prohibitive distribution practices of the industry"? They have a physical storefront, sure, but also sell online to people (like myself) who are nowhere near that front. How is any online store that is purchasing their stock FROM FFG?
As to "entitlement', I said nothing about it. I'm suggesting there is nothing wrong with the status quo, because prior to Asmodee sticking it's schwanz into things, FFG obviously didn't have an issue with online retailers. You're the entitled one if you think everyone without a LGS should have to pay more, simply to support some brick and mortar store that they'll like never see, or even know exists.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/21 23:54:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:06:29
Subject: Re:Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Fixture of Dakka
West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA
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It has nothing at all to do with greed, especially in this case. Remember that, unlike GW, FFG does not sell directly to customers*. They're selling their products at the same price whether it's an online discount seller or a physical retail store buying them. The actual reason for this policy is that FFG recognizes the importance of physical stores in marketing and supporting their products. An online discount store is cheaper, but doesn't host tournaments, persuade new customers to buy stuff, put up a rack of games in a prominent location, etc. And if the online discount stores are free to undercut the people who are doing all the promotion and support those stores have much less incentive to stock FFG products. The real greed here is the customers who care more about saving 10% today than having a game to play in the future.
Yeah, well. Neither does any Friendly "local" game store within a 50 mile radius of me- all two of them, one of which carries less than Barnes and Noble.
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"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:19:40
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Gun Mage
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:19:55
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Neronoxx wrote:winterwolf wrote:Neronoxx wrote:
Amazon stays in business by running a deficit (losing money on every sale) but then generates a collosal amount of revenue from investors, keeping them in business.
In short, Amazon makes money by losing money. How do you expect any other store to compete?
Since it sounds like you have a game store, I'd expect you to know the difference between revenues and capital. That you don't is a bit worrisome.
It was late, and i was tired. Still, to make assumptions on one's knowledge from a single word is quite pathetic. I'll wager you are one of those individuals often called, "a know it all."
Not at all. Just someone who prefers people use terms correctly so I can follow what the feth they're talking about.
I'll humor you. You are upset that people may purchase products online and you see it as hurting your business and the business of fellow LGS. I agree it's bad form for people to walk in, kick the tires of a product, then leave and buy online. I try not to do that, whether it's games, clothing/shoes or other merchandise. For years I barely set foot in any LGS, even though there were some in the 30-minute range from me. They didn't offer me anything, 30-minutes was a significant drive just to browse, and my board game group met in someone's house. On the occasions I did go in to a store and they didn't have what I wanted in stock, I felt no obligation to put in an order, wait and make another trip. I wouldn't do that at a grocery store or department store, so why would I do it at a gaming store? If they did have something I wanted, then I'd pick it up.
Recently, I've started table top miniature gaming with some other locals and we have met for games at LGS. Now I try to buy something regularly and I am willing to put in a special order, since I know I'll be back within a couple of weeks for gaming. See how it works? The store is now providing me a service and I'm happy to buy from them.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/21 23:23:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:26:40
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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There should be no confusion - they confirmed what they said. Only a "select" few will be allowed to sell online, none of which will be FLGS.
