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I'm thinking about picking up the game, but I'd rather not start entirely new armies in a different scale.

I used to play WWII in the early 2000's with a rules set called Battleground WWII by a company called Easy Eights Productions out of Lenexa, Ks. They had rules for 28mm and 20mm in the rulebook and the guys I played with were using 20mm. I already have a TON of infantry and vehicles for US, German, Russian, and British armies in 20mm / 1:72 scale.

Does anyone with experience with Bolt Action know if it will work in 20mm / 1:72? If not, can it be ported over without too much difficulty?


Ghidorah

I've played tons of it in 15mm with no problems. Kept all ranges the same. So I don't see how 20mm would be any different.

I think it looks better played in 15mm, or even 10mm.

I have played Tank War games at 1/72nd scale. The smaller models and terrain really give a feel of long ranged battles.

Some people at my LGS are talking about playing large Tank Wars games in 15mm. I think it's a great idea, you could buy a 2,000 point army for less than $100 plus a lot of us have 15mm minis from FoW.

15mm with no conversions at all? I was just watching a demo video on youtube and they said LMG/MMG are 30" range. That's at 28mm. Seems like 15mm would make that a ridiculously long range and render them more effective than the rules intended? SMGs shooting 15" seem pretty long when scaled to a 15mm guy. I dunno. Maybe not. I suppose I'd have to play it first and see for myself. Thanks for the reply!


Ghidorah


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 master of ordinance wrote:
I have played Tank War games at 1/72nd scale. The smaller models and terrain really give a feel of long ranged battles.

Exactly. My collection is 20mm / 1:72. Precisely what I'm asking the original question for.


Ghidorah

Probably see how it works and go from there

Albino Squirrel wrote:
I think it looks better played in 15mm, or even 10mm.

I agree. 30" is still not that far for an LMG to fire in 15mm. Hell. Sometimes I don't really like the 24" rifle range in 28mm, even though I understand its an abstraction for effective range.

Never played it in 10 but doubt it would feel weird even there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/577135.page

Just for reference.

Well our Battlegroup WW2 rules written for 20mm & 15mm have longer ranges than Bolt Action so I wouldnt see why the need to change anything would exist with Bolt Action...

But then I have never played it. Not my cup of tea.

Big P wrote:
But then I have never played it. Not my cup of tea.

If you don't mind, could you elaborate a bit? I would MUCH rather play Battleground WWII, but the guys I used to play that with are scattered to the winds and your typical FLGS 40k crowd is completely uninterested in historicals. Especially with the sheer amount of detail in the rules. I figure it would be easier to get people to play WWII if it was more streamlined a game in a similar vein as 40k...


Ghidorah


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also like to mention that my only experience with wargames under 20mm / 1:72 is Epic 40,000 and Blue Skies WWII aerial combat in 1/300. This is why I wasn't sure how weapon ranges would translate into 15mm and beyond.


Ghidorah

Not sure what you want me to elaborate on Im afraid...

Bolt Action is more a game of the movie of WW2 to what I have seen. It allows alot of flexibility in what players choose to take, sometimes verging on the ahistorical at times, and some weapons dont function in quite their historical manner.

I cant offer anymore Im afraid as I have never played it or seen a book. It just doesnt appeal to me as I prefer something as fast playing but one that has a basis grounded more in the historical side of things.

I write Battlegroup with Warwick Kinrade (who also wrote the German Army book for Bolt Action) and if Bolt Action is the game version of the Dirty Dozen, then I guess Battlegroup is the game version of Band of Brothers.

Both are of course perfectly adequate games, and which one someone prefers comes down to what you personally want from your gaming experience. Both are list and points based games, and both can be used to play historical scenarios. Battlegroup was always aimed at 20mm and 15mm players, and as such generally has more troops involved than a game of Bolt Action. Two different beasts really but both are easy to pick up.

If you want to entice people from 40k for example, Bolt Action offers a degree of familiarity as it uses 28mm figures in a format of rules and 'codex' that many will feel at home with. After that any similarity ends really. Bolt Action isnt 40k.

I have played BA in 20mm with no conversion and loved it. Although I love 28mm figs, I would really recommend buying WW2 stuff in 20mm.

As for comparing BA and BG, first for full disclosure let me say that I actually love both systems. They are not in any way interchangeable. Playing one always makes me appreciate the other even more. In the most general terms, the games work at different scales. Speaking cinematically, BA games begin in media res and constitute an "extreme closeup" of the action. I'd say an entire game of BA represents about 15 to 20 minutes of fighting. BG takes a slightly broader view but is no less exciting. BG has greater granularity, giving the players more tactical traction in terms of decision making. If someone put a gun to my head and made me chose only one to play for the rest of my life, it would certainly be BG. That said, I think BA is more conducive to pick-up play at the LGS and may therefore be more suitable for your purposes.

FLGS started in 15mm, mostly as we played FoW so had the vehicles and generally enough spare infantry to do a force, plus all the terrain we could eat.

Worked very well, no rule changes, inc. no changes to measurements.

Then they all swapped to 28mm, as you do..

Advantage to 15mm, especially if no one else plays the game, is the low cost of having multiple forces so others can borrow - you get a game and eventually get them hooked.

Only played one tank game in 28mm, which had a lot of daft rules added and was played on a large table, a pure tank v tank game should be something like 6mm really.

FYI - Tank Wars is not a pure tank v tank game.

Ranges for weapons are an abstraction of line of sight, changing battlefield conditions, visual range, reaction time, and more.

At 28mm 24" feels short for rifles, given a 6" move, at 15mm it will still be the same with a 6" move. Visually it will look a little different, but game-play wouldn't change any. The base sizes don't really matter in Bolt Action per say.

I have 28mm American and British Airborne, and 15mm USMC. While I've haven't played with the USMC yet, my single based USMC will play fine against my opponents multi based Flames of War Japanese.

I know when i was studying up on the game before i started playing i read somewhere that Alessio said feel free to adjust the ranges if you wish to do so.

 Ghidorah wrote:
15mm with no conversions at all? I was just watching a demo video on youtube and they said LMG/MMG are 30" range.
Ghidorah

Except you heard wrong. Light and medium MG can shoot up to "36" whilst SMGs get only "12" range, though "30" is correct for the BARs most Polish and US infantry units get instead of LMGs.

 col. krazy kenny wrote:
I know when i was studying up on the game before i started playing i read somewhere that Alessio said feel free to adjust the ranges if you wish to do so.

At 28mm, I've wondered about using the existing ranges as the short ranges, then either line of sight is long (most weapons would still be fully lethal on a 4'x6' board, even shotguns aren't the 5 feet away from you only weapons gaming/movies like to make them) or up to double range is long.

 sing your life wrote:
Except you heard wrong. Light and medium MG can shoot up to "36" whilst SMGs get only "12" range...

Duly noted.



Ghidorah