Going forward, people should be supporting Target, Walmart and Barnes & Noble, or else buying direct from a distributor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:34:28
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Well these seem to be the significant sections of the clarification In the future, will I be able to find products from Asmodee North America (i.e. products from Asmodee Editions, Fantasy Flight Games, or Days of Wonder) online? We are keenly aware and we understand that not all consumers have access to, or that some prefer not to take advantage of, specialty retail game stores. Online shopping is a modern and convenient method of shopping, and Asmodee is committed to keeping this channel a viable and high-quality method of product delivery to consumers We intend to work with a number of exceptional authorized online dealers. We are confident that consumers will easily be able to find and acquire our products from a variety of online outlets. no surprise there, they'd already said they'd be working with 'exceptional' online sellers Some brick-and-mortar specialty retailers also sell online, how will this affect them? We recognize that these new policies come with implications for some retailers. One such change will be that authorized specialty retailers will agree not to sell Asmodee North America products online. That said, we hope the end result, i.e. enabling us to support them relative to other defined channels, will be a significant net improvement for specialty retailers overall. If your favoured store used to sell online it seems likely they'll have to stop.... but they hope the stores revenue will hold up by more instore sales How will this affect mass market outlets, such a Amazon, Target, or Barnes and Noble? We consider the mass/broad market to be its own unique channel of sale, one we want to be successful in its own right alongside our other successful channels of sale. There's no way we're prepared to loose out on these big volume sellers so they're fine and can carry on undercutting the FLGS we claim this policy will help out (I should think Amazon will basicially be that alone, rather than including marketplace sellers like now) Many specialty retailers have in-store loyalty or volume discounts, and many online dealers discount their product. In the new policies taking effect on April 1st, 2016, will you institute or impose official price floors or "minimum advertised price" policies on your authorized retailers? No. We're not going to impose a floor price (as we know Amazon, B&N, Target etc wouldn't stand for it, but just perhaps if you're a small speciality store who we carry on supplying for online sales because of your 'exception' nature, we might perhaps review that and since you're no longer special stop you selling online but overall less worrying than the original statement, I think prices are going up a bit, and availability will fall, but not to the extent the original statement seemed to suggest The sky hasn't fallen, but a fair few heavy clouds certainly have
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/21 23:37:28
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:38:07
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Gun Mage
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Assuming that CSI and MM are "exceptional", this policy seems to basically just be that small stores aren't allowed to sell online. It's kind of strange.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:41:52
Subject: Re:Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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Prestor Jon wrote:It seems to me that this move by Asmodee is similar to the music industry trying to curtail ticket scalpers. Asmodee sees some e-tailers as parasitic intermediaries who make their money buying FFG products wholesale and selling them at discounted retail prices. Since FFG has their own web store Asmodee would rather see consumers who are only online buyers to buy direct from FFG and pay MSRP for the products. Asmodee still wants to make money selling through distributors and getting the market exposure and penetration from being present in brick and mortar stores so they don't mind in store discounts.
Just like how concert promoters don't like seeing scalpers making profits from reselling tickets at higher prices Asmodee doesn't want online resellers making money that they feel they should make instead. The benefit of this new policy is that more online sales will go through their own web store, and their bigger retail partners like Target. Increased sales from FFG's web store should mean more profit than selling to online resellers.
The negatives of this new policy is that it increases the cost and time spent on purchases for the customers that have been using the online discount resellers. Increasing costs and time will likely cause some portion of their customer base to buy less. If it's easy and cheap to buy from online resellers it's easier for customers to impulse buy every new release or a lot of new releases. Increasing the costs in time and money to get new releases will force customers to decide just how badly they want to buy each new release and will likely pass on purchases that would have been made if the online discounters were still a viable option.
My issue with the policy is that it strikes me as Asmodee cutting off its nose to spite its face. I can understand the frustration with online discounters piggy backing on FFG to make money but ultimately FFG and Asmodee aren't harmed by those companies. Asmodee makes money when they sell products to distributors at wholesale prices. Whether the products go to a LGS' shelf or a online discounter's warehouse Asmodee made money off selling those products through distributors. If the products Asmodee sells to distributors are sold to consumers, regardless of which retailers consumers purchase them from, Asmodee benefits from those sales by having their products sold and used in games that build community support for more sales of more products.
To me, this new policy has very little to do with protecting brick and mortar stores, although that's a nice PR spin, and everything to do with Asmodee trying to wring as much profit as possible from online sales.
Exalted. Perfect summary.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:44:41
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Not strange at all. If you want to sell at Walmart, Target, or B&N, you do what they say. These Big Box stores aren't interested in customers buying from their onilne competitors, so demand exclusive sales of your product. They're already doing this with Mayfair Games, and WotC and SJG have had editions of their HeroScape, Munchkin, and Duel of the Planeswalkers available only at a Big Box store.
I'm thinking that this policy is meant to shut down MM, CSI, and Cardhaus. The "support your FLGS" is just a secondary effect slash smokescreen of Big Box telling a small games publisher to jump how high and said publisher saying, yes sir. It's an irritating evolution of the hobby game market as it attempts to go mainstream -- and, thankfully, not all publishers are going in this direction.
Somehow, I think the President of Asmodee's going to peel off his face mask and we'll see it's Jay Tummelson all along!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/21 23:49:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:47:03
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Douglas Bader
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OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:There's no way we're prepared to loose out on these big volume sellers so they're fine and can carry on undercutting the FLGS we claim this policy will help out (I should think Amazon will basicially be that alone, rather than including marketplace sellers like now)
On the other hand those high-volume "mainstream" stores will have less incentive to offer significant discounts if they're the only online stores, so we might expect to see the discount drop to something closer to the 10-20% that an average FLGS offers. Closing the gap makes it easier for the physical store to compete.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/21 23:50:50
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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The New Miss Macross!
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TheWaspinator wrote:Assuming that CSI and MM are "exceptional", this policy seems to basically just be that small stores aren't allowed to sell online. It's kind of strange. Yes, because the mom and pop stores that also happen to sell online at a reasonable discount of 10-20% are the ones that are slitting the throats of their fellow FLGS... not amazon on a daily basis at 30-40% off with free shipping or MM during 50% off sales (and routine 33% off prices). It's clearly the little guys that typically offer lesser discounts and get smaller sales volumes that are the easiest targets to push around.. I mean impediment to other little guys. This is games industry hypocrisy at its finest and most blatant. Automatically Appended Next Post: Peregrine wrote: OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:There's no way we're prepared to loose out on these big volume sellers so they're fine and can carry on undercutting the FLGS we claim this policy will help out (I should think Amazon will basicially be that alone, rather than including marketplace sellers like now) On the other hand those high-volume "mainstream" stores will have less incentive to offer significant discounts if they're the only online stores, so we might expect to see the discount drop to something closer to the 10-20% that an average FLGS offers. Closing the gap makes it easier for the physical store to compete. The high volume large discount retailers compete largely with each other to get to the bottom tolerable price, not with the local stores that just happen to sell online that this new policy both explicitly targets yet is meant to somehow protect. Amazon and Miniature Market will both be unaffected and I don't think the prices on either will change because they'll still be competing with each other in a race to the bottom. The gap will remain the same because your FLGS isn't competing with Jimbo's Hobby games in Idaho that offers 10-20% off; discount shoppers will still go to the big known names that offer the biggest discounts and avoid your FLGS. FFG is picking on the little guys who sell online because they can, not because they're the real problem. This is of course dependant on the bigger fish in the small hobby pond like Warstore and MM getting double super secret exceptional status. If they don't but B&N/Amazon/Target/etc get to do whatever they want and FFG just screwed over the entire actual hobby market, that would be even worse for all involved. Please note that I'm not trying to complain about or demonize any big market seller but rather pointing out that *IF* there is actually a problem then this new policy is *NOT* addressing the actual issue. If they really wanted to help FLGS by keeping margins higher, they'd cap online discounts FOR EVERYONE with no exceptions including Amazon, Target, B&N, and the bigger fish in the hobby pond like Warstore and MM. If Amazon or Target violated their 20% or whatever max discount, they'd have to cut them off permanently. Of course they won't do that because they don't want to risk the sales (and the loss of X-wing won't affect amazon's bottom line regardless in any meaningful way). They can however bully small retailers though who can't afford to fight back so have chosen to do so laughably under the guise of protecting the same little guys.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/12/22 00:09:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 00:26:50
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Peregrine wrote:On the other hand those high-volume "mainstream" stores will have less incentive to offer significant discounts if they're the only online stores, so we might expect to see the discount drop to something closer to the 10-20% that an average FLGS offers. Closing the gap makes it easier for the physical store to compete.
Well, although a quick scan of Amazon's prices for Catan show a minimal discount, a friend of mine *was* able to pick up Mayfair's Star Trek game for $11 at Target, a definite savings over the $35 price tag! Not much preservation of value, there!
I think Big Box stores are very much interested in moving product at prices consumers want. The BGG Hot Deals forum regularly mentions Target and Amazon for game discounts.
One thought, though, is that Mayfair Games has very few games in their product line, primarily Catan franchise games. Perhaps a consequence of Big Box sales is that Big Boxes will only carry a few of your products, causing you to focus on only one product line. To some extent, this is happening naturally with Steve Jackson Games with their Munchkin line (which also has (had?) exclusivity at Target with Munchkin: Legends). Also, distributors already do this with the conventional distributor-retail chain, in that they do not carry all lines a manufacturer makes.
Still one BGG'er said that market forces eventually overrule company policies, and WotC and WizKids had policies like this in the past. The players change, but the customers eventually get what they want.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/22 00:27:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 00:36:57
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Fixture of Dakka
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Korraz wrote:I'm still waiting for a good explanation as to where the difference between an online store and the LGS around here lies.
Not a single one of these provides any kind of support for FFG products apart from selling them. Not even designated tables, since at best they have a bunch of tables for wargaming and a few flat tables that are reserved for MtG and YGO.
You know there is a social part to gaming, right? meeting like minded people, getting information and people views on games, and most stores i went to don't mind which games you played as long as you bought something there once in a while.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 00:45:08
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Jehan-reznor wrote:
You know there is a social part to gaming, right? meeting like minded people, getting information and people views on games...
So, nothing that inherently requires you to be standing in a shop...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 00:50:12
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Douglas Bader
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ced1106 wrote:Well, although a quick scan of Amazon's prices for Catan show a minimal discount, a friend of mine *was* able to pick up Mayfair's Star Trek game for $11 at Target, a definite savings over the $35 price tag! Not much preservation of value, there!
I suspect that was a case of a one-time sale (for example, no longer stocking the game and trying to clear out the remaining inventory) rather than a regular price. Automatically Appended Next Post: insaniak wrote: Jehan-reznor wrote:
You know there is a social part to gaming, right? meeting like minded people, getting information and people views on games...
So, nothing that inherently requires you to be standing in a shop...
Not inherently. But, like it or not, that's how it works in the US.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/22 00:50:37
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:11:03
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Peregrine wrote:
Not inherently. But, like it or not, that's how it works in the US.
The fact that it currently works that way doesn't inherently make it something that is worth preserving. If more and more customers are doing it a different way, then sooner or later it becomes time to stop and have a long hard look at whether or not your current business model needs to change to match customers' current expectations.
The internet is a thing now. It's not going away. As a result, it's entirely possible that the days of US stores also being places to hang out and play games are numbered. That won't necessarily be the death-knell of gaming, as evidenced by most of the rest of the world where stores are not, and have never been, the place where most people play their games.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:12:25
Subject: Re:Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Fixture of Dakka
West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA
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On the other hand those high-volume "mainstream" stores will have less incentive to offer significant discounts if they're the only online stores, so we might expect to see the discount drop to something closer to the 10-20% that an average FLGS offers. Closing the gap makes it easier for the physical store to compete.
You guys are damn lucky if you have a FLGS that sells at any discount whatsoever. My favorite store, Discount Hobby, went out of business just after 3rd edition of 40K and everything local since has been full price.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/22 01:26:04
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:14:41
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Peregrine wrote:
Not inherently. But, like it or not, that's how it works in the US.
Not where I play in the US. Hint: its not in a store.
So, this is kind of like GW, except its not. Because its FFG.
I'll be interested in how this actually pans out, and how it affects my fairly large gaming group that plays Armada and X-wing (and none of us plays in a store).
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Legio Suturvora 2000 points (painted)
30k Word Bearers 2000 points (in progress)
Daemonhunters 1000 points (painted)
Flesh Tearers 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '02 52nd; Balt GT '05 16th
Kabal of the Tortured Soul 2000+ points (painted) - Balt GT '08 85th; Mechanicon '09 12th
Greenwing 1000 points (painted) - Adepticon Team Tourny 2013
"There is rational thought here. It's just swimming through a sea of stupid and is often concealed from view by the waves of irrational conclusions." - Railguns |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:28:18
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Peregrine wrote:Not inherently. But, like it or not, that's how it works in the US.
except not. More people will always be gaming, whether tabletop or board games, with their friends in someone's home. Not a gaming/hobby shop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:35:02
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Douglas Bader
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streamdragon wrote:except not. More people will always be gaming, whether tabletop or board games, with their friends in someone's home. Not a gaming/hobby shop.
But how do those people get introduced to the game? How do people who don't have any gaming experience yet meet people to play with? Automatically Appended Next Post: insaniak wrote:The fact that it currently works that way doesn't inherently make it something that is worth preserving. If more and more customers are doing it a different way, then sooner or later it becomes time to stop and have a long hard look at whether or not your current business model needs to change to match customers' current expectations.
The internet is a thing now. It's not going away. As a result, it's entirely possible that the days of US stores also being places to hang out and play games are numbered. That won't necessarily be the death-knell of gaming, as evidenced by most of the rest of the world where stores are not, and have never been, the place where most people play their games.
Sure, it can change, but we have to be realistic about this: it's not how things work right now, and it's uncertain if or how things might change in the future. And we really have to ask which is more likely here:
1) The US is moving to a "buy online, play at a gaming club" kind of community and business model where physical stores are just a place to pick up a box of something if it's convenient and in-store gaming is limited to occasional demo games of a new product.
or
2) Stores are important and will continue to be important for the foreseeable future, and this is just a case of short-sighted customers chasing the lowest possible prices no matter how much it hurts them in the long run.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/22 01:39:25
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:54:43
Subject: Re:Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Fixture of Dakka
West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA
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But how do those people get introduced to the game? How do people who don't have any gaming experience yet meet people to play with?
What ypu do is find the gaming hobby for yourself, and then spend nearly 20 years mostly modelling/painting and rarely playing, and buying, painting, and providing both sides so you can cajole your close buddies and later your wife into gaming with you when you can, and lamenting how it's hard to find a gaming group firmly in the middle of BFE, Michigan.
Wait.....that's me.
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"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:55:49
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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Fixture of Dakka
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How much do these huge online discounts end up being anyway? (Including taxes etc on the final price).
Unless it's say, a once or twice a year sale in the UK (EG, Armada core set at 52% RRP on Amazon last week) or an inventory sell off, I usually don't see more than, say, a 15% discount at the absolute most in the UK.
And if they are particularly low, it's either a pre-order incentive, or, like in Amazon's case, a Loss Leader situation of very select products (EG the core set game of Armada or X-Wing), in which case, they probably aren't making money from it and are banking on future sales of the expansions.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/22 01:57:28
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/12/22 01:58:22
Subject: Asmodee/FFG to block cheap online game sales
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The New Miss Macross!
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Peregrine wrote: streamdragon wrote:except not. More people will always be gaming, whether tabletop or board games, with their friends in someone's home. Not a gaming/hobby shop.
But how do those people get introduced to the game? How do people who don't have any gaming experience yet meet people to play with?
You realize that gamers aren't exclusively located in stores, right? We do leave the store occasionally in most cases. You can meet gamers online on places like Dakka after a simple google search or just talk geek with a coworker who introduces you to gaming or go to a scifi con that happens to have a gaming room. I got into gaming in high school when I saw someone reading a Robotech RPG book in the aisle next to me and mentioned that I was a fan of the cartoon years earlier. I didn't play in a games store for almost a decade after that and the only store I had within bicycle riding distance for years was a crowded mall novelty store with a single 6ft rack of RPG titles and a 2ft rack of minis. They had more space devoted to lava lamps then all tabletop gaming combined.
Sure, it can change, but we have to be realistic about this: it's not how things work right now, and it's uncertain if or how things might change in the future. And we really have to ask which is more likely here:
1) The US is moving to a "buy online, play at a gaming club" kind of community and business model where physical stores are just a place to pick up a box of something if it's convenient and in-store gaming is limited to occasional demo games of a new product.
or
2) Stores are important and will continue to be important for the foreseeable future, and this is just a case of short-sighted customers chasing the lowest possible prices no matter how much it hurts them in the long run.
I agree with you in principle and firmly am a proponent of buying the games where you play those games as a matter of course but this policy does very little to encourage that. The folks looking for the biggest discounts won't have to change a thing as apparently every big box store and amazon get an automatic pass and likely the biggest hobby specific online retailers will get one as well. This punishes the mid to small level sellers that are simply the easiest to boss around, not the folks causing the most "problems".
This is the online retailer equivalent of an area with a crime rate perceived as too high... so the government decides to up the penalty for easy to catch misdemeanors to the death penalty while simultaneously deciding that felonies are too hard to prosecute so they get a pass.
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